8mm Mauser Ammo Shooting High?

[june6th1944]

I have a k98 that I just cleaned up and took to the range and was very disappointed in it's shooting.  I shot Sellier & Bellot 196g Cut Edge and the thing shoots 20" high, not kidding, and it's not shooter error either, three other people got the same results including the rangemaster.  I've had 3 other people tell me that commercial ammo ALWAYS shoots high in these military rifles.  For those who shoot these things, what have you found?  I am going to try some Austrian non-corrosive 8mm milsurp and replace the bullets to see what happens.  Is commercial loaded to different specs that the military loadings?

[savageT]

I have a k98 that I just cleaned up and took to the range and was very disappointed in it's shooting.  I shot Sellier & Bellot 196g Cut Edge and the thing shoots 20" high, not kidding, and it's not shooter error either, three other people got the same results including the rangemaster.  I've had 3 other people tell me that commercial ammo ALWAYS shoots high in these military rifles.  For those who shoot these things, what have you found?  I am going to try some Austrian non-corrosive 8mm milsurp and replace the bullets to see what happens.  Is commercial loaded to different specs that the military loadings?

I wouldn't be concerned about the commercial ammo shooting high.  S & B's are noted for being loaded on the hot side.  If you want, you can go over to surplusrifle.com and look for an article that Jamie has on fixing original mil front sights.  You basically are raising the blade to shoot lower, and to do this, you are using epoxy to build up the front sight.  The whole process looks easy to do, and it can always be returned to original should you wish.  Incidently, It is true as earlier reported that "GOOGLE" is not recognizing anything to do with guns any longer....go to "DogPile".
http://www.surplusrifle.com/sights/frontsight/index.asp

[jdt48653]

have the barrel checked for being bent,and get some good sights!
i use norma ammo in mine,it shoots 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds open sights.

[Snowshoe]

The battle rifle sights were set so you just aim at the middle of a man and hit him, from 100 to 500 yards. They did not worry about hitting the exact spot, just hit the man. If you want to use iron sights, you could get a taller front sight.  My Turk shot the big bullets high, but the 150g bullets I loaded hit just 2" high at 100 yards. I found the iron sights very poor so I installed a scope, and am very happy with it. It now shoots 1" groups at 100 yards.

[1911crazy]

How hard was it to put the front band on the rifle? My next question is did you do anything to the stock that could push the barrel up in the front? Sometimes the slightest thing could do this even if you let some stock finish  like poly run into the stock and harden. It can push the barrel up.  Or did you change the stock if so check the stock for a high section that could push the barrel up too it doesn't take much to make it 20" higher. If this didn't happen you need a taller front sight but first I would try other brands of ammo.  I like shooting for hunting of course PMC 170gr SP its been very accurate in both my Hakim and my K98 mauser.  The American made 8mm ammo is less powerful than european made 8mm ammo I guess the american manufactures are afraid of legal problems in case the ammo blows up the gun. If it shoots the same with another brand of ammo a higher front site is the change to make.
                                                                       BigBill

[Mikey]

6/6/44:  All my military mausers in 8mm do exactly the same.  The dang sights are regulated to shoot to point of aim at 300 yds and impact at 100 yds makes you think of anti-aircraft fire.  

I think I went to SAMCO or one of the others and purchased some tall front sights for the 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser, which has the same problem.  The sights cost a couple of dollars each so you may wish to get a 2+ and a 2.5+.  No problem - the front sight drifts out from left to right and the new, taller ones drift right back in.  The 3.5+ sight is too tall and will shoot about 6" low at 50 yds.  I would try the 2+ front blade first and she should group right in there to point of aim at 50-100 yds.  

Hope this helps.  Mikey.

[1911crazy]

Even if its sighted in at 300yds its not going to be 20" high at 100 yds?? If my gun is sighted in at 100yds its only 1 1/2" high at 50yds the bullet only climbs so much.  My swede was off 6" at 100yds and their sighted in for 300yds.  and my k98 8mm carbine is dead on thats German and i never touched it.                                                      BigBill

[june6th1944]

All good comments.  The barrel isn't bent.

First, I'm going to try American made 8mm ammo, b/c hopefully it's loaded to different pressures.  I know Remington is loading 8mm Mauser again for 2003.  Second, I'm going to try the Austrian ammo from Samco, NC and reloadable, so many pluses there.  Third, I'm going to replace the front sight.  And lastly, I might get the barrel slugged to see what the actual bore diameter is, maybe the bullets are rattling down the barrel.  Before any of this though, I'm going to disassemble and put together again to see if that helps.  I hope it's ammo.

I'll keep you posted.

[Mikey]

6/6/44:  You may wish to consider doing yourself a large favor and stay with the same brand of ammunition throughout your testing.  American ammo manufacturers err on the side of liability and most of their european calibers are loaded way down for that purpose.  I have seen Winchester 8mm loaded with a 170 grain bullet to the velocity of a 30-30, and I doubt Remington does any better.  Sellier and Bellot maintain the original ballistics for all european cartridges.  For Mil-surp, either the S&B ball ammo or the Portugese 8mm should do ya just fine.  The S&B 196 grn CE ammo you used is supposed to be loaded to the original specs but with a hunting bullet.  Something faster may shoot lower but not by much.  

Since your barrel is not bent, thank goodness, try replacing your front sight.  If your point of impact is really 20" high at 100 yds then start with the tall Swedish Mauser front sight, that should bring it down by about a foot.  My Yugo 8mm was shooting 6" high at 100 yds, and with the Swede Tall Front sight she dropped a full foot to shoot 6" low at the same distance.

Since your barrel is not bent, check for stock impact on the barrel to see if your barrel is being bent up or forced up by the stock.  It doesn't take much pressure to have that happen.  Hope this helps.  Good luck and let us know.  Mikey.

[1911crazy]

I have one more question?? Are you benchresting the gun??  When i'm sighting in all my guns I benchrest it first down tight to see where it actually hits then sight it in then just hold it firm and shoot it after i know its zeroed in.                                                   BigBill

[Robert]

American Ammo is loaded for guns that were built more than 100 years ago with a smaller diameter bore.   OK...NOW LOOK CLOSELY AT THE REAR SIGHT ON YOUR FIREARM!  The lowest graduation/setting on your rifle sights is for 300 meters, not yards.  The top one is for 2,000 meters.  Does anyone have any questions?

[june6th1944]

After many months, I finally got around to handloading some 8mm Mauser loads for this rifle.  My problems are solved, I think it was shooting low (not high) and was lobbing the bullets out there.

I loaded 150g Hornady with 49/50/51g of IMR 4064 and the results were amazing.  1.5" groups at 100 yards with the 50g load.  It shoots 4" high and 1" to the left consistently, but that's fine with me.  My local gunsmith recommended it was the ammo and not the rifle, so now I can maybe hunt with this rifle.  The 50-51g of 4064 and 150 grain is the closest I could get to the original German specs of 154gr Spitzer at 2936ft/sec.

[S.S.]

Actually it depends on where the weapon was
made and for whom as to if the sight graduations
are in meters or yards. As I understand it, some
were even made for the old Soviet distance
measurement of "ARSHINS" (Paces). I have one set of
rear Sights that I still have not figured out that seem to have
a setting on one side to use when the bayonet is attached
and one setting for when it isn't. There is some really
weird stuff out there.

[cal sibley]

That S&B ammo isn't generally regarded as being all that good.   Your problem could be the same as I found on my M96 Swedish Mausers.  My sights can't be set for shorter distances than 200yds so everything at 100yds. shoots quite high.  Just a suggestion.  I'm not certain if the German Mausers were set the same way or not.  Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal