Author Topic: Bush in Iraq (Read 8928 times)

Beers · « **Reply #60 on:** September 05, 2007, 06:01:23 PM »

I'm seeing a lot of "cut and run" this and "winning the war" that... "surrender monkeys" and what have you...

Can anyone give some idea as to what conditions must be met before we can declare victory? Or what the current mission or plan of action in Iraq is? We're there... we're dieing, they're dieing... whats getting done? I hear so much about the importance of completing our mission in Iraq... what the hell is it? What do we have to do before we can bring our Soldiers home?

ironglow · « **Reply #61 on:** September 05, 2007, 06:10:52 PM »

Beers;

Do you think the war on terror is just a "half hour interlude" ?

Agree with him or not..the President was right when he said this fight is for at least one or two generations..

Get ready for a long fight... or hand everything over to the terrorists RIGHT NOW !

To simply "declare" victory is just about as sensible as me "declaring" that I am a billionaire...easy to do but a bit more difficult to back up..

Sorry; VICTORY cannot simply be "declared"..VICTORY must be WON !

Just ask any of the elite troops..Rangers, Special Forces, Marine Spec Ops or Seals..they will tell you the same...

I really expect some draw-down early next year as the new Iraqi govt gains it's feet.

This process is not an "overnighter"..we still have troops in Haiti and Kosovo, where Clinton sent them...

I find the claims of "how long ? " a bit suspect..seeing as we are still have forces in Germany and Japan..62 years after that war ended !

jh45gun · « **Reply #62 on:** September 05, 2007, 06:44:46 PM »

Ironglow, Powderman, 30.36man, It is a fact that half our country are liberals or at least misinformed democrats who suppoorted Gore and Kerry the last two elections that should tell you what their mindsets are. I am constantly amaized that on gun forums there are some who just do not get that the dems want to take away our gun rights and support these folks. Or their hatred of Bush makes them put on blinders that they cannot see anything else. Fred Thompson declared tonite and said a lot of good stuff about the war on terror. This guy has it together. Though some will not admit it here as their golden boy is Ron Paul I think Thompson would have a broader appeal and he tells it like it is yet he still may appeal to a broader base like Reagan did.

jh45gun · « **Reply #63 on:** September 05, 2007, 06:54:56 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on September 05, 2007, 06:10:52 PM

Beers;

Do you think the war on terror is just a "half hour interlude" ?

Agree with him or not..the President was right when he said this fight is for at least one or two generations..

Get ready for a long fight... or hand everything over to the terrorists RIGHT NOW !

To simply "declare" victory is just about as sensible as me "declaring" that I am a billionaire...easy to do but a bit more difficult to back up..

Sorry; VICTORY cannot simply be "declared"..VICTORY must be WON !

Just ask any of the elite troops..Rangers, Special Forces, Marine Spec Ops or Seals..they will tell you the same...

I really expect some draw-down early next year as the new Iraqi govt gains it's feet.

This process is not an "overnighter"..we still have troops in Haiti and Kosovo, where Clinton sent them...

I find the claims of "how long ? " a bit suspect..seeing as we are still have forces in Germany and Japan..62 years after that war ended !

People have damn short memories after 911 Bush said this was going to be a LONG HAUL and it would not be easy. He stressed that alot. Of course at the time emotions were flying high and the Patriotism High was at a all time high even by the liberals as they did not want to appear un-patriotic. Those that remember his words know he was right and it would not be an easy fight this is going to be a long hard battle world wide before it is over if it ever gets over and having our country divided on the issue sure as hell does not help. As a nation our citizens have gotten soft compared to our forfathers even from our grandfathers time or some of us that our dads were born early in this century or the end of the last one. Nowdays if things do not go exactly like folks want them to be they get disatisfied fast and of course blame some one else it is always easier to blame some one else than your own self. I agree with you guys who support GWB and the war and I laugh at those who criticise as they come off as never making a mistake which we all know every one does. Oh and good pic of your grandson Ironglow. I salute him and the others of his ilk who fight to keep us free.

Beers · « **Reply #64 on:** September 06, 2007, 03:46:04 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on September 05, 2007, 06:10:52 PM

Beers;

Do you think the war on terror is just a "half hour interlude" ?

Agree with him or not..the President was right when he said this fight is for at least one or two generations..

Get ready for a long fight... or hand everything over to the terrorists RIGHT NOW !

