.223???????

[bub524]

I don't want to start a big argument here, but I REALLY like my AR-15 and would really like to use it for deer hunting. Will be hunting in WI so the deer are fairly tough. Used to hunt with a .243 with no problems. My AR shoots anything from 45g to 69g to half inch group or better at 100yds. 1" at 200. So its plenty accurate. I just don't know if its big enough. I know it will take down a human with no trouble so it should do the same on a deer of similar weight with a properly placed shot.
Any experience with this?

[statelinerut]

I know in Texas the 223 is used quite often. The only thing I would suggest is using a soft point bullet and stay away from any ballistic type round. Remington makes a good pointed soft point in the core lock brand. Like I always say a 223 will do the job on a whitetail as long as you stay away from the shoulder and and take out both lungs.

[Graybeard]

Personally I don't even trust a .243 so you'll get no approval from me to do it but yeah a lot of folks do.

[bub524]

Personally I don't even trust a .243 so you'll get no approval from me to do it but yeah a lot of folks do.

A few years back I shot a nice 9 point 210lb. buck with a 243 here in northern WI. He ran about 50 yds. Took out both lungs and the heart. He was about 65-75 yds. away. I'm not a big recoil fan. Too old for all that childish magnum nonsense. Too tired to drag them anymore so we had to get a little 4 wheeler.

[jhm]

Yes you hear about the ones the were killed by the smaller cal. however you NEVER seem to hear about the ones that were NEVER recovered because of the small calibers.   JIM

[statelinerut]

Yeah but those that were lost would have probably been lost with a larger caliber as well. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter what the caliber. I know every now and then there may be the exception, but for the most part if an animal is running with both lungs gone he is dead. Most are lost to poor shot placement and poor tracking skills.

[beemanbeme]

Jim, you beat me to it.  You only hear about the spectacular kills, never the spectacular failures.
 "childish magnum nonsense"  Now there is a fellow with some serious issues. 

[billy_56081]

Try a 60 grain partition if you are going to use it.

[bub524]

"childish magnum nonsense"   

Said in jest I assure you.
 Where I have hunted all my life, central and northern WI most deer hunting can easily be done very effectively with a 30-30. I personally have never seen the need for a magnum rifle here. I'm sure they have their place, just not the guns for me. Too loud, too much recoil. I shoot about 200 rounds a week and miss maybe 3 weeks a year that I don't shoot. I learned long ago that the less recoil you absorb the more time at the range you can enjoy. At my age I don't need something to shake my bones, they do it enough as is.

[ronbow]

The 5.56 was the original version of the .223 Rem. The 5.56 in military version was a 55 grain round that traveled at over 3000 FPS. This high speed is what makes it so lethal. If you go to a .223 round (not the same as a 5.56mm) for hunting you are probably gonna use a heavier bullet (but still very small compared to a .30 cal) that will have a much lower speed. So with that in mind why would you wanna use a .223 on deer sized animals that are light years tougher than a human ?

[rickt300]

If your going to take broadside rib cage and neck shots it will work OK. The problem is that in cold country the deers coat and hide gets pretty thick and in brushy country you might not get just the right shot for the 223 to perform well on. The 223 works to a degree here in Texas because the deer are smaller, aren't toughened by cold and a lot of them are shot near feeders.

[K.K]

Personally, I would never shoot a deer with a .223, I know that there have been piles of deer killed with them, but it is much too iffy, in my opinion. If you like to hunt with you AR, why not check out some of the uppers out there and get one chambered for, say 308, 260, or even the 300 WSM, or 450 Bushmaster? The milder cartridges hedge your bet and won't pound you. The bigger ones are even better. I know that there are many who may disagree, but our game deserves a clean, humane kill, and the chances of doing this are greatly increased if you use a caliber and load suited for the job. Just my 2c!

[victorcharlie]

It's legal here in Tennessee.......given the right shot with a good bullet at the right range then why not?

If I had something else better to shoot then I would....

If all I had was a .223 then I'd use it......

Are there better choices?  You betcha......

