Author Topic: Would you sell .300 WM for a .35 Whelen? (Read 10298 times)

Questor · « **Reply #30 on:** September 19, 2007, 05:17:27 AM »

Dixie Dude:

You're too much like me. Your mind says 300 and your heart says 35. Get the 35. Go for it!!! and don't look back!!!

I waffled about whether to get a .338 or a .375 and ended up getting the 375. Sometimes I have regrets, but the pass quickly when I realize that I really like the 375.

Personally, if I were in the market for the 35 Whelen, I'd get it, sell the 300, and then at a later date replace the 300 with a smaller bore rifle with a flatter trajectory that's used for long range shooting, like a 25-06 or 270.

IRA51 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 20, 2007, 01:57:45 PM »

This is so simple , tell him you need to shoot the rifle first . if you like it then you can make a change ,if not it cost you a box of ammo and the time to clean it B4 you return it . you don't want to burn your bridges with the Remmy. the 300 win mag is a good all around round and will do the job . the way I see it is if the .35 meet's you approval just buy it and keep the .300 .

Mckie Hollow · « **Reply #32 on:** September 20, 2007, 02:31:09 PM »

I would never sell a 300Mag. for a 35 Whelen, But I would own both. If You like it - Buy it and enjoy Both!!!!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 20, 2007, 05:45:28 PM »

NO way, I would keep the 300 Win Mag.

Brithunter · « **Reply #34 on:** September 22, 2007, 12:13:19 AM »

Hi All,

OH Greybeard, yes it can and does happen, though don't spread it about. I have a reputation to uphold

.

Quote

You cannot tell me that a 35 Wheelen - with 20 less grains of powder is going to hit with the same intensity as a 300 Winchester Magnum! It just isn't possible!

Then please explain how the original German 154 grn military loading gave velocities around 2900 fps yet the 30-6 with a lighter 150 grain bullet and a bigger case only gave 2700 fps?

The expansion ratio of case to bore size is better on the 8mm than on the 06.

Now if it was a 9.3x62 and it has a commercial FN action and has been re-barreled, there is a chance it may have started out as a Husqvarna as they used commercial FN actions for some models. Photos of the stock may help to see if it was or not. Of course it may just be a custom build but the chambering makes me now wonder if it was a indeed a Husqvarna.

Now as to ballistics, a field which always seems confusing and in which some cartridges seem to perform well outside of what the paper tables and maths say they should. The 6.5x55 Swedish is a prime example of this. Now a lot of cast hunting bullets use large flat metplats and not always for use in tube magazines, but because they transmit more initial shock having a larger impact area. As someone once pointed out if you propel a piece of straw fast enough it can pass right through a tree but it will not kill the tree. However put a big Dozer in low gear against the tree and it will take it down.

The arguments about speed and hyrdo elastic shock are not new and have been going on since at least 1905 and raged over cartridges like the .280 Ross which of course was about the first real high velocity commercial sporting cartridge. I am afraid that theory and practice don not always meet as one might expect them too.

The Gamemaster · « **Reply #35 on:** September 22, 2007, 04:03:35 AM »

I think you lost sight of what we were talking about - Brithunter.

The subject is 35 Wheelen vs. 300 Winchester Magnum!

The people that designed the 300 Winchester Magnum did their homework. It is a very good round.
It will shoot as flat as the .270 and reach out to a longer range than the .270 with more stopping power. You can shoot heavier bullets than you can a .270 and it was designed for a 180 gr bullet for it's best trajectory and downrange stopping power.

The 35 Wheelen is designed for a 250 gr bullet and is nothing more than a 30 / 06 type case with a larger bullet inside. The more powder you burn, the longer you burn it - the better it will perform.

Anytime I see people looking to change from IMR to say Reloader, I cringe because I know that they are not going to something better. All they are doing is going to something different.

Nobody ever told me to buy a gun, and getting on the Internet and starting a discussion about it isn't going to make it a better gun than what it already is.

