Author Topic: What do you think of the 450 Marlin? (Read 2127 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** September 16, 2007, 09:42:57 AM »

What do you guy's think of the 450 Marlin? How accurate is it? Will it shoot MOA or better? What do you think of the 18.5'' barrel? Thanks Dale http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895M.aspx

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2007, 11:31:08 PM »

whatever can be said about a marlin in 4570 can be said about the 450 and that includes accuracy. Down falls are finding brass or ammo and the one nice thing is the smooth way they load into the gun. other then that its about a toss up.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2007, 04:12:39 AM »

I'm thinkin' : I've had some kinda .45-70, since 1975, and then I hadda try a .450 when it was first introduced ! Ya know - hot off the grill, the latest thing, the end-all-to-be-all, etc, etc, etc.

I used it for a year, then sold it - because I felt "restricted". (I don't handload)

Now I own/use .45-70's again - just like an old pair of slippers.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #3 on:** September 19, 2007, 11:05:33 AM »

You might ask AKPLS about it. He has (had?) one and took at least one moose with it.

-WH-

Rev Buck · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2007, 02:03:07 PM »

I have a .450 with the 18.5 inch barrel and I love it. I've taken a good black bear and a couple of deer with it. It is plenty accurate but a little harder to hold on target with the short barrel. That being said it will shoot MOA if you can hold it there. I also have a .45/70 with a longer barrel and I am crazy about them both. Rev

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2007, 05:56:35 AM »

Dale,
since getting my 1895GS I have learned something about the Marlin 450. For one thing the rifle is stronger than the 45-70, in so far as the threads on the receiver are a different design than the 45-70. It's the same design as the new 308 Marlin Express uses. I learned this after asking if a 336 could be converted to a 308MX and was told no, and the thread design was why. To my knowledge, the receivers are the same otherwise.

The newer design is stronger.

If you look at the specs on the Hornady Leverevolution ammo and compare the 45-70 to the 450 Marlin, you'll notice about 150fps advantage to the 450. It's loaded to higher pressures than the 45-70, thus the difference.

If you reload, I'd actually suggest the 450 over the 45-70, because all bullets, in the Marlin, are cross compatible, and should you desire to punish yourself, you can most likely load the 450 to a slightly higher velocity.

You cannot, however, get a 450 Marlin guide gun in stainless, should that be a desire. No one seems to know why either.

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2007, 06:13:45 AM »

Quote from: handirifle on September 21, 2007, 05:56:35 AM

If you look at the specs on the Hornady Leverevolution ammo and compare the 45-70 to the 450 Marlin, you'll notice about 150fps advantage to the 450. It's loaded to higher pressures than the 45-70, thus the difference.

The only reason the 450 Marlin LeverEvolution ammo is loaded to a higher pressure than the 45-70 Gov't LeverEvolution ammo is that the SAAMI pressure specification is 43,500 psi for the 450 Marlin and 28,000 psi for the 45-70 Gov't. Hornady is a member of SAAMI. It has nothing to do with the strength of Marlin lever guns. The safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 of 40,000 CUP (approx. 42,732 psi) was well established in the literature well before the 450 Marlin was introduced. The 45-70 at 40,000 CUP exerts roughly the same forces on the 1895 action as the 450 Marlin does at 43,500 psi as the 45-70 has a larger cross sectional area interfacing the bolt. When loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns the 450 Marlin and 45-70 Gov't are virtual ballistic equivalents.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:01:35 PM »

The .450 Marlin is the answer to a problem that doesn't really exist......

rusty shackelford · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:27:50 PM »

buy them both 450 and a 45/70

they both have there good side and bad side
I have both and love-m both .

rusty

handirifle · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2007, 05:00:36 PM »

Quote from: EsoxLucius on September 21, 2007, 06:13:45 AM

Quote from: handirifle on September 21, 2007, 05:56:35 AM
If you look at the specs on the Hornady Leverevolution ammo and compare the 45-70 to the 450 Marlin, you'll notice about 150fps advantage to the 450. It's loaded to higher pressures than the 45-70, thus the difference.
The only reason the 450 Marlin LeverEvolution ammo is loaded to a higher pressure than the 45-70 Gov't LeverEvolution ammo is that the SAAMI pressure specification is 43,500 psi for the 450 Marlin and 28,000 psi for the 45-70 Gov't. Hornady is a member of SAAMI. It has nothing to do with the strength of Marlin lever guns. The safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 of 40,000 CUP (approx. 42,732 psi) was well established in the literature well before the 450 Marlin was introduced. The 45-70 at 40,000 CUP exerts roughly the same forces on the 1895 action as the 450 Marlin does at 43,500 psi as the 45-70 has a larger cross sectional area interfacing the bolt. When loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns the 450 Marlin and 45-70 Gov't are virtual ballistic equivalents.