[LEO]

I have killed a few deer with the AR-15 in 223.  I have used 55 grain soft points and 45 grain hollow points.  With the 55 grain soft points, I only took standing broadside shots.  The 45 grain hollow points were used to shoot the deer at the base of the skull to insure an instant drop with no exit once again only on standing still animals.  With that said, I never had a soft point exit the deer and had very little if any blood trail, the deer usually went less than 50 yards but in a thick area they could have been difficult to recover with out the blood trail.  Obviously none of the deer shot with the hp round went anywhere.  The deer I shot were in the 75 to 150 lb weight range and the shots were all less than 100 yards.  They were all damage control or study type kills so there was no pressure or "hunt excitement" involved, it was basically like shooting a paper target so it was easy to get the "perfect" shot placement.  While the 223 will certainly kill a deer, I wouldn't recommend it for actual hunting situations unless you are willing to wait for the absolute perfect shot angle and pass up anything less, it sounds like you are an experienced hunter so you may be willing to do this and based on you shooting 200 rounds a week your marksmanship should be finely honed.  As someone else suggested, I think I would look at the Nosler Partition bullet, it is probably less likely to blow up on the ribs and you might even get an exit which would give you a better chance of a blood trail.  Hope this helps

[rickt300]

When I was much younger and the 223 was not as common as now I bought one in a Model 788 Remington. I used it on a several whitetails using the military 55 grain bullet, the 60 grain Hornady Soft points and Hollow points. The best bullet was the 60 grain Hollow point, it penetrated well enough. Several years ago I had a hand in reducing a deer herd that was practically starving and had been for years due to drought. These deer were all skinny and sickly but the ammo we used worked very well. It was more of the 55 grain fmj military stuff. It did a lot of damage tumbling and breaking apart on these small deer. I could see why the round was considered a real killer in Viet Nam. My rifle was a 16 inch barreled AR15.

[SHOOTALL]

here in Va. nothing smaller than .23 cal is legal , there must be a good reason , then again they allow the 32mag in a rifle along with a 30 carbine .
if you like the AR get a 6.8 spc upper ! 27 cal .  or 7.62X39 !

[ccoker]

I have seen a LOT of Texas whitetail killed with a 223
like the others said, with the right bullet and shot placement, meet in the freezer

I like the 64g sp from Federal (tactical rifle urban)

that said, I prefer something with a little more punch, a 243 or higher

deer aren't that tough and as long as you are a good shot and pass on less than ideal shots and keep your range within reason, sure

growing up my dad and his buds favored light and fast for South Texas whitetails and hogs.....
they were highly skilled marksman and shot a LOT and if they put the crosshairs on something, it was dead
99% of my dad's shots were neck shots and when  that that old Sako 22-250 barked it was cleaning time

[emsemt911]

I use mine with the Nosler Partition 60gr.  Shot placement is critical just like any other round.
I have shot coyotes, whitetail, rams, wild hogs with the round.  Have yet to loose one.

[mcwoodduck]

My uncle would hunt deer in NY with his .222 Rem Mag.  Since the 60's  Basically a .223 ballistics.   As long as the shot was broad side and the shot was in the boiler room the effects were dramatic.  Usually the bullet came apart on a rib and would shred the lungs and heart.   I think he used a 55 gain soft point, and did not chase many if any deer as they usually folded right there.  There was never an exit wound.  The shot should not be over 75 to 80 yards. 
I agree with the others and would use the 60 grain Partition loaded by Federal.  I just picked some up for my T/C and a javilina hunt I have in Feb.
The only problem I have is hunting with a semi auto.  I took my garand into the field and pumped 8 rounds into a doe as she did not fold right away.  The 1/2 second to reload the bolt is enough time to see effects of the shot.  With the auto the split second it takes to reload you don't always see an effect.  I was also young then and thought I missed till I took off one of the legs.  She ended up with 6 rounds in the boiler room 1 in the neck and one in the front leg.  With the little .223 you may want to double tap any deer if it starts to move after the shot.  look to break the shoulder and anchor him.
  The other question is it legal in WI to use a .22 cal to deer hunt?  Some states state a minimum bullet diameter.  If not what do you think of getting a 6.8 upper and put some more mass in to the critter and use a 130 grain soft point?

[Hooker]

If it's legal and you are willing to live within the limitations of that round I say go for it. All cartridges have their limitations so we must do our job as hunters first and pull the trigger only when we have finished that job.

