Author Topic: How Tyranny Came to America  (Read 3925 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2007, 09:09:22 AM »
Any deviation from fighting terrorism and muslim extremist  line is un-patriotic..

I was patriotic before 9-11, and I still am.

I watched all those wanna-be patriots waving flags and I knew it wouldn't last a week.  The modern American just doesn't have any will power to resist the muslims who will eventually take this country from them.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2007, 12:23:36 PM »
  TM7..

   Please note in my last post, I did not paint ALL Libertarians with the same brush ! I distinctly said "many" Libertarians.

   Note the difference in the terms .."many" ..and .."all"..

   That being said, as I mentioned...I was giving Ron Paul the benefit of a doubt, until the debate where I heard him say ..cut funds to the military and ABOLISH the CIA, FBI and several of our other "safeguard" organizations.

   On top of that, he wants to "cut and run"..and at the same time, stop any kind of wire tapping/surveillance of potential terrorists.

  Smart move; blind ourselves, just when the terrorists are likely to follow us home !  ...DUH

      Now don't go on about the "sins" of the CIA & FBI !

     They are organizations made up of human beings and sin is present wherever makind is doing anything, but they are effective despite those "sins"..

            Just remember where we would be, had not these groups stopped the many potential and plotted acts of terrorism !

      Spain, UK, France, Indonesia and many other places have been hit with these " Islama-lunatics" since 9/11.

   There's no way you can convince me that they would not have hit "the Great Satan" during that time..had they been able !

   Obviously the FBI, CIA, Coast Guard and Homeland defense were doing their respective jobs .

    Unfortunately, it may take another 9/11 event to rouse certain of our citizens from their self-imposed slumber !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2007, 08:04:48 AM »
Campaign Ribbon only means you were in the "area" your service describes. Is there a difference between A Marine in Hue, a soldier in the Delta, a flight surgeon in Thailand, a sailor on a supply ship, or a sailor on a carrier?  They can all receive a Campaign Medal.  But, who REALLY fought?   RP's service says he was in the "Campaign" but did he REALLY fight?

I have respect for those that served but I don't like when that service is embellished by them OR others. Especially when the others probably haven't.

The Marine, the Soldier, the Carrier Sailor, they're "fighters".

The only thing that jeopardizes America "great and free" is the Blame America First because America's ALWAYS wrong crowd. Add to that the Hate Anything Bush crowd.




Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2007, 11:58:26 AM »
  Guys...

   I  have been trying for many a moon..to figure out just what a NEOCON is ! Obviously, the word is a construct; NEO meaning new and the CON is a
   contraction of conservative..but what exactly is one ?
       
          If there are "new conservatives"  why are there no NEOLIBS ? That is either "newliberals" or "newlibertarians"..take your choice !
             After all, even the libs...( liberals or libertarians ) have new ideas at times..

    I was listening to Rush the other day and he offered an answer. He said that whenever we hear the term "NEOCON" used in conversation about politics,
    just figure the speaker is saying "Jew"..because that is what they mean ! He claims it is a "code word" for those that dislike Jews .

   Again; I am not accusing anyone..just passing on what Rush said; not knowing if he is right or wrong .

     I don't know just how accurate Rush is in that statement, but I wil be reviewing past and future posts to see if his  explanation fits..

    Donno..but lets check it out .
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Heavy C

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2007, 04:04:36 PM »
I have often wondered, that if America and her government is, according to some, such a rotten, racist, homophobic, selfish, no good place to be.........why is it that no one is jumping the border and running to Africa, Mexico, Cuba, China, Russia,etc etc.......Why is it they all want to come here ??  If it is so bad for some, why are they not heading back to the countries they claim are so understanding and free ??  If there is a better place than America, please feel free to head on out.....IMHO 

You know there was more than one Hollywood freak saying he/she would move to France if GW were elected for another term.  The funny thing is those good-for-nothings are still hanging around raking in the big paychecks.

Offline Fazak

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2007, 05:33:56 PM »
  Guys...

   I  have been trying for many a moon..to figure out just what a NEOCON is ! Obviously, the word is a construct; NEO meaning new and the CON is a
   contraction of conservative..but what exactly is one ?
       
          If there are "new conservatives"  why are there no NEOLIBS ? That is either "newliberals" or "newlibertarians"..take your choice !
             After all, even the libs...( liberals or libertarians ) have new ideas at times..

    I was listening to Rush the other day and he offered an answer. He said that whenever we hear the term "NEOCON" used in conversation about politics,
    just figure the speaker is saying "Jew"..because that is what they mean ! He claims it is a "code word" for those that dislike Jews .

   Again; I am not accusing anyone..just passing on what Rush said; not knowing if he is right or wrong .

