Author Topic: An Interesting Conversation...  (Read 694 times)

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Offline chad1043

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An Interesting Conversation...
« on: September 15, 2007, 03:38:15 PM »
I have started an interesting conversation over there... Might be worth checking out...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=152581


Chad

Offline trotterlg

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2007, 04:15:33 PM »
Well Chad...............................I hate to tell you, I owne both also, you will wish you bought the Stevens.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline chad1043

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2007, 04:20:35 PM »
Um, no I won't... Plastic... Ugly... No character... If someone mentions accuracy... I will am you back to the shooting results from this article again...


http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97money.html


Offline quickdtoo

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2007, 04:22:52 PM »
Well Chad...............................I hate to tell you, I owne both also, you will wish you bought the Stevens.  Larry

I wouldn't count on that! The quote below is from a Savage/Stevens owner in a discussion at another site.

Tim

Quote
For almost two years now I've been a Savage Stevens advocate.Looking at things objectively, however, things (me) are changing.

The 12VBss-s shoots like a charm. The accutrigger hangs up or sticks about every fourth or fifth shot. One of my four Stevens Mod 200s does the same thing, with the old style trigger.

Two maybe three of the Stevens had feeding problems. The 22-250 was so unmanagable I cobbled up a single shot follower for it. Two of them when actuating the bolt allowed the cartridge to jump up so the rear end of the case was higher than the bolt and would jam. Intentionally rapidly ( really fast) slaming the bolt forward helped a lot. Slow? Forget it.

My .270 Stevens suffers dramaticly from bore fouling.

For shooting paper I guess these problems are livable. For dependable field rifles they do not measure up. I'm sure with a little work the situuations can be bettered but for someone to take the rfiles out of the box and be used reliably it's a crap shoot. roger


"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline handirifle

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2007, 09:16:41 PM »
I do not currently own the 223 UV, I did have one for a couple years and when i found the right load, it shot little clusters at 100yds, very accurate.  I did notice quite a variation, however, on loads it didn't like, and I really have never had the issues many speak about as far as resting on the receiver, etc.  I hold and rest my rifles just under the forearm screw.  That's how I hunt and shoot, and if my rifles do not conform to MY style, they go down the road.

I also have a savage 11FL.  This is not a stevens, but my understanding is the stevens is simply the older version of Savage.  I have one savage over 30years old and another over 20.   The 11 FL is about 3 yrs old.  While the accu trigger is very nice, I cannot say it was much better than the trigger I had on the UV.

One big difference I noticed right off the bat, was the savage was very accurate with a greater variety of loads.  POI might change, some, but group size was always 1.5 or so.  The loads it liked are usually under 1".

While the handi is a true switch barrel/ caliber rifle, it can also be accomplished in the savage/stevens line.  Sometime very simple, sometimes not so simple, but never as easy as the Handi is.

I have one that started life as a 30-06, not now has a 338-06 A Square barrel residing on it.  I have a 243, that has stayed that way ,and the 11FL that started as 223 and now is also a 243.

Here is a pic of how it groups Federal power Shok 100gr factory ammo.  Group size is 0.179" for 3 shots.  This is this rifles pet load.



The UV did just aswell with it's pet load, which was H335 behind a Hornady 40gr Vmax bullet.
Good luck on your choice.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline cascadedad

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2007, 09:34:35 PM »
Um, no I won't... Plastic... Ugly... No character...

This group definitely knows about ugly!!!   ;D ;D ;D

Offline handirifle

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2007, 10:11:11 PM »
Um, no I won't... Plastic... Ugly... No character...

This group definitely knows about ugly!!!   ;D ;D ;D

Hey I resemble that remark!
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline greg916

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2007, 11:00:34 PM »
I recently looked at the Stevens rifle. It appears to be nothing more than the Savage 110E with a plastic stock. I have a 110E 30-06, the most accurate rifle I own. The first 3 shots from a bench at 100 yards will overlap each other then the group will start to open up as the barrel heats, but will shoot 10 shots into about an inch. The trigger is fairly easy to adjust with 3 screws, one for pull weight, one for overtravel, and the last for safety adjustment.

I chose the Handi for two reasons. It had 4" longer barrel, and frankly, I thought it looked better than the Stevens ;D ;D
OSTENDO NON OSTENDO

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2007, 11:57:51 PM »
I have a 223 Ultra Varmint and I have 2 Stevens 200's that started out life as 223's. I have not found a load that will shoot tiny 5 shot holes with the Ultra, but I have not found that with either of the Stevens either. On my Stevens, I only shot it a few times before I decided the trigger needed help and bought an after market trigger (Rifle Basix) for it. Then about the same time, I was able to get a SS Fluted A&B barrel for it with a barrel wrench for $100, so I switched out the barrels and trigger. The 2nd Stevens, I did not even try to shoot it. I bought a 221 Fireball barrel and a Rifle Basix trigger. I converted both of the to single shots with an aluminum follower single shot tray. Here is a day at the range with the heavy SS 223 barrel.