I really see no need to get defensive. call Marlin, I did and they will tell you the thread design in the 450 is stronger than the one on the 45-70. just like the 308MX, same design.

I'm not arguing the 45-70 cannot be loaded up to the same levels, was just stating the FACT that the 450M rifle is built to stronger standards than the 1895, just because of the thread design. That was all I was stating. Personally, I have an 1895GS and love it. It will most likely handle loads I would not want to shoot, but facts are still facts, about the rifle and that was my point.

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2007, 01:59:47 PM »

A few years from now someone will post........

"I found a lever action rifle in the used gun rack at my local pawn shop marked .450 Marlin. I have 3 questions. What is it? Where can I find some brass?, can it be converted into another caliber?"

K.K · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2007, 01:20:04 PM »

I'll admit that it doesn't have the romance of the 45-70, but I love mine. I killed my first buck with one, and I will never sell it. It is fast-handling, accurate, and hard-hitting enough for anything on this continent. I must admit, that I also having something "a little different" on the rack at deer camp, lined up next to everyone else's 30-30s, .270s, and 30-06s. There is still ammo available, save your brass if you reload, and if you don't you won't find many 45-70 loads that equal it except the expensive Garret, or Buffalo Bore stuff. I'll concede that the 45-70 can be more versatile if you want lighter-kicking loads, but you'll have to search for a 45-70 factory load that will equal it, unless you are paying big bucks, or have a specialty gun shop.

300winman · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:43:33 AM »

Swampman, didn't you post that same line a few years ago?

? And there is now more ammo and more guns chambered in 450 marlin. Give up already, really. We get it you love your 45-70, hope it keeps you warm at night. There is enough room for more than 1 458 caliber. Look at how many 30 and 7mm calibers there are. Its funny how some people have the fear that the 450 marlin will replace their beloved 45-70. Its just another 458 cal. just like the 458 win mag. And who give a rats @$$ if there is 10 or 20 different 458 chamberings?

?? Its all good because it gives us choices. Heres something new, if you don't like the topic, don't respond to it!!!

300winman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:34:31 AM »

Sorry Dale, got a little off subject last post. I have owned a couple 450 marlins now for 6 years. I love the round and has suited me well. The guide gun can be a little rowdy, and is a good brush gun. But not one for all day range sessions. I personally like my H&R ultra in 450 marlin. The weight of the 22" barrel tames the recoil a bit. So I would recommend an 1895 MXLR(actually thinking of getting one myself) for the longer barrel if you are going to be doing some shooting with it. But if it isn't going to be a weekly shooter, the guide gun will work great for ya. The gun will shoot tight groups at 100 yds, if you scope it out and get a feel for the gun. I shoot around 2-3" groups at a 100 yds with the marlin, sometimes better, sometimes worse, depending on how my shoulder feels. I do much better with my H&R w/ leupold 4x.

HL · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:59:05 AM »

Many, Many different chamberings. I Love Choice!!

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2007, 11:17:11 AM »

"Its funny how some people have the fear that the 450 marlin will replace their beloved 45-70."

That will never happen......the cartridge is a bad choice for anyone.

300winman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:01:45 PM »

Swampman, you just proved my point with your response. The 450 marlin is not here to replace the 45-70, merely just another 458 cal cartridge on the market. You have nothing to add about accuracy, gun quality, or even a range report to discredit this cartridge. Your fear of the 450 marlin replacing the 45-70 gives you a biased judgement of a perfectly good cartridge. Therefore your statements don't have value and have no useful place here. Your as bad as someone else (here at GBO) that puts down the the 45-70 and 450 marlin and proclaims the 458 win mag as greatest 458 cal. I say there is room for all them and more. And those that don't like it, deal with it.

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:19:54 PM »

I still wonder why Marlin chose to create a new round that simply duplicated the already enormously popular .45-70? Much like their new .308 cartridge it was an answer to a non-existent question.

There is no problem with the rifle, it's rechambered 1895 .45-70 Marlin. The accuracy I'm sure is as good as the .45-70 because the projectiles are the same and the velocity is the same. The .450 won't be with us long so that's why I hate to see people buy one and get stuck with ammo. avalibility problems..