I said it before and I will say it again. McDonald's is hiring, $7.50 an hour, with free food and free uniforms. Go get you a job and save your money and buy what ever you want to own.

Quit talking about all this swapping stuff and let it be.

Reliefers are the only people I know that will try to swap stuff to get a gun for hunting season, and the day after hunting season - you can buy this years guns for 75 cents on the dollar.

Brithunter · « **Reply #36 on:** September 22, 2007, 11:57:20 PM »

Hi All,

Welll ballistics were quoted so I added some to the discussion. Seems because I don't happen to agree with Gamemaster I am obviously wrong!

Quote

The people that designed the 300 Winchester Magnum did their homework. It is a very good round.
It will shoot as flat as the .270 and reach out to a longer range than the .270 with more stopping power. You can shoot heavier bullets than you can a .270 and it was designed for a 180 gr bullet for it's best trajectory and downrange stopping power.

Hmmm strange that as the designers of the .330 Win Mag originally gave it a proper neck length, it seems it was the marketing boys who had the shoulder pushed forward to get a few more FPS purley for marketing. With the result that of course the .300 Win mag has not got enough neck length especially with the heavier bullets that Gamemaster advocates. Winchester also kept the COL short so it can fit into a standard length action that of course means that bullets have to be seated deeply in the case thus reducing powder capacity. Also it seemed to me looking at reloading data the .300 Win Mag performs better with the 165 grn bullet than the 180 grn bullet and that is why I brought and started using 165 grain bullets. Later I tried them in the .308 with good effect.

Quote

The 35 Wheelen is designed for a 250 gr bullet and is nothing more than a 30 / 06 type case with a larger bullet inside. The more powder you burn, the longer you burn it - the better it will perform.

Not always as depending upon bore diameter there is only so much powder gas that can effectively be used which is where the term "Overbore" came from. The 35 Wheelan has a better bore expansion ration than the .30-06 although of course the SD of the .30 cal bullets can be better.. Just one other thing it seems that it was you than brought the comparision fo the .300 Win Mag and the .270 up? Oh one can always say that the 06 Springfield is nowt but a lengthend and necked up 7mm Mauser! Which of course it is...............

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #37 on:** September 23, 2007, 02:10:10 AM »

Quote from: Brithunter on September 22, 2007, 11:57:20 PM

Hi All,

Welll ballistics were quoted so I added some to the discussion. Seems because I don't happen to agree with Gamemaster I am obviously wrong!

Quote

The people that designed the 300 Winchester Magnum did their homework. It is a very good round.
It will shoot as flat as the .270 and reach out to a longer range than the .270 with more stopping power. You can shoot heavier bullets than you can a .270 and it was designed for a 180 gr bullet for it's best trajectory and downrange stopping power.

Hmmm strange that as the designers of the .330 Win Mag originally gave it a proper neck length, it seems it was the marketing boys who had the shoulder pushed forward to get a few more FPS purley for marketing. With the result that of course the .300 Win mag has not got enough neck length especially with the heavier bullets that Gamemaster advocates. Winchester also kept the COL short so it can fit into a standard length action that of course means that bullets have to be seated deeply in the case thus reducing powder capacity. Also it seemed to me looking at reloading data the .300 Win Mag performs better with the 165 grn bullet than the 180 grn bullet and that is why I brought and started using 165 grain bullets. Later I tried them in the .308 with good effect.

Hmmm, strange the .300 Win Mag with its not so “proper” neck length has won the Wimbledon (not the tennis match) a number of times – and again in the last couple years if I’m not mistaken. 3100fps with a 180g bullet is not hard. I shoot both 180’s and 165/168’s to good effect. The steel at 600 is not much of a challenge with either. Neck length just has not been a problem. Nor has seating the bullet deep into the case been a problem. If I run into a situation where I need heavier 220g bullets, max velocity isn’t going to be my prime concern so any loss of velocity caused by loss of powder space will be of no concern.

