Author Topic: Just an observation  (Read 702 times)

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Offline jh45gun

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Just an observation
« on: September 09, 2007, 04:15:44 PM »
On the argument of politics some seem to think that any news source  or some Internet sources as gospel. Here is an interesting proof you always cannot trust what you read while it is not political it does show that facts can be twisted either by mistake or intent.

First article says it is a 50 cal machine gun now that one will inflame all those that are against ownership of such a gun or the round in a rifle:

 NEAH BAY, Wash. - An injured California gray whale was swimming out to sea Saturday after being shot with a machine gun off the western tip of Washington state, officials said.

Coast Guard Petty Officer Kelly Parker said five people believed to be members of the Makah Tribe shot and harpooned the whale Saturday morning. The extent of the whale's injuries were not immediately known.

Tribe members were being held by the Coast Guard but had not been charged, said Mark Oswell, a spokesman for the law enforcement arm of the National Marine Fisheries Service.

A preliminary report said the whale was shot with a .50-caliber machine gun, Oswell said.

Coast Guard officials created a 1,000-yard safety zone around the injured whale, which was shot about a mile east of Neah Bay in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. The whale had begun heading to sea Saturday afternoon, Oswell said.

Although the tribe has subsistence fishing rights to kill whales, Oswell said preliminary information indicates the whale may have been shot illegally.

"We allow native hunts for cultural purposes. However, this does not appear to be of that nature so far," he said.

The Makah Tribe has more than 1,000 members and is based in Neah Bay.

A call to tribal officials was not immediately returned on Saturday. Tribal Chairman Ben Johnson told The Seattle Times that the tribe has been seeking an exemption from the federal Marine Mammal Protection Act so that it could take up to five gray whales per year. However, Johnson said the tribe had not yet secured that exemption for a new hunt.


Now I am sure after the flap of this 50 cal misuse hits the media and the net we get this story that it was a 460 rifle.

Tribe Denounces Whale Shooting
56 minutes ago

NEAH BAY, Wash. (AP) — The Makah Tribal Council on Sunday denounced the killing of a California gray whale that was harpooned and shot several times off Washington's coast, calling it "a blatant violation of our law" and promising to prosecute those responsible.

But one of the men suspected in the killing told a newspaper Sunday that he was "feeling kind of proud" and whaling is "in the blood."

"We are a law-abiding people, and we will not tolerate lawless conduct by any of our members," the council said in a statement released Sunday.

The U.S. Coast Guard detained five men believed to have killed the whale on Saturday, then turned them over to tribal police for further questioning.

In its statement, the council said the men, whose names it did not release, were booked into the tribe's detention facility and released after posting bail. The council said the men will stand trial in tribal court, but did not set a date.

The American Indian tribe has more than 1,000 members and is based in Neah Bay at Washington's westernmost tip.

Wayne Johnson, captain of the whaling crew that in 1999 legally killed the tribe's first whale in decades, told The Seattle Times that he and four other tribal members plunged at least five steel whaling five harpoons into the animal then shot it with a .460-caliber rifle.

Johnson, 54, said he had no regrets — other than waiting so many years to do it.

"I'm not ashamed," he told The Times in a story the paper posted on its Web site Sunday. "I'm feeling kind of proud. ... I should have done it years ago. I come from a whaling family, on my grandmother's side and my grandfather's side. It's in the blood."

The Makah tribe's treaty rights to hunt whales have been tangled in the courts for several years.

The federal government removed the gray whale from the endangered species list in 1994. Five years later, with a permit from the National Marine Fisheries Service, Makah tribal members killed their first whale in more than 70 years.

Animal welfare activists sued, leading to a court order that the tribe must obtain a waiver under the Marine Mammal Protection Act to continue hunting whales.

John McCarty, a former tribal whaling commission member who has been an advocate of the Makah's right to resume whaling, said the tribe had been working to obtain the waiver and that the process was close to completion.

"I don't know why they did this. It's terrible," McCarty told The Times. "I think the anti-whalers will be after us in full force, and we look ridiculous. Like we can't manage our own people, we can't manage our own whale."

The Times reported that four of the five men detained Saturday took part in the 1999 hunt. All five could face civil penalties of up to $20,000 each and up to a year in jail, said Brian Gorman, a spokesman for the National Marine Fisheries Service.

The whale was headed toward the Pacific Ocean after being wounded and later disappeared beneath the surface, dragging down buoys that had been attached to a harpoon. A biologist for the tribe declared the animal dead, Petty Officer Shawn Eggert said.

Just goes to show you should take everything the media and net says with a grain of salt.
 







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Offline jh45gun

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 07:05:33 AM »
What no takers?
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 12:52:30 PM »
What opinion are you looking for?  If your thesis is that the internet news sites can be wrong, yes.  Of course they can.  Anyone who trusts everything he reads online is an idiot.  Otherwise I don't know why the confusion regarding the caliber of gun involved in a bizarre whale shooting really matters.

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2007, 01:01:33 PM »
Quote
we can't manage our own whale.

Words I never expected to be uttered by a statesman.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2007, 01:30:44 PM »
What opinion are you looking for?  If your thesis is that the internet news sites can be wrong, yes.  Of course they can.  Anyone who trusts everything he reads online is an idiot.  .

Thats exactly what I was looking for though I would have not been so harsh about it. LOL as it seems some folks around here post every thing they find on the net about Politics as Gospel and I just used that as an example because it was current.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Matt

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2007, 01:33:08 PM »
Nor do I see what it has to do with politics or the accuracy of political websites.

Also seeing as you seem to think your sources are so much better than mine it seems only right that we compare the sources.

