Am I understanding this right?

[DalesCarpentry]

I may be forced to hunt with my 243 this deer season. I understand that the general rule of thumb for the energy of a bullet to have at least 1,000 Foot pounds to be considered adequate bullet for deer. Here is the information for the Hornady 100 grain ammo.                                                        .243 Win., 100 gr. BTSP 8046
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2960/1945 2728/1653 2508/1397 2299/1173 2099/978 1910/810
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.60 0.00 -7.10 -20.90 -42.50
Accordingng to this I could shoot a deer out to about 400 yards. Would you consider neck shots at the base of the skull to probably be the best shot  at longer ranges? I will probably will not be shooting any more than 300 yards though. Do you feel that heart lung shots placed well would be the way to go for under 300 yards? Any of you guy's that hunt deer with a 243 please feel free to chime in. Thanks Dale

[poncaguy]

No..........................heart-lung shot at that range............

[DalesCarpentry]

Also you guy's that do hunt deer with your 243. Where do you aim? What has been your best shot placement to drop in 1 shot?

[DalesCarpentry]

No..........................heart-lung shot at that range............

At what ranges are heart lung shots effective then? Dale

[poncaguy]

Out to 400. with a 270, with a 243 , probably 300-350, never used  243 at those ranges though. If I think my shots are going to be at long ranges, I use my 270 or 270WSM-300WSM...............I would recommend 260-7mm-08 over 243. BUT, if the 243  was all I had I sure use it. ( in fact, I just got a Remington 6mm, which is a little hotter than a 243,I use on does this fall)

[DalesCarpentry]

Out to 400. with a 270, with a 243 , probably 300-350, never used  243 at those ranges though. If I think my shots are going to be at long ranges, I use my 270 or 270WSM-300WSM...............I would recommend 260-7mm-08 over 243. BUT, if the 243  was all I had I sure use it. ( in fact, I just got a Remington 6mm, which is a little hotter than a 243,I use on does this fall)

I kind of figured that 300 to 350 yards is about the max any ways. I would still like to know at what ranges people take heart lung shots with this caliber?   Dale

[Smokin Joe]

That "rule of thumb" gets blown out the window when you consider  that more deer have probably been taken with the .44-40 than with any other caliber. Shot placement is what it's all about.
 Heart/lung is your best bet from 400 on down, assuming you're using a good bullet for the size animal you're looking for. Besides that, it's a much bigger target than a head/neck shot.

 I took a lung shot at 325 with an 85 Speer boat tail........pole-axed the deer.

[DalesCarpentry]

Thanks for the information. Don't you think the 30-06 or the 30-30 has probably taken more deer than any other round though?   Dale

[GRIMJIM]

more deer have probably been taken with the .44-40 than with any other caliber.
 

That's very interesting, like Dale I would have thought the 30-06 or 30-30 were used more.

[Smokin Joe]

Depends on which century you're talking about. The settlers and hunters in the 1800's shot a million of them.......a large portion with the .44-40 in a lever action.

[DalesCarpentry]

I would have to agree then that the 44-40 has killed a lot of deer but I also have to say that the 30-06 came out in 1906 and the 30-30 before that. Even though the 44-40 has killed a lot of deer. The 30-06 and the 30-30 have killed more for the simple reason that every year there are millions of hunters that take to the woods and  use these 2 calibers. This makes my 1000 post I am now a seinor member.   Dale

[McLernon]

Poke a hole in both lungs and both lungs will soon collapse and you get a dead deer. No more than 75 yard run after the hit. Remember the heart lung shot is the favorite of bow hunters and the energy transmitted to the deer is minimal. But collapse the lungs or hit an artery and they will go down usually within 75 yards. Some deer just stand there after a lung shot. Stay still and quiet and it will lay down and fall asleep for the last time.

Good hunting!

Mc

[DalesCarpentry]

I am still looking forward to you 243 deer hunters input. I would really like to know the kind of shots you take? The ammo you use? The best shots and at what ranges? Really anything you can tell me. Thanks a lot Dale.

