204 Handi Problems-- Range Report Added with 'Intawesting' Results

[McLernon]

I have been using H335 with the 32gr Vmax and getting pressure signs with mid loads. I even got two case head separations on 6 times used FLR brass. My son, using higher loads is not getting any pressure signs in his CZ but is getting 150 fps velocity variations that you can even call  by watching the variations in muzzle flash. He got cratering on the low velocity shots. So he switched to H322 and got some improvement but still too much variation in velocity, wrecking accuracy that is noticeable at 300 yards. The only constant in the whole matter is Winchester primers. I used to use Federal Gold Medal but switched because of WWB ammo success. Anyone else have this or similar experience?? I am going back to Federal to see how this affects the velocity/flash/accuracy. Maybe the 204 is finicky about ignition, I don't know.

Any comments appreciated.

Mc

[Fred M]

MC.
I would go with a 102% compressed load of Varget at about 53k. This will reduce the stretching of the action hence separations. In a Handi it is best to use powders on the slower side and stay close to 53kpsi.

At the very best of times 9 reloads will be about max case use. Max with H335
is 28.2 gr @ 58.5kpsi (Map) That is with 30.96 H2O case vol. I use Win primer a lot
they work very well with consistent ignition and a soft primer cup. If you have a lot of variation your hammer spring maybe too soft or too much resistance
in the ignition system.

Tune your hammer and firing pin as per my directions and have a new
hammer spring on hand.

[Ditchdigger]

I use H 322 in my 204 CZ with the 32 gr. ;Sierra and when I do my part,its very near a 1/4" gun. I use the max load of 27 grs. and both guns in 204 (Savage and CZ) shoot extremely well. Digger

[quickdtoo]

Mc, I did a couple searches in the 204 Reloading forum at rugerhunting, one for H335 and one for H4895, got 1 page of hits for the H335, but got 12 pages for the H4895, that's the powder that I chose and it works the best of the two powders I tried, better than any factory ammo I've shot. Check it out. If my search results link below dies, select Reloading the 204 Ruger from the forum list and search for H4895 or H335.

Tim

http://www.rugerhunting.com/forum/

http://www.rugerhunting.com/forum/search.php?keywords=H4895&terms=all&author=&fid%5B%5D=4&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

[Fred M]

The problem as I see it is that most every one of these loads are fired in a CZ, Savage, Rugers, Remington's,  #1 all with strong lock ups with no stretch.
Here we are talking about Handi rifles with their springy lock ups.

I selected the Varget load with that in mind.  I know from my 6x47Handi which uses the same case as the 204 how finicky some powders are with their particular
initial pressure curve. Varget has a very suitable pressure curve for the Handi in 204.
Besides it provides a full case with a light compression a plus for SD (Standard deviation). MC has trouble with H335 so that powder is of no use to him.

So if you want to suggest some loads they should be for a Handi. People with bolt guns can cross the red line without even knowing. 6x47 BR rifles were
often loaded 65-70 kpsi and loved it. Not so with a Handi.
One other important item is the case volume which vary from one make to another. One grain of water will change pressure considerable in a small case
like the 204.

At one time I claimed aload to be unsave in a204 when we had nearly four grains of H2o difference. This put his load in a proof load situation but not with 33.0gr H2o while my load was based on 29.0 gr of H2o and 30ksi difference. As far as I am concerned OPL (other peoples loads) are not for me.

[Ditchdigger]

You're probably right on it Fred,My CZ likes the Varget load very good also.But I think my CZ loves anything you shoot in it,except the 40 gr. Noslers,and they go about 1/2 ".    Digger

[McLernon]

Well we bought the H322 so we are going to try it with CCI BR primers and see what our SD is in the CZ. I have heard that the 204 likes  H4895 but I thought it would be too slow. I have some IMR 4895 on hand, so I wonder how it would do in my Handi as there is not much room taken up by the 32 gr bullet. Any comments? BTW the primer problems were in the CZ. The Handi just FLATTENED the primers and I mean FLAT so I think Fred is on to something as I am definitely over-pressure.

Thanks for all the response so far.

Mc

[quickdtoo]

Hodgdon show IMR4895 and H4895 to use the same load data for the 32gr Vmax, 27gr start and 29gr Compressed max, although the max pressure for IMR is a tad higher at 51.9kpsi compared to 51.1kpsi for the H. They use a COL of 2.250", Hornady brass and Fed 205M primers in both loads, their velocity in the 24" barrel is 3980fps for the H, and 3949fps for the IMR. I'd say one is as good as the other, cept the H is an Extreme powder, for what that's worth.

Tim

[McLernon]

Tim:

I think I'll give the IMR-4895 a try in the Handi. But I am going to work up from the bottom real slow like!

Mc

[quickdtoo]

Fred makes a good point about the Varget, it uses the same 27gr start and 29gr compressed max, but at considerably less pressure of 47.5kpsi, but at a 150-200fps loss in velocity, but if it makes up for it in accuracy, it may be worth it, depending on the ranges you anticipate to use it at.

Tim

[McLernon]

I hate to load down a cartridge like the 204. It's a speed demon. I'll try the IMR4895 and post a range report.

Mc 

[Fred M]

Mc.

Quote.
I hate to load down a cartridge like the 204. It's a speed demon.

In this case you better get yourself a rifle with a solid lock up.

[PHATINJUN]

I ended up using IMR4198 in my fluted 204 with 34gr Midway dog town bullets seated 2.275 with 22gr powder about 3700 fps sure made them prairie dogs go pop at 300yards. or the 32gr vmax seated 2.300 with 23.5 grains.Both shot very good in my bbl. Kurt

[McLernon]

Thanks folks!

Mc

[McLernon]

Fred and Tim:

I think you have something there regarding pressure. I tried the IMR-4195 starting at the bottom and working up in 0.2gr, increments. No pressure signs and got 1 MOA. I think I will now try the Varget. I think that at high pressures these Handi's can perform as if something is 'loose'. Lower the pressure and they behave as if they are 'tight'.

Duh! I have seen it and now I believe it.

Mc