Pat 

[s_hawk]

The Axis in my avatar was killed with .223 Handi Rifle shooting Hornady V-Max Molys. I was moving through some mesquite and Cedar into the wind. A doe and yearling moved about 35 yds. in front of me so I kneeled down. He walked out seconds later and I dropped him with a neck shot. I like the .223 and use it stalk hunting in the Texas Hill Country.
Hawk

[rockbilly]

I have killed deer with a .22 short back in the 50s when times were hard, and I took a deer occasionally (headlight) to put meat on the table, but today I would not recommend a .223, or allow on to be used on my property. 

Why do I feel this way........several years ago I managed a large piece of land and leased it to 12 hunters.  Over the years I heard more tales of lost deer, and spent more time looking for deer that were shot with the .22 class round than you can imagine.  Everything from the .22 to 22-250 crossed the cattle gap into the place at some time, and I had one hunter that showed up with a .17 Remington. (I loaned him a 6.5x55).  After several years I put a stop to the .22 class guns, and allowed nothing smaller than a .243 (I have used a .243 successfully for well over 30 years).  In doing so I stopped a lot of the late night searches for injured deer and witnessed a better kill ratio for the hunters. 

By no means am I saying that a .223 will not do the trick, it is not the bullet, but the shooter that generally presents the problem, but most hunters are better off, and will have better success rates with a larger caliber.

[papitt]

I've used the 223 on a lot of deer...all in where you put the bullet..I once killed one at 440 yd in it's neck I still have the bullet ...it actually a 222 but same bullet ..I've also got a wild hog I shot with my 223 ..It weighted 454 lb dressed ....then there was the day I lost my 1st mule deer buck ..It was shot w/ a 300 win at about 125 yds..tracked it for 2 miles couldn't find it ....So some days are dimonads some are rocks.........

[rockbilly]

papitt.  It is all about bullet placement.  It the right hands a .223 can be a very effective rifle, but due to the small bullet weight it does not allow for too much error in bullet placement.  Like the elk you shot with the 300 mag, I would bet you mad a gut shot, or fail to hit a vital organ, otherwise it would have been meat on the table.

A .223 is adequate in the hands of an experienced hunter/shooter, but most people do not have the time in the field, or have not spent the time on the range to make it an effective big game weapon.  JMHO!

[PartsMan]

Some guys around here like the Winchester 64g soft point.
That or the partition should be fine for a broadside heart/lung shot.

[Don Fischer]

I can assure you that with the right bullet and shot placement the 250 Savage will drop the largest baddest bear that walks. I don't know anybody that might try it. Now lets assume that your Wisconsin deer were real bad tempered if wounded. Would you still think of using a 223?

[Mohawk]

  It is used quite often here in the Texas Hill country as well as equally comparible cartridges. Our family property is in Burnet county near Marble Falls and everytime I talk to some of our distant neighbors they seem to use nothing more than a .270. South Texas is different, but for hunting when your shots are "up close and personal", I feel the .223 is very adequate. The only deer I harvested this year was a doe, meat deer, and I used a 9-pellet 00 buckshot load. VERY effective within its range. Funny thing. 00 buckshot is not used very much at all in TX. The guy at the meat locker asked me how many time i shot this deer....    He noticed 9 pellets holes and seemed confused...Very Funny. Would have made a great You Tube video. To be honest, personally, I have never used anything on deer less than a .243, that worked very well, but that is just my experience.

[Brian T]

I do not advise it but if you are going to hunt deer with the 223 use the Corbon DPX round and get close.  I know of several deer that have been harvested with it

[Mohawk]

  Remington soft-point core-lockt------55gr work just fine. They are proven. Not that Corbon's are inferior, but that whole "stopping power" crowd is a joke in my opinion and it appears that Corbon is affiliated.

[yooper77]

243 Winchester with 100 grain bullet is a go, I approve, yes, been there done that will do it again!

I personally don't approve any 22 caliber center fire cartridge for the taking of any big game animals.

If I had to choose a 22 caliber center fire cartridge it would have to be minimum case length of the 22-250 Remington (I don't like the 223 WSSM, yuck!) using only the 60 grain Nosler Partition bullet.  The shot would have to be within 300 yards and a quartering away or broadside standing calm deer shot.  This is the same shot i choose for my 243 Winchester, if I cant get that shot I don't shoot.

yooper77