Would you sell .300 WM for a .35 Whelen?

[Brithunter]

Hmmm welll :-

1) It's got a belt and frankly the cases are not made uniform enough to make it useful which is why folks size to it seats on the shoulder like a normal rimless case.

2) The neck it too short to allow proper seating of the linger heavier bullet for which the cartridge was designed

    Belts were designed for break action rifles to enable reliable extraction and seeing how America is now the land of bolt action rifles and was when the .300 WinMag came out the belt was put on as a marketing gimmick "as Magnums have Belts"  Sigh!

[MSP Ret]

There has been a lot of rhetoric here as well as as some very well stated opinions. Mine is simple, I like the .35 Whelen....<><....

[Swampman]

Me too and if the choice were between two 700 Remingtons I'd choose the .35 Whelen.

[Coyote Hunter]

Hmmm welll :-

1) It's got a belt and frankly the cases are not made uniform enough to make it useful which is why folks size to it seats on the shoulder like a normal rimless case.

The folks at Norma and Nosler would be interested in knowing that their cases are not uniform enough to be useful.  Norma has a pretty good reputation for good brass and Nosler cases are individually weighed and packaged accordingly.  For that matter I’m sure Federal, Winchester, Remington and Hornady would be surprised to learn their brass isn’t useful either.  As would many of the hundreds of thousands of shooters using the .300 Win Mag and the millions of game animals taken with the round.

I agree the belt is unnecessary but that is true for all of the belted mags except the original H&H designs.  So include as “useless” all of the belted Weatherby rounds, the Remington 6.5mm, 7mm, 8mm, .350 and .416 mags, the .264, .300 , .338 and .458 Winchester Magnum, 6.5 and 7mm STW, .358 STA, .308 and .358 Norma,  .416 Taylor, .458 Lott, .470 Capstick and any other belted cartridge that doesn’t have an H&H-like length and taper.

While we’re at it, let’s be honest and admit rimmed cartridges aren’t useful either, as the rim really isn’t any more necessary than a belt except perhaps in break-open rifles.  So dump the .30-30, .307 Win, .356 Win, .375 Win, .38-55, .444 Marlin, .45-xx, .30-40 Krag, 7.62x54 Russian, and others - including, of course, the .303 British.

None of these cartridges are useful?  Right!

By the way, not everyone sizes the belted mags – including the .300 Win Mag – to headspace on the shoulder.  Most of the folks I talk to, in fact, full length size to ensure proper feeding and chambering during a hunt.  I’ve been loading the 7mm Rem Mag since 1982 and the .300 Win Mag for several years and have yet to neck size my first case.  Sub-MOA accuracy is easily achieved with both cartridges so I don’t buy your arguments.  Reality trumps theory.

2) The neck it too short to allow proper seating of the linger heavier bullet for which the cartridge was designed

As far as I’m concerned, the sweet spot for the .300 Wiin Mag is with the 180g bullets.  Unless I’m wrong, the .300 was designed to shoot them as well (along with lighter bullets).  While it is true that the .300 neck could be longer, the advantage of a longer neck is more theoretical than practical – any advantage would certainly be of more use to benchrest shooters than hunters, although the .300 Win Mag has done well in both arenas as is.  As to the heavier bullets, no one I know uses the 220g bullets but folks that use the 200g bullets seem to be quite happy with them.  Woodleigh even makes a 240g for the .300.  If a .300 Win Mag with a good bullet can’t do the job, a .35 Whelen isn’t going to give me warm fuzzies.

    Belts were designed for break action rifles to enable reliable extraction and seeing how America is now the land of bolt action rifles and was when the .300 WinMag came out the belt was put on as a marketing gimmick "as Magnums have Belts"  Sigh!

Again, I agree the belt is, as I’ve often called it, “a useless anachronism”.  It is, however, fairly unobtrusive – much less so than the rim on the .303 British which still maintains its popularity up north and, I assume, in other parts of the world.  Those that choose to do so can easily neck size their brass and a belt (or rim) in no way impedes this.

Nevertheless my guess is the day of belted mag cartridge design has come and gone and I don’t expect to see any new belted mags introduced by the factories any more than I expect to see new rimmed cartridges.  Instead I expect the new .375 Ruger case will be the parent case for much of the new cartridge design in the coming years – no belt, no rim, more case capacity with no loss of magazine capacity, and a .30-06 length. I have to say I’m looking forward to the Ruger’s offspring. 

[Brithunter]

Well it's called a belt as that is what it is and that's what H&H called it as the .300 properly is the .300 Belted Rimless Nitro Express. The term Magnum was applied by American folks and not by Holland & Holland.

Now I never said that Winchester brass was useless not any other make but I did point out that Winchester seems incapable of making it's brass to specifications, even it's own designs like the 30-30 where the rims are undersized. Luckily as I also said I can use this to my advantage is certain cases when re-forming to an obsolete case like the 6.5x53R which of course is the older rimmed version of the 6.5x54 MS case.