Cecil · « **Reply #38 on:** September 23, 2007, 04:43:11 AM »

Quote From Coyote Hunter, First, there is a better selection of factory ammo for the .300 Win Mag than there is for the .35 Whelen. Remington is the only member of the Big Three (Remington, Federal, Winchester) that even makes ammo for the Whelen Federal allso makes ammo cat number p35wt1 Fedral premium ammo.

The Gamemaster · « **Reply #39 on:** September 23, 2007, 05:19:54 AM »

The 30 govt. / 06 was specifically designed for the m1a1 Springfield rifle - after 3 years of testing.

If you owned the original one - the case length was longer.

Now did they shorten the case because it was too long for the action - and was too difficult to chamber? or was it because they found that it worked just as good short as long?

To finish the argument, the case became so perfect - by 1906 standards that they made a bigger version - that you know to be the .50 Browning Machine Gun (BMG).

It is an identical copy of the old '06!

The .300 Winchester Magnum is the round of choice for many target shooters in the military.
The other being the .338 Winchester Magnum.

You would think that the British would have adopted a different round for their sniper rifles. But since the .338 was just a copy of a British round to begin with, it wouldn't make sense for them to split hairs to develop something different.

I have years of experience with the .35 Remington, and I did Lot's of ballistic research and finally gave the rifle away when I was through with it. 12 boxes of reloaded ammo and the dies.

The problem existed in the fact that the most common reloading components are for the .308, .270, and .243

It isn't really practical from their standpoint to reload .223 ammo.

When I contacted Hornady and Sierra about marketing 150 and 180 gr - .35 caliber bullets, they only laughed at me and said that unless I could place a order for 500,000 of them, that they wouldn't even consider tooling up for something of that nature.

There was no profit in small batches of odd caliber components.

Remington sold .150 gr, 35 Remington ammo for $12 a box!

Why would you want to go out and spent $30 for a set of dies and $25,000 for bullets to try to make a obsolete gun better. There are millions of 30-06's used, on the rack at any gun shop in the country that can be bought for less than $500!

Dad also came back with a funny look on his face when he reloaded the .300 Winchester Magnum's.

His opinion was that case life was next to nothing and that it cost 50% more to reload the .300 Winchester Magnums than it did the 30-06's!

When I showed him the invoice for the 500 empties for the .270 Gibb's, he almost turned white!

In case you don't know, a .270 Gibbs is made by necking down a .35 Wheelen - not a 30-06.

The shoulder angle is changed, which increases the case capacity. Which is something that you cannot do with the 30-06 round.

So that is what I keep trying to tell this person , that although he might have empties for the '06, they aren't going to reload right for the .35 Wheelen.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Brithunter · « **Reply #40 on:** September 23, 2007, 07:28:42 AM »

Hi Gamemaster,

I see your knowledge of even US cartridges is very limited. The 30 Springfield cartridge was designed after the poor showing of the 30-40 Krag against the Spanish during the Spanish-American war. The Spanish troops of course were using the 7mm Mauser in the model 1893. In the aftermath the US military wanted a Mauser type rifle and a modern cartridge for it. This resulted in the adoption of the 1903 Springfield rifle and it's 30-03cartridge which still used a 220 grain round nose bullet.

In 1905 the Germans adopted a redical 154 grain Spitzer (pointed) bullet at a startling velocity of nearly 2900fps. This shocked the other major military powers rushed to develop a cartridge with more modern ballistics. In 1906 the US unveiled and then adopted the .30-06 Springfield cartridge with a 150 grain spitzer bulelt at a velocity of 2700fps. Britain adopted the MkV11 version of the .303 but this was not until 1910.

The M1A1 garand came along much later. America fought the Great War (WW1) with the US rifle of 1917 which of course was a development of the British P-14 it was not until the 1930's surely that the Garand was adopted, I need to check the date as I cannot remember of hand.

Oh and just because a target competition is one with a cartridge does nto mean it's the best design or even effcient!