[Mac11700]

Federal Fusion...Limit shots to 200-300 yards max...and put them thru the heart lung area...never the head at that yardage...Heck...I don't head shoot deer at any yardage...Your good from up close to that distance with them...If they don't shoot good...pick up some Federal with the partitions...http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=338245&t=11082005...Either one of these will work and won't break the bank to practice with since you don't reload yet...The bonded Fusion & the Partition will hold together expand great then pass on thru leaving a good blood trail even if you smack the shoulder bone...

Mac

[canon6]

With any of the better US Produced ammo, 300 yards is doable if you can hit at that range. My longest with the 243 was  a 105 gr Speer HotCor on top of a bunch of IMR 4350 at about 275. Lung shots are  the only way to go  imho    Doug

[Smokin Joe]

" Even though the 44-40 has killed a lot of deer. The 30-06 and the 30-30 have killed more for the simple reason that every year there are millions of hunters that take to the woods and  use these 2 calibers."

Dale....can't really argue with that, however in the "old days" they didn't have seasons or bag limits.
Congrats on the 1000th post!

By the way, I used the .243 for many years with just about any 90-100 gn bullet with perfect success.

[Ireload2]

I have seen a number of deer killed with the .243, 6MM Remington and the .25/06 by myself and two brothers.
I consider the 243 and the 6mm adequate for heart lung area shots to 200 yards as long as the bullet expands properly. The 25/06 is noticeably more deadly. I consider it adequate to about 300 yards if you are able to place shots well at that distance.
Bullets used
.243 - 105 grain Speer spitzer and 100 grain Remington Core Lokt 
The Speer bullet penetrated well and exited. The Remington bullet worked well on side to side shots but came apart on a head on shot that exited behind a shoulder blade. The .243 seems to have noticeably less power than the 6mm though I have never chrongraphed the 243.
 Total number of deer about 10.   
6mm - 100 grain Hornady spitzer and the 100 grain Hornady RN  (total 4 deer)
          The spitzer expanded welll on a close shot but the RN seemed to just punch through on 2l short range shots. I shot deer at both range extremes with the 100 grain spitzer loaded to a chronographed 3003 FPS. At 60 yards it expanded well and exited on an angled running shot. The buck continued for about 40 yards and fell dead. The longest shot was paced at 465 paces ...... about 360 yards by my 28 inch paces. This is the longest shot I have ever attempted at anything.

I would not have taken such a shot in the field except I was able to lie prone in a thick layer of post oak leaves. The buck's nose was lifted sniffing a slight breeze. The aiming point was about one in behind where the antlers grew out of the skull and elevation was at that same point.  My thought was the breeze would drift the bullet back 4 or 5 inches and it would drop right on to his spine or a high chest shot. At the shot the buck jumped a fence and ran out of sight in to the post oaks and cedars. I had heard a thud so I walked to the last point that I saw him (had to cross the fence too). One of my brothers heard the shot and joined me.  I made over lapping loops about 50 yards wide for about 150 yards moving each loop about 20 yards until I found him dead. He had died on the run. The bullet had hit just behind the diaphragm midway down his body and penciled through his liver. Total drop was about 14 inches. Wind drift was about 12 inches.  It was just too long a shot for my likes and the 6mm really didn't have the steam for that distance. I have never tried another shot like that.
I would never recommend lighter bullets in the 6mm or 243 for deer. I have used them on crows, armadillos and jack rabbits. The bullets - 60 and 85 grain Sierra HPs and the Hornady 87 grain spitzers literally blow the smaller animals apart or wide open.

25-06
This cartridge is mentioned because I have some contrasting experience with it.
I used the same bullet weight - the 100 grain Sierra at about 3200 FPS. Does not seem like much difference compared to the 6MM does it?
I have killed deer with it from 60 yards out to about 325. All but one shot exited - that was 80 yards head on. All deer were killed with one shot. Tissue damage was much more extensive. One buck traveled 100 yards with his heart literally blown apart (the 325 yards shot). It looked like an artichoke with 3 large petals. All the other deer dropped where they were shot.
Total number of deer killed with the same bullet in the 25-06 - 11
One running coyote was shot in the back of the head running away at about a 45 degree angle  at about 60 yards - literally blew his head apart. I rarely shoot at running targets but I was shooting a lot of skeet then and the shot looked easy as I pulled the trigger.

My brothers and I have also used larger calibers such as the 7X57, 270, 30-06, 30-30, 30-06, 303 British, 338 Win Mag 35 Rem, 44 Mag and 45-70. They all work fine with good shot placement, however the 338 was used only on moose and African antelope by one of my brothers. The .222 does not. One buck was shot in the spine with a 50 grain Federal soft point. Penetration was only about 3 inches.  If I ever shoot another deer it will be with one of the 6.5 military rounds or the 8X57, or maybe the 38-55. For all of the above I do not have a single recovered mushroomed bullet. The few that did not exit disintegrated.
BTW in case you are not already bored, the action types used have been bolt guns for the most part, but also a pump and a single shot.
I eventually need to use a lever action and an auto-loader to cover all types. 

EDG

[georgeld]

Dale:
I was taught since the mid 50s by the old elk killers there's only ONE shot on game.

That's a double lung shot as Mc. said.  Nothing else.   Forget the heart shot, it's too small and nearly impossible to hit without very precision shooting and then one side or the other will almost surely hit a foreleg and ruin meat.  Besides that, the heart is very good eating, so why ruin it?

There's only one answer to those guys that:  "ruins too much meat".  What the H are you doing shooting the meat anyway?"

.243 on deer, or antelope are very good, but, close to minimum.   Use 100, or 105's and precision shot placement thru both lungs.
That's:  Up close to the back edge of the shoulders, I try to aim center height. That way IF/when my range guessing is off some. There's room for high, or low.

I use a 700 with 100gr,  35gr 4895 myself.  Somewhere around 2950-3000fps. Would have to spend time digging out the chronograph records to name it closer.

Practice, practice, and then practice some more.  When you can keep 'em all on a paperplate no matter the range, you've got it right.

Good luck,

George

[Graybeard]

I've used the .243 on a grand total of ONE DEER. It was a young most likely 1.5 or at most 2.5 year old four point buck. The range was at most 75 yards. The round was the Hornady factory load with 100 grain bullet. As the trigger broke the buck took a step forward but the shot was committed and couldn't be taken back. The cross hairs were just behind the shoulder for the classic double lung hit and the rifle was a sub MOA gun and my rest was solid as a rock. My last impression of the shot was no worse than rear one third of lungs or front of liver and most likely rear of lungs.

That little buck took off running at the shot and never gave any indication of a hit even tho their was nothing but air between us. I watched it run close to 200 yards thru the open woods before I lost sight of it. I went to the spot it was standing at the shot, found the tracks where it made the leap forward at the shot but found no blood. I sure expected a pass thru but the lack of blood spray told me I didn't get it. I followed the path the deer took as best as I could from my recollection of the run it made and the occasional track I could find where leave cover allowed.

I never did find that buck even tho I expanded my search to about 400 yards nor did I ever find blood. My conclusion was that in spite of the near impossibility of the idea that I must have missed. The following week the other folks hunting that land along with me saw buzzards and went to see what they were on. The buck they found seemed to fit the description of the one I'd shot but it was close to 1/2 mile from where I'd shot it. I wasn't with them and cannot verify it was the same deer. I also cannot be 100% sure I hit the deer but I've been at this a long time and do know how to call my shots on both targets and game. That bullet should have gone into a spot that with any other round I've ever hunted with would have dropped the buck within sight of me but he didn't fall in sight of me.

I lost all confidence in the round after that and ended up trading off one of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned due to that total lack of confidence. I'll never know for sure if I just totally flubbed the shot and missed or if it hit much further back than expected and was a gut shot even tho my sight picture said no way it could have been.