     I don't know just how accurate Rush is in that statement, but I wil be reviewing past and future posts to see if his  explanation fits..

    Donno..but lets check it out .

I don't know where Rush Limbaugh gets his information,... just as I don't know where he got his OxyContin,... but here's a definition of the term "Neocon" from the man who is generally considered one of the founding members of the philosophy.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3000&R=785F27881

Even I, frequently referred to as the "godfather" of all those neocons, have had my moments of wonderment. A few years ago I said (and, alas, wrote) that neoconservatism had had its own distinctive qualities in its early years, but by now had been absorbed into the mainstream of American conservatism. I was wrong, and the reason I was wrong is that, ever since its origin among disillusioned liberal intellectuals in the 1970s, what we call neoconservatism has been one of those intellectual undercurrents that surface only intermittently.

Pay special attention to this part of the definition:

ever since its origin among disillusioned liberal intellectuals

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to accept the word of a convicted felon who has a history of drug addiction.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2007, 06:28:49 PM »
Quote
Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to accept the word of a convicted felon who has a history of drug addiction.


I would take his word over yours anyday.  ;D ;D ;D
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Fazak

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2007, 06:49:47 PM »
Quote
Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to accept the word of a convicted felon who has a history of drug addiction.


I would take his word over yours anyday.  ;D ;D ;D

I realize that,... but you demonstrate in virtually every post you make that your mind is closed to anything that you haven't already preconceived,... like many people.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2007, 07:29:41 PM »
Nope your wrong I have had lots of info off net that has changed my mind on things. Problem is here the stuff your advocating most of the time I just do not agree with as your anti Bush anti Thompson and Pro Paul.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2007, 02:08:52 AM »
  
   Fazak;

    Thank you for bringing that article to our attention..

          In reading the article I find that neocons want:

   A) Lower taxes

   B) Less deficits

  C) To end the old struggle between "haves" and "have nots".

  D) To replace the "welfare state"with a more viable alternative.


           Neocons "are not afraid of big govt" ( I'm not too comfortable that one ! )

  
           On the other hand neocons do believe that:

  A) Patriotism is natural and good and should be encouraged.

  B) Isolationism would cause the U.S. to decline in economic and political influence.

  C) "A statesman should, above all, should have the ability to to distinguish friends from enemies."

  D)  " World government is a terrible idea "..

  E)  "World government can lead to world tyranny !"

             ...And last but not least..in fact most important to many here I am sure, that tend to believe in God as most Americans traditionally have :

        The statement as Mr. Kristol wrote it :

                    "...But it is only to a degree that neocons are comfortable in modern America . The steady decline in our culture, sinking to new levels
       of vulgarity, does unite neocons with traditional conservatives; though not with those Libertarian conservatives who are conservative in economics
        but unmindful of the culture ."

                 It would seem to me that most of us realize that America is not a single facet nation, based only on economics . While economics is an
       important part of American success, this nation would never have gotten "out of the blocks" without being a basically " good and decent" nation.
                
             As Mr Kristol so aptly pointed out, neocons are more in the type of  Tocqueville than Kirk. Tocqueville said that the secret of America's success
       was not in it's economic power, but in it's innate goodness. He even stated that he looked for the secret of it's greatness and found it not to
       be in it's markets, it's factories or it's vast land holdings etc...but it was in it's churches !

                         Tocqueville said, " America is great because she is good; if America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great !"

          Frankly; I believe Tocqueville was very prescient and perceptive...and history will prove him correct ! I am sure many posters here agree with that
          notion.
                    
                 The nations of Western Europe I believe, have declined as their belief in God has declined ; should that not be a warning to the U.S. ?

               All in all , I must admit to much greater kinship with neocons than I expected . Anyone that believes American citizens should be
               only concerned with ECONOMIC well-being; that man is simply a materialistic creature who need not regard his spirit and soul,
               smacks of the Marxist dialectic too much for my comfort zone.
                      
                       Man cannot REALLY LIVE by bread alone ....

               While libertarian conservatives believe others are the "new conservatives" and they ( the libertarians) are the heirs to the founding fathers, I submit
               that the " new conservative" movement is simply a  new birthing (rebirth) of our founders' philosophies and principles. It is the libertarians that have
               strayed from the paths set by Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Patrick Henry....

             BTW: Mr. Kristol along with a few other "neocons" is probably Jewish..but then Jews and Christians both share many common values, and both are
             concerned by the decline in decency in recent years.
              We both realize that great nations are rarely defeated from without, but often defeated by indecency and moral rot from within. Just read the
             Old Testament, and you can see why the Jews, perhaps above all, know just how this happens !

                    As Rush said, "neocon' is a code word for "Jew"..does the term "Zionist"..tip one's hand ?
            