Edit:-

Whoops sorry for the typo errors, it was a little late and a bit rushed

-

Cecil · « **Reply #41 on:** September 23, 2007, 12:13:57 PM »

Birthunter that is a 30-40 krag not 4-40

RaySendero · « **Reply #42 on:** September 23, 2007, 03:01:35 PM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on September 19, 2007, 04:38:43 AM

I'm still debating this issue. However, I feel like going ahead and buying the .35 Whelen because I can always pick up a .300 WM in any brand rifle later. It would give me a chance to try it out, get a feel for the caliber. I think Ruger and Remington still make the .35. Doesn't Browning make the BAR in the .35 now? Wish Hornady would make some light magnum ammo in the .35 also.

Since you already have a 30/06, Get the 35 Whelen and start reloading!

Swampman · « **Reply #43 on:** September 23, 2007, 03:06:51 PM »

I wouldn't sell a Remington 700 BDL for a custom Mauser.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #44 on:** September 23, 2007, 05:02:04 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter on September 23, 2007, 07:28:42 AM

Hi Gamemaster,

I see your knowledge of even US cartridges is very limited. The 30 Springfield cartridge was designed after the poor showing of the 4-40 Krag against the Spanish during the Spanish-American war. The Spanish troops of course were using the 7mm Mauser in the model 1893. In the aftermath the US military wanted a Mauser type rifle and a modern cartridge for it. This resulted in the adoption of the 1903 Springfield rifle and it's 30-30 cartridge which still used a 220 grain round nose bullet.
…

Oh and just because a target competition is one with a cartridge does nto mean it's the best design or even effcient!

1.   It was the 30-40 Krag, adopted in 1892, not the 4-40 Krag.
2.   The 1903 Springfield shot a .30-03, not a .30-30.
3.   Oh, and just because a major competition is won be a particular cartridge not once but at least several times, including recently, surely indicates it doesn’t suck as badly as some might suggest. It may not be the “best design” (as if such existed) nor the most efficient, (as if that really factors into most folks buying decision, reasonable efficiency normally being good enough). It’s enough to note that all the other designs, however good or efficient, lost.

Brithunter · « **Reply #45 on:** September 23, 2007, 10:52:55 PM »

Hi All,

You will notice that I corrected my typo errors....sorry for not taking the time to proof read it first

Of course the 30-30 Win is an entirely different cartridge and is also rimmed whilst the 30-03 was of course rimless being a copy of the Mauser design, so much so that royalties were paid for it as was the 1903 Springfield rifle.

Now target shooting where the rifle is supported by the shooter is more a test of the shooters ability than the cartridge used. The Wimbledon may have been won using the .300 Win Mag and I believe it is a 1,000 yard competition is it not. The Queens Prize at the annual Imperial Meeting at Bisley is shot using 7.62x51 and the final is shot at 1200 yards. you will also notice that 1,000 yard benchrest is rarely shot with .300 win mag and bench rest is more of a test of cartridge than shooter. In fact I have often wondered why in Benchrest especially with the heavy guns, don't they just mount them on solid conrete mounts and fire them?. After all they are a bit like artillery.

Also the Palma Match is shot using 7.62x51 and that also is a long range competition.

Whilst the .300 Win mag is capable of fine accuracy it still does not get away from the fact that it's actually a poor design. May I suggest you read what Ken Waters had to say about these cartridges that required deep seated bulelts which then intruded on the space really meant for powder. Unless of course you believe that Ken didn't know what he wrote about?

I try to make sure when handloading that no bullet is seated deeper in the case than the base of the neck.

Oh finally yes I ahve had, handloaded for and shot a rifle chambered for teh .300 win Mag. If things had worked out differently I may still have had it but as it was I needed to use it in trade to clinch a deal. The rifle was a Ruger No1B with a Leupold Vari X 111 2.5-8x36 scope. I still have the scope which is now on a P-H 1200 Super.

Quote

I wouldn't sell a Remington 700 BDL for a custom Mauser.