I correspond daily with a friend in PA who happens to own an identical rifle to that one of mine also chambered to .243. We talked about that deer a lot and as a result of it he used his .243 on several deer over the next 2-3 years and all were clean one shot kills altho one of his ran further than expected he found it easily enough. He has complete confidence in the .243 on deer and I still have zero confidence in it. I doubt seriously I'll ever pull the trigger on another deer with a 6mm anything but for sure if I do there will be a 95 or 100 grain Nosler Partition bullet in the round.

I sure wish I could go back and be sure if the buck found was the one I shot but can't as I didn't even know of it until weeks after it was found and until then had just assumed by some really strange quirk of fate I'd missed. And I might have as that could have been a totally different deer. A miss I could live with but if it was hit and I got the performance that it seemed I did if that was the buck I shot I can't live with. Thus I've given up on the 6mm bore for other than varmints.

[cwlongshot]

Bill,
 I have had almost the same thing happen to me on three occasions. (I recovered the deer) But all ran off as if unscathed. I tracked for some distance before LIGHT blood trail was found. This happened with the 30-06, 243 and 7mm/08.  All on calm deer with in 100 yards. I was quite disturbed,  was young, just beginning my life as a deer hunter and much of my knowledge was from family and gun mags. I KNEW shots thru the lungs worked, I had shot a couple deer with a bow and all expired with in sight. Yet I get a rifle and shoot to the same spot and they run..... I changed where I shoot animals. With a firearm, with in 200 yards I shoot bones. Tru the shoulders, base of the neck either or. My preferred shot is a med high shoulder shot. EVERY single animal shot there has dropped in there tracks. I am not referring to one or two or even a couple dozens and dozens including bears. No more problems.

I feel my above problems (as yours was) where lack of bullet expansion. Mine where recover with second shots and VERY small exit holes found from the first shots. Our "rifle seasons" then where in NY and almost always on snow. making tracking and recovery MUCH easier. With out it I would likely have lost two of the three deer. The last one, 7/08 buck, I was so exacerbated by the first shot I took a lucky running shot at the buck and dropped him where he stood.

If I where to hunt western states where the yardages stretch a bit, I would go back to the center lung shot as its a larger target. Humanely dispatching the game IS THE way it should go.

Dale,
 Base of the skull/head shots are not advised. Do it right and you will drop everyone. out like a light. Miss by a bit and you have condemned that animal to a horrific death. You will most likely never recover that deer. Center of the lungs with adequate calibers and bullets work , I (as I have just recounted) prefer to shoot at bones. In my mind animals shot with a gun should drop or have a marked reaction to bullet impact. Bullets kill by shock and ripped/torn flesh. Ripped/torn flesh is not the best for a good blood trail. To the contrary arrows kill by hemorrhaging, with sliced flesh. Sliced flesh bleeds more and for a longer time. Many of the deer I have shot with the bow have only twitched or jumped and stood looking around only to take a dozen steps and keel over. There is very little trauma to the deers body from a well placed arrow from a well tuned bow.

 I have shot three deer with a 243. All shot with 100 - 105gr handloads with in 150 yrds. It worked well enough. I prefer bigger bullets and the bugger holes they provide.

I didn't respond right away as I assumed you knew these things.

CW

 

[ftw]

I hunted with a Ruger 77 in .243 for over twenty deer seasons, with it being my primary weapon. I killed at least one deer every year and up to three deer in a good many other years.

I handloaded Hornady 100gr Spire point bullets. In all those years, I never had a deer go out of sight and 90% went down within twenty yards. I always shot them on the point of shoulder. I would come up the front leg and where the shoulder and the base of the neck met is where I would shoot.

One year, I don't know why, probably from watching too many deer hunting videos, I decided to shoot a big doe through the heart/lungs. At the shot she kicked it in high gear like she was supercharged and took off running. I was kind of stunned as I was use to them falling over. She made a circle and I hit her again and she went down but tried to get up. I shot her in the neck to end it. True she did not go but 75 yards but that was a lot farther than I was used to.  One of my friends, that I hunted with often, remarked he had never heard me shoot more than once, I told him I had done something dumb by leaving what I knew would work to try something different.