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2007, 02:21:01 AM »
  Sure TM7;

    In view of their inviting Iran's " I'madinnerjacket" TO their campus and driving the likes of the Minutemen, military recruiters and the ROTC
    AWAY FROM their campus...Columbia U. would be a good source for learning about American ideals and patriotism....

                                                                       .....Yeah Right !!!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2007, 04:16:45 AM »
Seems like Columbia U. has taken a sharp veer to the left since those halcyon days when "Rumie" and "Wolfie" attended !
 
 If you doubt that, just ask yourself if "Rumie" and "Wolfie" would have banned the Minutemen, military and the ROTC !

   As far as the Zionism query; I haven't heard the neocons address Zionism very much, in fact it appears that such is a label
 
  others are trying to brand them with .
 
  When "Zionism" becomes someone's central focus and battlecry, I must wonder at their motivations. Mainly because the Jews deserve their homeland
  fully as much as the Palestinians do..especially when it was THEIR homeland to start with !

   Right now the Jews have some of it and the Palestinians have some of it...only the Palestinians are keeping the pot boiling, the Jews are not
  committing terrorist acts against the Palestinians ...I would expect that if the Palestinians would cease from all attacks of any kind there would be no more problem.

   Let's be honest and call a spade.. a spade..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Fazak

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2007, 11:45:42 AM »
There's not enough time to help people put all the dots together before the election.

And really, the ones who haven't done it already never will. Even Ron Paul said that he was surprised by the success that his campaign is generating,.... said that he thought it would take another 25 years for people to see the results of today's type of government.

I don't know whether Ron Paul's message will take root this time around or not, but his message has been said and it's on the record,... particularly his economic message.

And anybody who pays attention will see the economic issues that he's describing start to come to pass very shortly,.. in fact, some of them already have begun, but they're being hidden.

Many people don't realize that Ron Paul's primary platform is based on economics,.... and many don't even realize what kind of economic issues that the country is facing today,.. but they will soon enough.

Write it down.

Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2007, 03:43:29 PM »
Zionist Jews financed Hitler?  Is that what your saying? 

Columbia today and Columbia 40-50 years ago are not a relevant comparison.  Sudden veer to the left broke Arnold's leg awhile back!   

i'm whispering so no caps.... i'm making more money now than 8 years ago doing the same thing but i'm keeping it hidden.....shhhhhh




Offline billy_56081

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2007, 04:13:44 PM »
My Grandfathers cousins talked about the "Zionists". They were all Nazi's that served some as soldiers and some as engineers, under Hitler in WW2. They were no longer proud of their mistakes of there youth. When I here the term Zionist I think them and their service under the Nazi regime. I think we are delving into a terrible precedent here. The Nazi's and the German people were fooled by some fast talk of tyranny and an "evil enemy". I hope we are not delving into the same.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Fazak

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2007, 04:47:30 PM »


i'm whispering so no caps.... i'm making more money now than 8 years ago



You better hope so,... because that money you're getting is worth a heck of a lot less than it was 8 years ago.

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2007, 08:36:08 PM »
  Fazak;
       
               Money is worth less than it was 8 years ago..you are right for once..but then there is a certain amount of inflation built into the economic order.
 Considering the events of the last 8 years, it is remarkable that inflation has stayed so low.
       Considering the attack of 9/11 that could have destroyed our economy, a huge war effort and the rise in oil prices along with India & China competing with us globally for resources,the administration has done a remarkable job keeping the inflation down..especially with the booming stock market and low unemployment.

     Anyone who thinks inflation is a big problem right now, is either inexperienced, naive or has a poor memory ! When the people booted Carter out, he had inflation running at 20% per year and interest rates a 21% !

        Now that..is inflation !!         No one is eager to loan money out so they can lose on it, so interest rates have to lead the inflation rates.

    I was a young working man then with 2 boys . The wife and I had scraped and saved so that by the time Carter was elected, we had a decent sized nest egg.

      By the time Carter left office, that nest egg was worth barely 1/4 what it formerly was .

   If a savings account is being eaten up at the rate of nearly 20% per year..you do the math !

        What was Carter's excuse for such poor economic performance ? There was about 3-4 months worth of "oil crisis"...

   So, economically, the present administration isn't doing too bad.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline billy_56081

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2007, 03:21:01 AM »
No I'm not starting to see your point. I'm starting to worry that you are not a jester but someone that my grandfathers cousins warned me about.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2007, 07:21:22 AM »
Bill,

The line between the nuts and the squirrels is getting so blurred it's exceptionally difficult to tell the difference.