Here are a few of mine what are yours?
http://thomas.loc.gov/
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r110query.html
http://www.senate.gov/index.htm
http://www.house.gov/
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/legbranch/otherleg.html
http://www.rollcall.com/
http://www.usa.gov/
http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/Legislative.shtml

There are just a few for you to check out. Let me know what you find that you think is wrong or bad info on any of the records you find…

Oh wait you won’t bother to waste your time to use the most powerful tool we as Americans have ever had will you…

Matt


Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline jh45gun

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2007, 02:30:06 PM »
You know darn well I was referring to INTERNET NEWS SITES that do not have any link to Government sites.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Matt

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2007, 02:34:56 PM »
ok well you said my sources without knowing my sources thus the comment about you talking out of your ass.

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline jh45gun

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2007, 03:21:50 PM »
Well first of all when I posted this I was not even thinking of your post I was thinking of the links Fazak was posting as he was just posting snippets of things. Never even gave any thought you would think I was talking about you but then since you and Fazak and TM& support Paul I could see where you thought I was talking about you specifically. Well I was not.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Matt

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2007, 03:23:42 PM »
fair enough
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline Fazak

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2007, 03:13:44 AM »
On the argument of politics some seem to think that any news source  or some Internet sources as gospel. Here is an interesting proof you always cannot trust what you read while it is not political it does show that facts can be twisted either by mistake or intent.

First article says it is a 50 cal machine gun now that one will inflame all those that are against ownership of such a gun or the round in a rifle:

 NEAH BAY, Wash. - An injured California gray whale was swimming out to sea Saturday after being shot with a machine gun off the western tip of Washington state, officials said.

Coast Guard Petty Officer Kelly Parker said five people believed to be members of the Makah Tribe shot and harpooned the whale Saturday morning. The extent of the whale's injuries were not immediately known.

Tribe members were being held by the Coast Guard but had not been charged, said Mark Oswell, a spokesman for the law enforcement arm of the National Marine Fisheries Service.

A preliminary report said the whale was shot with a .50-caliber machine gun, Oswell said.

Coast Guard officials created a 1,000-yard safety zone around the injured whale, which was shot about a mile east of Neah Bay in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. The whale had begun heading to sea Saturday afternoon, Oswell said.

Although the tribe has subsistence fishing rights to kill whales, Oswell said preliminary information indicates the whale may have been shot illegally.

"We allow native hunts for cultural purposes. However, this does not appear to be of that nature so far," he said.

The Makah Tribe has more than 1,000 members and is based in Neah Bay.

A call to tribal officials was not immediately returned on Saturday. Tribal Chairman Ben Johnson told The Seattle Times that the tribe has been seeking an exemption from the federal Marine Mammal Protection Act so that it could take up to five gray whales per year. However, Johnson said the tribe had not yet secured that exemption for a new hunt.


Now I am sure after the flap of this 50 cal misuse hits the media and the net we get this story that it was a 460 rifle.

Tribe Denounces Whale Shooting
56 minutes ago

NEAH BAY, Wash. (AP) — The Makah Tribal Council on Sunday denounced the killing of a California gray whale that was harpooned and shot several times off Washington's coast, calling it "a blatant violation of our law" and promising to prosecute those responsible.

But one of the men suspected in the killing told a newspaper Sunday that he was "feeling kind of proud" and whaling is "in the blood."

"We are a law-abiding people, and we will not tolerate lawless conduct by any of our members," the council said in a statement released Sunday.

The U.S. Coast Guard detained five men believed to have killed the whale on Saturday, then turned them over to tribal police for further questioning.

In its statement, the council said the men, whose names it did not release, were booked into the tribe's detention facility and released after posting bail. The council said the men will stand trial in tribal court, but did not set a date.

The American Indian tribe has more than 1,000 members and is based in Neah Bay at Washington's westernmost tip.

Wayne Johnson, captain of the whaling crew that in 1999 legally killed the tribe's first whale in decades, told The Seattle Times that he and four other tribal members plunged at least five steel whaling five harpoons into the animal then shot it with a .460-caliber rifle.

Johnson, 54, said he had no regrets — other than waiting so many years to do it.

"I'm not ashamed," he told The Times in a story the paper posted on its Web site Sunday. "I'm feeling kind of proud. ... I should have done it years ago. I come from a whaling family, on my grandmother's side and my grandfather's side. It's in the blood."

The Makah tribe's treaty rights to hunt whales have been tangled in the courts for several years.

The federal government removed the gray whale from the endangered species list in 1994. Five years later, with a permit from the National Marine Fisheries Service, Makah tribal members killed their first whale in more than 70 years.

Animal welfare activists sued, leading to a court order that the tribe must obtain a waiver under the Marine Mammal Protection Act to continue hunting whales.

John McCarty, a former tribal whaling commission member who has been an advocate of the Makah's right to resume whaling, said the tribe had been working to obtain the waiver and that the process was close to completion.

"I don't know why they did this. It's terrible," McCarty told The Times. "I think the anti-whalers will be after us in full force, and we look ridiculous. Like we can't manage our own people, we can't manage our own whale."

The Times reported that four of the five men detained Saturday took part in the 1999 hunt. All five could face civil penalties of up to $20,000 each and up to a year in jail, said Brian Gorman, a spokesman for the National Marine Fisheries Service.

The whale was headed toward the Pacific Ocean after being wounded and later disappeared beneath the surface, dragging down buoys that had been attached to a harpoon. A biologist for the tribe declared the animal dead, Petty Officer Shawn Eggert said.

Just goes to show you should take everything the media and net says with a grain of salt.
 

Condensation:

If I disagree with it, it's not a valid source.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: Just an observation
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2007, 09:57:21 AM »
Never said that, 
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.