To simply "declare" victory is just about as sensible as me "declaring" that I am a billionaire...easy to do but a bit more difficult to back up..

Sorry; VICTORY cannot simply be "declared"..VICTORY must be WON !

Just ask any of the elite troops..Rangers, Special Forces, Marine Spec Ops or Seals..they will tell you the same...

I really expect some draw-down early next year as the new Iraqi govt gains it's feet.

This process is not an "overnighter"..we still have troops in Haiti and Kosovo, where Clinton sent them...

I find the claims of "how long ? " a bit suspect..seeing as we are still have forces in Germany and Japan..62 years after that war ended !

Well, that's a rather long winded way of not answering my question... what do we have to do to "WIN" victory? I didn't expect that it would be an overnight thing... It's just that there don't seem to be any clear objectives for our military presence there. Just a lot of vague, emotionally charged rhetoric. I'm don't necessarily advocate pulling out of Iraq, but if we're going to be there, someone should at least be able to tell me what it is they're supposed to be accomplishing.

jh45gun · « **Reply #65 on:** September 06, 2007, 06:40:25 AM »

Well for one they are helping rebuild the country, Hospitals, schools, Military, Law Enforcement. Other issues like Government and getting the different factions to get along are more difficult. As far as winning goes your asking a tough question as pretty tough to fight some one who hates you for what or who you are and has been taught that from birth. After reading the book "Lone Survivor" I realize that not all these folks hate us as some of the tribesmen in Afganistan saved Marcus Luttrell from the Taliban even though some of their tribe support the Taliban. Still since they do not wear uniforms lke regular soldiers it is hard to figure out who to trust. Lets face it the Muslums have been war like for centuries so your not going to change them completely and Bush said this was going to be a long drawn out war he was right. We did not ask for this war but we have to fight it where ever it takes us or we will be fighting it here.

ironglow · « **Reply #66 on:** September 06, 2007, 06:47:13 AM »

  Beers;

  Clearly, the military dilemma is being solved..the political solution is a bit more "iffy"..but it will perhaps be well on it's way come spring .

I did answer your question in part..don't expect ALL US troops out of Iraq anytime soon ! I have already pointed out that we still have troops in Germany, Japan, Haiti and Kosovo...some 62 years after WW2..

   I viewed the tail end of the Presidential debates on Fox last night. All but one of the candidates gave rather well thought out answers to the very question you asked .
   Except for one, not all were in perfect agreement, but were close to each other . The two most competent of either the Republicans or Democrats, to discuss the military/war issues , (Hunter & McCain) were almost lock-step in their assessments.

   There was even one candidate that advocates abolishing the CIA, FBI, wire taps, cyber watch and any other intelligence gathering capabilitiies, apparently preferring to be blind to the enemy's intentions. When asked what he intended to do top keep track of enemy
operatives..he had no clear answer.

Gov Mike Huckabee took him to task for that and his other " divide America " attitudes..

In no way, will he be the Republican nominee..so he may well continue in his "divide America" oddessy...

   So, if you wanted some fairly clear answers to your initial question...I hope you did not miss the debate..

   BTW: Fred Thompson was not in the debate lineup..but I understand he is primarily in agreement with Hunter & McCain..

30-06man · « **Reply #67 on:** September 06, 2007, 10:02:20 AM »

tmz whats wrong with fox news... maybe its there not bias like others. they show both sides. the war is what it is and needs to be won for the safty of america. i don't like dems they are against guns and every thing they are communist of the modern day! the war is going to right way people who belive the dems are no better than they are those are the ones who were "brainwashed"!

Dee · « **Reply #68 on:** September 06, 2007, 11:01:58 AM »

Fazak, some people ACTUALLY BELIEVE that you can have a democratic government in an Islamic run country, and for some reason believe that Iraq was responsible for 911, and that if we "fight them over there" they won't come here.
If all the DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE were piled in their living room floor, they would still not be able to admit that GW, screwed up. The WORLD knows, and over 70% of their fellow Americans know, but they believe that THEY, thru watching the evening news, have the truth, and the rest of the WORLD, and most Americans are wrong. Never mind that our so called allies are pulling out their troops as fast as they can find excuses, which by the way INCLUDES ENGLAND.
Perhaps when the body count of American troops reaches a sufficient number, they will be satisfied, that the OBVIOUS is at last OBVIOUS. It took 53,000, before someone finally took us out of the last mistake, and LBJ's conscience wouldn't allow him to run again.

I have noticed that Presidents whom have been in war, are not as quick to start one, and those whom have not, are. I have noticed these same traits among other men, but seen damn little fighting from them. So let us continue to ignore the facts, and LAUD the grandstanding from a "rich college boy president" where in reality, there were so many fighters in the air, and missiles on standby, that to cough would have been dangerous. Give the little "%#$%!" an M4, and let him follow my son on a patrol in Baghdad, where my son and others in the 82nd are doing 2 missions a day, and being told to "get out of our country" by the IRAQIS. Give him an M4, and let him see the truth, that it is in fact! Iraqis killing Iraqis!

30-06man · « **Reply #69 on:** September 06, 2007, 11:48:35 AM »

yeah i go into the woods to hunt which is my right and the dems don't see it that way. i do watch the bias cnn to hear both sides. although i will be voting republican either fred thompson or mike hucklybe

ironglow · « **Reply #70 on:** September 06, 2007, 12:12:03 PM »

TM7;

Oops ! You just tipped your hand !

Some folks figured you for a closet liberal..I made no such judgement..

Then you come up wit the following..

/quote]
.
In my opinion Fox News is the most biased insipid mind controlling propaganda outlet on tel-a-version. This starts at Rupert Murdoch's pornography empire and ends at his membership in the CFR. Everything they do is purely neocon and NWO. Their so-called opposing viewpoint spots are textbook dialectical exercizes to lead the viewer in the desired third direction.
...TM7
[/quote]

To accuse FOX of being so biased and not even mention ABC, CBS, NBC or CNN...speaks volumes..

Dee · « **Reply #71 on:** September 06, 2007, 12:22:03 PM »

The real truth of the matter is, that you can get ANY VIEW YOU WANT, simply by choosing the right news channel. Left right or in the middle. THEY ALL have an agenda, and RATINGS ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE TRUTH.

Fazak · « **Reply #72 on:** September 06, 2007, 12:24:04 PM »

Another good article on the matter.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Ron-Paul-Fundraising---Military-Personnel-Want-Us-Out-of-Iraq&id=656227

An excerpt:

Ron Paul Fundraising - Military Personnel Want Us Out of Iraq

If you were to look at the latest fundraising numbers for the second quarter of 2007, you would see that military personnel donated to the Ron Paul campaign in the largest number.

Aside from success online, he has the most meetup groups and volunteers of every other campaign. The military likely knows something the rest of America soon has yet to find out.

30-06man · « **Reply #73 on:** September 06, 2007, 01:20:31 PM »

you know fazak the ones i know and its many want to go back to go and win.. you just don't get it i guess. part of the person who fought dies when we give up!!

Fazak · « **Reply #74 on:** September 06, 2007, 01:40:03 PM »

It's not a football game,.. it's the nation's foreign policy,.. and the policy which led up to the war in Iraq is based on deception and manipulation of the American people,...... and the whole world knows it.

,.. and it's damaging this country in ways that haven't been seen before.

30-06man · « **Reply #75 on:** September 06, 2007, 01:56:12 PM »

sure its the country while you all take pride in hurting the whole world the rest of us are tring to make it day to day worrying about terriosts

30-06man · « **Reply #76 on:** September 06, 2007, 02:46:07 PM »

hahaha you must be confused!! were not brainwashed! the dems are with all there crooked ways! they have got you brainwashed!! they don't want to be safe. they are STUPID! unfornatualty they will do anything to gain powder and control people like remote robats. the terriost snuk by us before but you wouldn't remember 9/11! they got past us then and more since then. i think they would and will do it again unless the dems get off their butts and help!

ironglow · « **Reply #77 on:** September 06, 2007, 02:48:51 PM »

Note;

Again, not a note of condemnation for the liberal media..

Such as CBS, and NY Times that have been proven to be liars...Tsk Tsk ..

30-06man · « **Reply #78 on:** September 06, 2007, 02:54:28 PM »

yeah we all know that even he does. a liberal which always makes them right and us wrong. they will make up stuff they are the lowest of the lowes you can guaranty that

Dee · « **Reply #79 on:** September 06, 2007, 04:17:25 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on September 06, 2007, 02:48:51 PM

Note;

Again, not a note of condemnation for the liberal media..

Such as CBS, and NY Times that have been proven to be liars...Tsk Tsk ..

NOTE!

Ironglow, what part of my statement did you not understand, when I said ALL the news medias have an agenda. Some of you guys read things upside down or something. You like Fox because they like Bush. Fox is no more honest than the rest. Everyone has their favorite news station and they believe THEIRS is the only right one. They're all a sham going for ratings. Sometimes I think some of you guys are visually deaf, when you read and TOTALLY MISS A STATEMENT, and come up with such a conclusion.

3030man if you think us invading Iraq is gonna stop terrorism when they didn't have ANYTHING to do with 911, you need to get under the bed and read some old newspapers and catch up on what REALLY HAPPENED. Worrying day to day about terrorism.

I worry day to day about my son in a war that makes no sense, and the realization that OVER 70% of Americans AGREE, and the whole damn WORLD AGRESS, but a college boy whom never fired a shot in anger can't swallow his pride, and say he made a mistake. Then there are those lemmings that follow him. I would again INVITE ANYONE 42 years old and younger, go and fight for the cause you so deeply believe in. Our troops could use some rest.

Heavy C · « **Reply #80 on:** September 06, 2007, 04:36:16 PM »

Quote from: Dee on September 06, 2007, 12:22:03 PM

The real truth of the matter is, that you can get ANY VIEW YOU WANT, simply by choosing the right news channel. Left right or in the middle. THEY ALL have an agenda, and RATINGS ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE TRUTH.

Boy ain't that the truth!

Cut it out Dee! You're scaring me!

powderman · « **Reply #81 on:** September 06, 2007, 04:49:16 PM »

I'm really fed up with some of you saying, or implying that this is GWs war, he didn't start it. A group of Godless, subhuman, SOBS screaming allah akhbar did as they murdered 3,000 innocent Americans.Surely you read about it, it was in all the papers. I can still see those poor folks careening wildly as they jumped to their death to keep from burning alive. I can still see the workers walking around with buckets collecting body parts. I can close my eyes and hear the screams of those being burned alive. I can almost smell the stench of the corpses as they waited to be reclaimed and buried. I can still see the Godless ones dancing in the street and celebrating this tragedy around the world. You people want to blame somebody??? Blame the Godless, subhuman, SOBS that did this, not GW. POWDERMAN.

jh45gun · « **Reply #82 on:** September 06, 2007, 05:36:11 PM »

Quote from: powderman on September 06, 2007, 04:49:16 PM

I'm really fed up with some of you saying, or implying that this is GWs war, he didn't start it. A group of Godless, subhuman, SOBS screaming allah akhbar did as they murdered 3,000 innocent Americans.Surely you read about it, it was in all the papers. I can still see those poor folks careening wildly as they jumped to their death to keep from burning alive. I can still see the workers walking around with buckets collecting body parts. I can close my eyes and hear the screams of those being burned alive. I can almost smell the stench of the corpses as they waited to be reclaimed and buried. I can still see the Godless ones dancing in the street and celebrating this tragedy around the world. You people want to blame somebody??? Blame the Godless, subhuman, SOBS that did this, not GW. POWDERMAN.

I agree Powderman but don't waste your breath they are blinded by their hatred of Bush to make any sense out of the situation.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #83 on:** September 06, 2007, 05:43:22 PM »

As I recall the terrorist were in Afghanistan, not Iraq. This war in Iraq is about a regime change, nothing more. Terrorism was a smoke screen. But what to do now that Bush has started this war and he did start it? Certainly can't cut and run again. Seems like this country never learns to keep it's nose out of other country's politics. One of the really sad things was that the congress supported him and gave him the go ahead right up to the first attack then didn't have the balls to back him any more.

If this was truly about terrorism, why did we go to Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia and Iran? Because Iraq was not about terrorism, it was about regime change. Now we are in a quagmire that won't end until we kill all the Muslims, good and bad. I would give the guy credit for one thing. Unlike Clinton, when we got attacked he responded hard. I believe the only reason we did get attacked was because Clinton didn't respond at all.

jh45gun · « **Reply #84 on:** September 06, 2007, 07:08:48 PM »

I agree with some of what you say Don but Bush JR did not start it Sr. did and he should have finished it then which he did not do which was a big mistake. As far as Terrorist goes Sadamn was his kids were chemical Ali was and countless others. There is not one muslum country over there that is not guilty of harboring terrorist. I am not that impressed that we play footsie with Saudia Arabia either.