Oh dear one can only hope that the help your require is available and given! Even Greybeard didn't feel like this and we all know hoe HE feels about Remingtons.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #46 on:** September 24, 2007, 01:57:07 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter on September 23, 2007, 10:52:55 PM

… Whilst the .300 Win mag is capable of fine accuracy it still does not get away from the fact that it's actually a poor design. May I suggest you read what Ken Waters had to say about these cartridges that required deep seated bulelts which then intruded on the space really meant for powder. Unless of course you believe that Ken didn't know what he wrote about?

I try to make sure when handloading that no bullet is seated deeper in the case than the base of the neck. …

Actually, the .300 Win Mag met the design criteria quite well, which makes it a good design.

The .300 Win Mag was designed to be a hunting cartridge that would fit .30-06-length actions while providing a significant boost in performance over the .30-06. That the neck is shorter than some people would prefer is really a non-issue as far as I’m concerned as the .300 Win Mag has proven itself to be an exceptionally good and versatile cartridge. Bsed on sales, it certainly seems to fill the needs of many more hunters than does the .35 Whelen.

Brithunter · « **Reply #47 on:** September 24, 2007, 11:13:01 PM »

Quote

Bsed on sales, it certainly seems to fill the needs of many more hunters than does the .35 Whelen.

   Hmmmm ALL that prooves is that the marketing boys & girls did a grand job.

   For an example just think of all the BMW's you see on the roads and especially on TV shows. Are BMW's better than other cars?

   NO but they sure cost more. Again it's down to slick marketing. Heck I can remember when seeing a BMW on the road was a novelty! Now just about every major town or city has it's BWM dealer. Now the IN brand car here is the Audi ................................................................ Heavily hyped and vastly over priced yet the sheep buy them in droves. Got to keep up with the Joneses Don't you know ................................................... Sigh!

People have brought the hype lock stock and barrel.

   However sometime all the hype and super marketing will not work as happened to Winchester after they cheapened the Model 70 back in 1964 thus allowing Remington to take their market. Perhaps Remington should take note and realise than you cannot fool all the people all the time and get their act together before they too fold up and dissappear.

   The 300 Win Mag is an ideal example of what happens when the marketing folks get in total control. They sacrificed good design precepts for hype. The 300 win mag could have been a much better cartridge all round but marketing was everything. They did try with the WSM range but again they seem to have relied on hype to sell them rather than true performance and reliable feeding, however that may be down to poor quality rifles being made.

   Oh I will admit now that personally I can see no use for the WSM's for my usage so have not got involved in them and it's most unlikely that I ever will as the rifles I already have will do anything I ask of them. High velocity whilst the Holy grail of many is not mine as I prefer a balanced cartridge. The .270 winchester is fast enough for any use I have .............................. but still I find myself drawn to the father of high velocity cartridges. The .280 Ross. Whim yes but an enduring one that one day will be fullfilled however to do so requires finding a very good Ross M10, 1910 of a 1907 Scotch Stalker rifle.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #48 on:** September 25, 2007, 05:09:33 AM »

I believe Norma beat Winchester to the punch with it's .308 Norma as far as a .308 magnum with a standard neck so they had to do something else.
Also, why can't you make .35Whelan cases from 30-06? The originals were merely blown out 30-06 cases. Or is it another case of why make it easy? With a little more effort, we can make it difficult?

RaySendero · « **Reply #49 on:** September 25, 2007, 12:21:48 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on September 25, 2007, 05:09:33 AM

I believe Norma beat Winchester to the punch with it's .308 Norma as far as a .308 magnum with a standard neck so they had to do something else.
Also, why can't you make .35Whelan cases from 30-06? The originals were merely blown out 30-06 cases. Or is it another case of why make it easy? With a little more effort, we can make it difficult?

Why make'em when you can just buy some new ones!?