300winman · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:40:23 PM »

As I have wrote before, I found 450 marlin ammo from Portland, OR to Coldwater, MI and most places in between. Definitely easier and cheaper to find than 458 winmag ammo these days. But no one discredits that cartridge. I own guns chambered in 280 rem and 445 sm that are really hard to find ammo for, but no one discredits them as being "bad" cartridges. 257 roberts-25/06-257 weatherby, 7mm/08-7x57-280rem , 308-30/06-308 marlin express, 300 winmag-300h&h-300 weatherby-300wsm. There are tons of simular cartridges out there, and each has a place in our world of shooting, why not the 450 marlin??

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:05:09 PM »

Common cartridges like the ones you mentioned will continue to have available brass for as long as we can still own guns.

Weird proprietary cartridges normally become very hard to get as soon as rifle production stops.

300winman · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:44:25 PM »

All these cartridge were "Weird proprietary cartridges" at some point in time. In 2000 your statements would be true(well about half), when there was one gun and one round. But today, 7 years later,there are multiple guns chambered in 450, even winchester had the '94 timber in 450 marlin,and multiple loads to purchase. Most "Weird proprietary cartridges" die in the first couple years, the 450 marlin is picking up steam. I've been listening to the 450 bashing for 7 years, how long must a cartridge be around before you'll stop wishing it away?

Come back with your argument when guns and ammo are stopped being made in 450 marlin. I have a feeling your going to be waiting a long time.

Keith L · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2007, 02:23:15 PM »

Why argue about it? The market will decide how long this cartridge is made. When it is no longer profitable to keep it on the market it will be gone. All the discussiion in the world here won't make it go sooner or keep it any longer.

300winman · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2007, 02:39:21 PM »

Right you are keith!!!! I came here to give some solid advice on the 450 marlin, and then got pulled in the OLD argument of how long the 450 marlin will be around. I wish the 45/70 fanatics would stop hijacking these threads. I don't go to the 45/70 threads and bash the 45/70 for 2 reasons:

1. 45/70 is a great round and doesn't deserve it.
2. I will not lower myself to that level of ignorance-to put down another cartridge to make me feel good about mine.

Enough said.

Dale if you are still reading this, I apologize for the way this thread turned out. This thread hijacking to push personal agenda is really starting to suck. Seems like every other thread anymore.

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2007, 11:48:33 PM »

Oops! I didn't realize the facts would upset folks. I'm sure the .450 Marlin is as good as the .45-70, it will be missed by some.

300winman · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2007, 12:03:40 AM »

Swampman, I have presented facts, you have not, only personal agenda bs. Where is the basis for your statements?

You have no factual evidence to back your claims. Most people call that talking out of your ***. Plus you hijacked the thread and gave responses that had no bearing on the topic. The only fact that has irritated the people here is your ignorance.

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2007, 11:14:56 AM »

I'm sure the .450 Marlin is as good as the .45-70, it will be missed by some.

K.K · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2007, 01:47:44 PM »

Hey guys, I have an idea...Why don't we all buy the guns and calibers that we like, and leave it at that? New cartridges and guns keep our sport fresh and alive as well as interesting. Let's remember that the 30-30, 30-06, and 45 ACP were all new cartridges at one time. If you like something, buy it, if you don't leave it on the rack. That's what make the world go around!

300winman · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2007, 02:01:48 PM »

I agree K.K. But the subject here had no mention of the 45/70. And swampman obviously has no experience with the 450 marlin. So why respond??? He did not come here to give insight, he came here to hijack this thread and push his personal preference on people.

Edited by quickdtoo
No name calling, please!
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,54070.0.html

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2007, 03:19:22 PM »

Actually I answered the question.

"What do you think of the 450 Marlin?"

It won't be around long enough to matter what we think. No attempt to derail the thread was made.

300winman · « **Reply #29 on:** November 01, 2007, 04:49:05 PM »

Actually it was "What do you guy's think of the 450 Marlin? How accurate is it? Will it shoot MOA or better? What do you think of the 18.5'' barrel?" Directed towards people that own one and have experience with it. You neither own or have experience with one, so you have nothing to bring to this thread. You did derail this thread, and are continuing to do so. No one has responded,on subject, to this thread since your incoherent rambling started. I have stayed only to show the lack of knowledge you have on the subject of the 450 marlin. But really your doing a pretty good job of proving your ignorance. Any person that reads this thread, will likely never hold you in high stature of firearms knowledge, not that they ever did.