30-06man · « **Reply #85 on:** September 07, 2007, 01:38:02 AM »

if you belive that there was no terrisom in iraq then your crazy. there was terrosm there and in afganstan. were spreading our forces the fact is we have no clue were bin ladin is!! he may be in iraq. were figting terrisost. i guess if you don't think that we need to be there you like the terriost and you didn't care when 9/11 happened. the iraq war is a global war not just one were fighting.

alsaqr · « **Reply #86 on:** September 07, 2007, 04:33:30 AM »

On 9/11 the US was attacked by Saudis trained in Afghanistan by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi: At least 15 of the hijackers were Saudi. Despite the WTC having been previously attacked in 1993, the so-called US "intelligence agencies" failed to detect the 9/11 plot. Instead of going in with enough troops to clean up the Afghan cesspool, Bush attacked Iraq. The southern part of Afghanistan is currently controlled by the Taliban and al Queda.

In a few days bin Laden will commemorate the sixth anniversary of his coup with an new movie of himself. Personally, i wonder just how hard the administration wants to find bin Laden. Here we have a skinny 6' 8" Arab on dialysis who the so called "intelligence" agencies allowed to escape early in the Afghan War. The man has a 50 million dollar reward on his head. Most Arabs would sell their mothers, aunts, cousins and sisters for $500. Could it be that the white house neo-cons think that bin Laden is more valuable alive as a propaganda tool than he would be dead.

In a very recent poll 54 % of those polled believe that the US will never locate bin Laden, 42% think that he will be located.

As far as "cut and run" goes, just wait until about May of next year and watch congressional Republicans scream to get the troops out of Iraq. \

The whole idea of a democracy in Arabia is a crack dream.

Retired US Army M/Sgt.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #87 on:** September 07, 2007, 05:34:35 AM »

Quote from: alsaqr on September 07, 2007, 04:33:30 AM

As far as "cut and run" goes, just wait until about May of next year and watch congressional Republicans scream to get the troops out of Iraq. \

Retired US Army M/Sgt.

I sure wouldn't want to be standing by the door!

gypsyman · « **Reply #88 on:** September 07, 2007, 05:42:35 AM »

Why do some of you, still not get it. In Ireland, the Protestants and the Catholics were going at it. The 2 warring factions were both Irish, it was their religion that was the cause of the fight. Here, their nationality doesn't mean a damn thing. It's their religion that spurs on the fighting. Saudi Arabia has already put in jail/prison, alot more terrorists than we ever will. They understand that their country is more likely to get attacked than we are. If our gov't fails in keeping out these terrorists, which takes in FBI,CIA, and Homeland Security, and a few others, along with local police and LE, the results could be disastrous. Not even talking a nuke, but a large conventional bomb, at a stock car race, NFL game could kill more people in 5-10 minute's than in 4 years of war. The days of isolationism are long gone. Air travel, the internet, cell phone, we can't just hide behind 2 oceans any more. If we wait for them to get to our shore's, which I believe their already here, but the war can disrupt their plans, we might possibly stop another 9/11. I don't want Americans to die any more that the next guy, but if somebody in 1938 stopped Germany, might have been alot different between 1941 and 1945! gypsyman

alsaqr · « **Reply #89 on:** September 07, 2007, 06:01:13 AM »

"If our gov't fails in keeping out these terrorists, which takes in FBI,CIA, and Homeland Security, and a few others, along with local police and LE, the results could be disastrous"

Unfortunately, our government is no more prepared today than it was on 9/11. When the neo-con in charge of the Feel Good Homeland Insecurity Dep't. lobbies congress to grant amnesty to illegals who cross the Mexican border we do not have security: We have a total joke. It is a fact that terrorists have been caught crossing the Mexican border into the US. How many got through?

Our country is in a position to have our foreign policy dictated by China. China owns 900 billion dollars of US debt, thanks to voo doo percolater economics. Lots of you whine about socialism in the US but you have no problem financing the build-up of the Chinese army. To those who say "we need to fight them over there so we do not have to fight them here", i say that they are already here. 1. The Chinese are here dominating our economy and our government. 2. In the name of cheap labor, terrorists are sneaking across our unguarded boarders.