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/818

The Gamemaster · « **Reply #50 on:** September 25, 2007, 04:39:07 PM »

The reason why you cannot use a 30 - 06 case to make a 35 Wheelen case is because there is not enough material in the neck area to leave a sufficient amount of material to fill the void caused by trying to blow out the shoulder to make the angle different to accommodate the 35 wheelen specifications.

If you tried to use a special die, probably the best you could come up with is something in the middle and then you would have to fire form all the cases. Which means that you would not be able to shoot the cartridge until you fire formed the cases - which would mean that you would throw away a perfectly good bullet and powder and primer.

The components themselves would cost you more than the cost of brand new Remington cases bought from the factory.

I believe that the last time I bought cases at Grice Gun Shop at their shooters sale - they were $12 for 50! That's $24 per 100

If you buy the ammo new, it will cost you at least $16 - $18 a box.

If you fire form the cases, it will still cost you $18 per 100 for bullets and .02 each for the primers and $18 a can for the powder.

How many grains of powder is there in a pound of what you are going to use? divide that by at least 55 grains per a round. You do the math.

You are stepping over dollar bills to pick up pennies!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #51 on:** September 25, 2007, 05:53:34 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter on September 24, 2007, 11:13:01 PM

Hmmmm ALL that prooves is that the marketing boys & girls did a grand job.
…
People have brought the hype lock stock and barrel.

No, it proves no such thing, one way or another.

The marketing people may have done a great job when the .300 Win Mag was introduced in 1963, but I wasn’t paying attention back then. What I do know is that that since then there has been ample time for the cartridge to prove itself in the field , and it has done well. Many good products fail to succeed, but few bad products stand the test of time regardless of the marketing effort.

I also know that I waited 20+ years to get one and when I did (Christmas, 2004) marketing hype had nothing to do with my decision. What drove my purchase was a analysis of what it could do versus other cartridges that were available, with specific attention to my particular needs.

The .300 Win Mag remains one of the top sellers here in Colorado and the West for many reasons and I expect it will remain so for some time. I don’t see much marketing of the .300 Win Mag these days (none, really) so something else must be driving the sales. Do you suppose it might be that the .300 Win Mag actually meets the needs of the buyers?

Quote

…

The 300 Win Mag is an ideal example of what happens when the marketing folks get in total control. They sacrificed good design precepts for hype. The 300 win mag could have been a much better cartridge all round but marketing was everything. They did try with the WSM range but again they seem to have relied on hype to sell them rather than true performance and reliable feeding, however that may be down to poor quality rifles being made.

The .300 Win Mag may not be the cartridge you would have designed, but it has been proven to be a very effective and commercially successful cartridge that has withstood the test of time. With regards to the .300 Win Mag Winchester obviously did much right as determined by the buying public. I’d call that a win for Winchester and a win for the consumers. I won’t grump that marketing was too effective or that people were duped (which is essentially what you are doing).

While the world s still waiting to see the .300 Brithunter many hunters are using the .300 Win Mag.

Quote

… High velocity whilst the Holy grail of many is not mine as I prefer a balanced cartridge. The .270 winchester is fast enough for any use I have…

I guess if high velocity was the Holy Grail for most folks the .300 RUM would have fared better and we’d see higher sales of rifles chambered for the .300 and .30-378 Weatherby. The .300 Win Mag provides a good balance of excellent velocity with manageable recoil and excellent accuracy potential, and it does so in a .30-06-length action. That you don’t personally care for it or feel that it has design flaws doesn’t change those facts.

Personally I think the .375 Ruger necked down to .300 would be as close to perfect as I’ll see. While I wait for it I’ll hold on to my .300 Win Mag.

rickt300 · « **Reply #52 on:** September 26, 2007, 03:11:12 AM »

You can easily make 35 Whelen brass from 30-06 brass, the shoulder angle is the same. I have been shooting my Whelen for a while now and have no brass stamped 35 Whelen as all you have to do is run 30-06 brass through a 35 Whelen size die. As to the choice between the two rounds I think they are designed to do different things, the Whelen a good rifle for ranges a bit past 300 yards and the 300 good for those times you need to shoot over 400 yards. I lived in Wyoming for 19 years and was born in Idaho and the few times I had to shoot over 300 yards compared to the 97 percent of the time I didn't makes me think I could have gotten by without taking the shot. As to versatility you can load the Whelen down to 35 Remington levels or up to near 338 Winchester magnum power. Actually a 300 Win mag would complement each other as a two rifle battery for all situations.