The one disclaimer is in Georgia where I hunt you rarely get a shot longer than 100 yards and many of my deer were killed in the 40-80 yard range. I have never shot a deer at 300 yards or more so I can't say what would happen at that yardage with the .243. It may lose a lot of it's zip by then.

[hellacatcher]

Everybody has their favorite I am still looking for mine.

[hotrod0872]

killed lots of deer with 243!lung shots with 80 nosler balistic tipped with 46.5g of imr4831
never had one run over 50yd, most of them drop,will pass all the way thur with quater to half dollar exit hole
shoot around 4000fps and with pratice can shoot out to 400 yds

[MSP Ret]

"I shot her in the neck to end it."

I try to shoot them in the neck in the neck whenever I can. The only deer I had to track a long distance was one I did not shoot in the neck, of course where I hunt 80-100 yards is a long shot and the average is probably just under 50 yards....<><....

[fanner50]

I use a Ultra Varmint fluted .243 for antelope and deer in Eastern Montana. I load a 95gr CT over 4350 to 2953 fps actual chronograph just today. I have it doped to 600 yds but will try and keep it under 400. I've taken 8 antelope and 2 whitetails and 2 mulies with this rifle between 100 and 354 measured yds. Most dropped in their tracks one mule deer went 30 yds before pileing up. Most were broad side shots or slightly quartered to me. You do your part and it will do the job. By the way the only deer I have lost in 30 yearsI shot with a 375 H&H at about 80 yds when I tried a head shot.
Good luck and good hunting - F50

[old coach]

I have deer hunted with a 243 for 30+ yrs. I have never lost a deer shot with a 243.
Years ago I used the Rem. core-lok 100 grn green and yellow box. i still have some priced under $10 a box.
I now handload a Hornady V-Max 87 grn over IMR 4831 @ 3200 fps from a 24" bbl.
I shoot the high shoulder and try to take out the spine. Bang flop.
If I shoot the lungs the deer usually run 25-50 yds.
The V-Max is a varmit bullet, you have to have open ground to shoot over, if it hits a leaf or grass it will blow apart.
Very seldom does it pass thru at over 125 yds. It just turns the lungs to "mush",or takes out the spine.
For heavy cover I load 100 grn Nosler Partitions.
The longest shot on a deer with a 243 was 325yds (lasered) DRT
I have also killed hogs over 400 lbs with a 243 all spine shot at under 100 yds.

[Booyah]

Hey Dale,

I thought you sold all your Handis and was shooting a bolt now?  Are you back to shooting a 243 Handi?   

I have shot deer with a 243 in the neck at 100 yards and less with them dropping in there tracks.  The farthest I have shot a 243 was about 250 yards with a heart shot and the deer ran about 30 yards. I would not recommend any bullet weight other than 100 gr. 

[statelinerut]

Sorry for the delayed response Dale, but just got in last night from national sales meeting. Boy I missed my chair

Yes I have taken almost 20 deer with my Handi 243 and not one has gone over 20 yards. I never aim for the shoulder or neck, only behind the shoulder. I am using the Fusion 95 grain and will never use anything else. My shots have ranged from 25 yards to 125 yards. The 125 yard shot was the 8 pointer I took last year and he went 20 yards and piled up. Double lung shot. I will be carrying the same combo in the woods this year as well. Best combo for whitetail I have ever found. For me that is.

[Inrut24/7]

Dale, your hunting in PA right?  If your wanting to shoot that far i ussume your hunting in fields, most pa deer will be running all they can go through the fields, at least they do in bedford county

[DalesCarpentry]

This one farm I have been hunting groundhogs all summer. I have been seeing a lot of deer there all summer. I know it is not deer season yet but many have passed under 300 yards and some as close as 100yards. The are always just walking along. That might change though during deer season. Dale