    Now of course the rimless case was designed with automatic weapons in mind as it makes feeding and ejection simpler. Me I happen to like rimmed cases but then again I have worked with them for a long time as my first real interest in shooting was the .303 and still have several of them now although I could never afford the double rifle I soooooooo wanted. And as for rimmed cases not being usefull? well that's statement of shear lunancy. I never said that the .300 win mag was useless I meerly pinted out that it was not designed to be as efficient as it could have been as the marketing boys got hold of it from the designers and pushed the shoulder forward. no one that I ahve ever heard of is sure what happens to the surface of the shank of a bullet exposed to high temp and pressure cases in the case when it intrudes into the powder space. If the neck was properly proportioned then this would not be an issue nor question.

    Now before you go on about the excessive body taper on old cases like the affore-mentioned .303 british and 30-30 Winchester, please remember that these cases were designed before such things were fully understood and in fact the .303 was first adopted with compressed Black powder back in 1888.

      As for neck sizing well yes I have done it and do it using collect dies and did so with the .300 Win Mag and if you check your loaded rounds then chambering in the field unless caused by debris getting into the chamber is never a problem. You might also like to know that I have never experienced a case failure on re-loaded ammunition in the .303 either despite loading for 6 different .303 rifles. I mainly use HXP brass in the .303 as I brought several cases of the ammo over the years so have a plentiful supply of them although i ahve also loaded Winchester brass from their White box 180 Grn ammo at times.

    Finally I was still under the impression that a 165 grain bulelt performed extremly well in the .300 win mag and why you seem to think that no one uses the 200 grn bullets in the .300 is surprising especially when I see lots of refernces to folks using the 220 grn bulelt in the old 30-06 which of course does not have the powder capacity of the .300 Magnum case. Now I should point out that the .458 Win Mag is also a pretty poor design failing to reach it's published velocity and even Winchester had to admit this and reduce it's claims which is why so many wildcats came about to improve upon the .458 and yes I do have one not because it's a .458 but because it's happens to be the chambering of the rifle I found, I in fact was after a .404 Jeffries but was too slow and should have put a deposit on it. It was a British Big Game rifle that I was after and brought this Parker-Hale 1100M. Hindsight says I should have waited and got a .375 H&H or a .404 but it's easy to be wise after the event. Now I am considering getting it re-chambered for the .450 Rigby cartridge as the .458 Win produces more felt recoil than other cases in it's class, or it certainly feels like it..

[Don Fischer]

I'm still debating this issue.  However, I feel like going ahead and buying the .35 Whelen because I can always pick up a .300 WM in any brand rifle later.  It would give me a chance to try it out, get a feel for the caliber.  I think Ruger and Remington still make the .35.  Doesn't Browning make the BAR in the .35 now?  Wish Hornady would make some light magnum ammo in the .35 also. 

And there is the inescapable fact!

[Coyote Hunter]

…
Now I never said that Winchester brass was useless not any other make but I did point out that Winchester seems incapable of making it's brass to specifications…

What you said and what I awas responding to was:
“1) It's got a belt and frankly the cases are not made uniform enough to make it useful which is why folks size to it seats on the shoulder like a normal rimless case.”

I didn’t see anything there about Winchester, just a broad brush statement about the .300 Win brass in general. 

For what it is worth, I shoot Winchester brass in my .300 Win and have had no problems.  It’s useful enough I can hit steel at 600 yards with no problems when the wind cooperates.  That’s useful enough for me…

…  And as for rimmed cases not being usefull? well that's statement of shear lunancy.

My statement about the rimmed cartridges was firmly toungue in cheek, as indicated by my following statement :
“None of these cartridges are useful?  Right!”

That said, a rim causes the same problems a belt does with regard to headspacing on the shoulder - a short cartridge will seat on the rim or belt.

I never said that the .300 win mag was useless I meerly pinted out that it was not designed to be as efficient as it could have been as the marketing boys got hold of it from the designers and pushed the shoulder forward. no one that I ahve ever heard of is sure what happens to the surface of the shank of a bullet exposed to high temp and pressure cases in the case when it intrudes into the powder space. If the neck was properly proportioned then this would not be an issue nor question.

In my opinion a cartridge does not need to be as efficient as possible in order to be useful – it merely needs to offer advantages over other cartridges available.  The .300 Win did that at the time of its introduction and in my opinion still does.  When using 180g bullets the issue you discuss is really isn’t much of an issue – and has never been one for me.   Heavier bullets may protrude further into the case but extreme accuracy probably isn’t required in most of their applications.  The answer to your implied question is, most likely, that the bullets are into the bore before much of anything happens to the shank.

 

Now before you go on about the excessive body taper on old cases like the affore-mentioned .303 british and 30-30 Winchester, please remember that these cases were designed before such things were fully understood and in fact the .303 was first adopted with compressed Black powder back in 1888.

Never said anything about the taper and in fact don’t give a rip one way or another about it.  The taper has its uses, especially in DG and semi-auto weapons.  It doesn’t do anything for efficiency, however, so the designs using it must be less than optimum by your standards?