I recently have pulled the 221 Fireball barrel and put back on one of the stock barrels I have. I did this to save weight, much thinner barrel, not because the 221 FB shot badly. It shot very well.  I have not found a load it likes real well yet. I think over all the H&R Ultra shoots better than the stock Stevens. Even though I have not got tiny little groups with the Ultra, I think overall it handles different loads better. I can get 1.5" groups with about anything in the Ultra, with the Stevens, I have only gotten 2" groups, but I am still in the development stages. I have some new loads ready to go as I write this. I have not done a lot of development for the Ultra either, I just have this "feeling" that the Ultra is not tack driving accurate but does not shoot anything real bad. The Stevens needs load development just as the Ultra does. I think overall the Ultra looks better that the stock Stevens. Now if you want to sink more money into the Stevens, you can really make them a nice looking tack driver (see picture below) , but like I said it will cost you in weight as well as the pocket book. These are my experiences.



Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 12:16:17 AM »
I forgot to mention that the Stevens 200 barrel has a long throat just as the Ultra has. It takes a 60 grain V-Max to reach the lands seated way out. It has about .200 sticking into the neck (about the length of the neck) when touching the lands. 55 grain bullets of any kind I tried (5 kinds) will not reach the lands in the Stevens or the Ultra. I have not tried a 60 V-max in my Ultra yet.
Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline Mac11700

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2007, 06:38:13 AM »


The one nice thing that I like about the Ulta's over any bolt gun...is the way they balance & feel in my hands..I own a few bolt guns..and have owned dozens and have handled more Stevens rifles than I can to admit...In their stock form..they don't balance and feel good to me...I know this is a subjective opinion...but never the less...is my reality. The problem with the Stevens for me...is that out the last 20 of them I have handled...all of them...had major flaws that would keep me from buying them...From loose or missing parts..to barrels riding along one side of the stock so hard you couldn't push a business card between..some with bolts binding so bad I thought I was handling some cheap Russian gun...Now...I know there are some that have been assembled correctly and are excellent shooters..I know of a couple...but...to see first hand this many with this many major issues at various gun shops...makes me wonder just how much lack of quality control they have there...and if perhaps there are some who are doing this purposely at Savage...Stranger things have happened...Could these rifles have been made to shoot good...? Some of them...I'm sure....but...I wouldn't want to chance it on many of them...and one isn't expected to have to do so...on any rifle they purchase...It is more of how far a person is willing to go on each...and what feels good to them...that will be the deciding factor...My higher priced Savage 308 10 FP is a prime example...I could have spent a great deal of money on it to get it into a real nice stock..and spent additional money on bedding it...and loosing that ( IMHO) P.O.C. accu trigger... Sure...it was plenty accurate enough...but there are things I really dislike about the way it felt...and looked...and functioned for me to be willing to invest in it...plus...add to my feelings...knowing full well I could never re-coup the time & money invested in it unless I sold it and all the extras out right...other wise I would take a major loss on trading it in...To be fair...I do invest some time & some money into the Handi's I own...But the returns I see with so little invested makes them more viable to me...My custom rifles are exceptional and I am proud to own them...and know..that I can re-coup what I have invested in them...even on a trade at the gun shops around here...They are scary accurate when feed good ammo...but...do have some character deficiencies...that shows up at the bench...if steps aren't followed properly...but...shooting in the field as with any other rifle..not noticeable for me.

Basically...what I am saying is...If your in the market for a good bolt gun...buy one...The Stevens isn't a good investment...and while many will shoot the eyes out of gnats at 200 yards...one can expect to have issues with them...that may not be easily repaired...If you have your heart set on a Savage...then buy a Savage...spend the little extra and get a better product...If your in the market for a good dependable single shot...the Ultra will most likely exceed your expectations...If for some reason it doesn't...there is a great support group here...and a outstanding Customer Service group just a phone call away that will go out of their way to make you a Handi-holic in no time...

That's my $.02

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline handirifle

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2007, 10:30:32 AM »
A couple other points.  The UV's now come with a 1-9 twist barrel, like the stevens as well.  Over at the savageshooters.com forum, I do seem to recall most seem to buy the Stevens as a base for a project rifle like mac described.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline EVOC ONE

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Re: An Interesting Conversation...
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2007, 10:45:50 AM »
I also had a feeding problem with my Stevens .243 just as others described.  The cartridge would jump out of the gun from the rear as the bolt made contact with it.  Slamming the bolt hard would achieve success, but that didn't seem right.

Turned out the magazine follower was not in a proper position to allow feeding.  It didn't look like it was out of position and there is not much of a noticeable difference in the position it's in now, but it was out enough to cause mis-feeding.  I've not had any problems since.

Hopefully, I've dodged a bullet with this one.