Zachary · « **Reply #53 on:** September 26, 2007, 04:12:43 AM »

I have a very simple solution: don't trade your .300 for the .35...Instead, keep your .300 and just buy another gun in the .35. Seriously, just buy another gun. If you are having such a hard time making a decision whether or not to let go the .300, then that means that you really want to keep it.....so then keep it.

I have this bad feeling that, although you will be happy with the .35, you will always second guess yourself if letting go of the .300 was a good idea.

Remember, although there is nothing wrong with trading guns, making such a hard decision means that you really don't want to let go of the .300, otherwise you would have done it and wouldn't have asked us about it.

Zachary

beemanbeme · « **Reply #54 on:** September 26, 2007, 04:54:29 AM »

thank you, rickt300.

I did exactly the same thing turning .243 brass into 7-08 brass. Worked great.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #55 on:** September 26, 2007, 05:15:26 AM »

i would keep the 300 WM , in Alaska or out west you might need ammo ! loose yours , buy when you get there to save weight on plane or any other number of reasons !
bet ya can find 300 win mag !

saltydog · « **Reply #56 on:** September 26, 2007, 02:05:19 PM »

They are both dead calibers as far as modern rifles sales go - perhaps if you ask the same question for the third in a post time you will get the answer you want. The 300 WSM sales exceed the 300 WIN MAG and the 35 is not even on the radar. There are custom Mauser rifles available cheap everywhere so if it is not made by a well known maker like PO Ackley it ain't worth jack. You will also find you will be lucky to find a 300 WIN MAG buyer unless you are giving it away. They both work great on their intended game but why choose to buy a relic ?

Swampman · « **Reply #57 on:** September 26, 2007, 04:53:16 PM »

I can't see any need for anything bigger than the .30-06 in North America.

Brithunter · « **Reply #58 on:** September 26, 2007, 10:55:56 PM »

Ahhh I simply love it here

Quote

There are custom Mauser rifles available cheap everywhere so if it is not made by a well known maker like PO Ackley it ain't worth jack

This just has to be a classic. I expect that this is news to people like Fred Wells, all the wonderful customs he made, well he should have just brought a Rem 700 and saved all that time! I will also to be sure to tell Ron Wharton that he is wasting his time crafting classic Rigby style rifles as they aren't worth anything. Strange really as his order book is full.

Oh by the way there is a .308 Brithunter cartridge in the works. However it's not an ultra velocity cartridge but a reduced capacity cartridge for use in a single shot rifle I am building for shooting at our local 75 metre range. It's based on the .303 british case shortened necked to hold .308" bullets and Ackley 40 degree shooulder and minimum case taper. The rifle is being built on a Martini action and predicted velocites are in fact better than the parent .303 case. A friend has worked out prelimery loads using Quick Load I just have to get into the workshop and make the reamer, machine the barrel, fit it then make the dies so it will be a while in the making.

My idea is that I don't really need a full sized case to just shoot 75 metres with and as I have a Large frame Martini action and a take off 7.62mm target barrel ...................................... well I think you ge the idea.

Now as to the marketing side and the .300 win Mag. If marketing is good folks can be persuaded to buy just about anything. Not sure about teh US but sublimimal images were once tried here in marketing and could possibly still be even thoguh they are banned which could explain why some things which are popular yet when one carefully examines the product it becomes clear that it's clearly not all it's cracked up to be yet it still sells.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #59 on:** September 27, 2007, 01:05:36 AM »

so whats so wrong with the 300 WM ?