Dave

Offline jh45gun

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2007, 10:22:03 AM »
Thats OK TM7 you crack some of us up too so I guess we can all crack up together.  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline jh45gun

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2007, 11:33:46 AM »
If so I still have a long way to catch up to you.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o ;)
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2007, 12:25:13 PM »



Billy,,, you the one that said Zionists were killing Jews in Nazi germany as related by relatives. So I agree with you hoping you'd elaborate and you still have to pass an insinuation....what's up with that? You really crack me up....:D

..TM7



From what I remember my grandfathers cousins talking about the "Zionist Jews" the Nazi propaganda sounds alot like some people on here. I never said anything about Zionists killing Jews . They referred  to the Jews as Zionists.

99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2007, 03:26:51 PM »
I'd like to follow this.....but someone needs to turn off that bright light that's shining in my eyes! :o It makes it hard to see.  :o  (But I can hear just fine.....and the nuts are dropping all around me) ::)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2007, 03:56:57 PM »
   
   Well, I guess it is time to expose where all this talk about "Zionism" originated..

    The Russian secret police wrote an entirely fictional account of some ultra-rich, secret, high-level Jews plotting to take over the world. They did
    a very credible job for anyone that WANTS to believe such tripe.
        As Billy said, the Nazis really grabbed onto the book and used it's BS to further their murderous plans...

   This book was originally called " The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion ". It can be variously found under such names a "The Protocols of Zion"
 and other titles with "protocols Zion" in them...depending upon which hate group is propagating this old, many times disproven tale.
   
    First it was the Russians, excusing themselves for bringing down Communist thunder on the Jews..then it was the Nazis..justifying their murders..occasionally the KKK; but more lately the Muslims like ...Mahmood "I'madinnerjacket"... of Iran..

     Of course; no conspiracy theorist worthy of the name has, over the last 80-90 years been able to pass by this delectable bit of fiction !!

      ...And that my friends is where all the "Zionism" hysteria has grown from..

    I need say no more except to tell you guys to do a search for " Protocols of Zion"...and see what comes up...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2007, 04:32:14 PM »
I did a search on " Protocols of Nuts" and you would be suprised at what screen names come up. Nah....you really wouldn't be suprised at all. I was just kiddin. ;D

Dave

Offline jh45gun

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2007, 09:06:04 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong. I know little about Jews there are a few where I liive but not many in fact most of the the Jewish places of worship around here have closed due to lack of members. What I do seem to see is that a lot of folks hate the jews because of they were the race that killed the Son of God. Well some one had to if not them some other race would have had to because Christ had to Die for our Sins. If you are a Christian that is the belief so how can you hate some one that fullfilled Gods Plan???
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Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2007, 11:33:07 PM »

   jh45gun;

      No Christian that has even the least understanding of the Bible should blame the Jews . Yes, it was Jews that said "crucify Him, crucify Him "...but it was the Romans (Italians ?) that drove the nails and hoisted him up,..why is there not the same rage with them ?

   The answer: The Jews are the chosen of God, so Satan hates the Jews and gets witting or unwitting accomplices to do his dirty work...

    If you need further proof of the devil's hand..just look at what groups hate the Jew so much that they want to destroy him !!!

   

       More importantly; any Christian that points his finger at anyone else..accusing them of crucifying our Saviour, has 3 fingers pointing back at himself !

     Yes indeed, all of us who ever committed a sin bears responsibility for that crucifixion and as I see it...that includes everybody !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline jh45gun

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2007, 08:09:04 AM »
I never meant to imply I felt that way never have but I have heard some make that comment. As far as the Romans go if I remember right Pontius Pilot really did not want to deal with this at all if it was not for the jews havog a fit he would have let Christ go. Instead fearing a riot he did what the jews asked.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: How Tyranny Came to America
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2007, 12:05:20 PM »
jh45gun;

   I was in no way casting any doubt on what you said and yes, Pilate was inclined toward releasing Jesus. Some historians tend to believe that Pilate's wife may have been a
   Christian, possibly converted by her servants. It was her urging that moved Pilate in the direction of releasing Jesus .
   As far as ALL "the Jews"  crying for Christ's blood, not quite accurate, remember all but one of the Apostles were Jews !

        Still, there was a band of rabble that the Pharisees were able to assemble to drown out any competing voices, that called for His execution, not unlike 
        the rabble that someone was able to assemble at Columbia U. that stormed the stage screaming and forced the leader of the "Minute men'
   to forego his speaking engagement..That rabble didn't represent ALL Americans !
       
    Then too, while Jesus hung upon the cross he could have but said the word, and a Legion of angels would have come to set him free !
     ..But that was not God's plan; had Jesus succumbed to the desire to end the torture,we sinners would have no hope today,
       
     ..so He stayed there and He died..for you and me..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)