      As for neck sizing well yes I have done it and do it using collect dies and did so with the .300 Win Mag and if you check your loaded rounds then chambering in the field unless caused by debris getting into the chamber is never a problem.  …

Of course the neck-sized cartridges that don’t chamber have to be torn apart, a problem full-length sizing avoids.     

    Finally I was still under the impression that a 165 grain bulelt performed extremly well in the .300 win mag and why you seem to think that no one uses the 200 grn bullets in the .300 is surprising especially when I see lots of refernces to folks using the 220 grn bulelt in the old 30-06 which of course does not have the powder capacity of the .300 Magnum case.
…

I never suggested folks don’t use 200g bullets in the .300 Win Mag.  Quite the opposite.   What I said was:
“As to the heavier bullets, no one I know uses the 220g bullets but folks that use the 200g bullets seem to be quite happy with them.”

[mdatlanta]

The reason why you cannot use a 30 - 06 case to make a 35 Wheelen case is because there is not enough material in the neck area to leave a sufficient amount of material to fill the void caused by trying to blow out the shoulder to make the  angle different to accommodate the 35 wheelen specifications.

Gamemaster,

With all due respect, what you wrote about "the reason why you cannot use a .30-06 case to make a .35 Whelen case..." is completely false.  You even mentioned in one of your earlier posts in this thread that the .35 Whelen is just a .30-06 with a bigger bullet in it, which is correct.  Please excuse me if I've mis-read your post, but creating a perfectly safe, properly dimensioned .35 Whelen case is no harder than running a .30-06 case into a .35 Whelen sizing die, thereby necking up the case to fit .358" bullets. The shoulder angle of the .35 Whelen and the .30-06 are exactly the same: 17 degrees, 30 seconds--no "blowing out shoulder to make the angle different" is necessary, especially if the neck wasn't pushed back during resizing.

I've made literally hundreds of .35 Whelen cases like that with no failures of any kind.  Many of those cases were reloaded 7 or 8 times.

DixieDude:

IMO, if the converted Mauser in .35 Whelen "speaks" to you you should definitely get it! Especially if you think the asking price is reasonable for the quality of the "conversion".  I've seen several "converted" Mauser's built by local gunsmiths which were beautiful to behold, and shot very well. The .35 Whelen is a great and very versatile cartridge.  It will shoot "gallery" loads using lead or jacketed pistol bullets meant for .38 Special/.357 Mag as well as a large assortment of cast rifle bullets from 180 to over 250 grains.  It is also a lot flatter shooting than armchair hunters give it credit for.  300 yards is no problem for a .35 Whelen.

The .300 Win Mag is also a great and versatile cartridge.  I think this cartridge comparison is about apples vs. oranges.

Mike

[Dixie Dude]

I got the Whelen, and I still have my .300 WM.  I actually like the Whelen better as far as looks, feel, and ease of bolt take-down.  .300WM is a Remington, 700 BDL.  The Whelen action is a commercial Mauser action made in Belgium (don't know when).  Barrel was custom made and has the gunsmiths name on it (R.L. Williamson).  He is deceased now from what the previous owner said.  Nice Monte-Carlo walnut stock.  I have questions in the reloading section about loads, and equipment. 

[S.B.]

I like the idea of a biigger bullet so YES I would take this deal.

[sabretip]

I had a new CDL in 35 Whelen and liked it very much,I also bought a 300 Winchester in a Remington 700 BDL. Both are very accurate, but I sold the 35 and kept the 300.
I have a better selection of reloading bullets for the 300 than the 35. The 190 grain BTSP clock in at 2940 fps out of the 300 and it has very good long range accuracy. The manuals that I have  show the 300 ahead of the 35 when using similar bullet weights,so the choice was easy for me to keep the 300.

[Dixie Dude]

Tried the Whelen out at the range.  Only a 100 yard range.  The Whelen did more damage to a 2' diameter log that I put my targets on than my 45-70.  The Federal 225 grain with Bearclaw bullets penetrated deep and exploded off large chunks of wood.  It was actually more accurate than the 300 WM.  I bought a custom Mauser 30-06 from the same gunsmith which shot cheap Remington Corelokts from Wal-mart in the same hole at 100 yards.  This guy knew how to make good rifles.  I am very impressed with the Whelen's push instead of a sharp kick.  From what I have read and in shooting the Whelen at the range, it is probably the most under-rated cartridge around.  Ammo is available from Remington and Federal, as well as Nosler.  I beleive because it wasn't designed by one of the big three ammo manufacturers and not marketed as such it never caught on like the "magnums".  I think it's "sweet spot" is the 225 grain.  It can be loaded with 250's and 300's as well as 200's, 180's and even .357 magnum bullets.  I think it matches up well against the .338 WM in energy and range.  The .300 WM has more range and accuracy on paper, but does use lighter bullets and smaller diameter.  I think larger animals under 300 yards need a bigger bullet for bone crushing, penetration, and knockdown power. 

[S.B.]

I just finished building a Whelen and have shot it a little and am very impressed with it. Doesn't the Win 300 have brutal recoil?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

It sounds like you hit the x-ring!  You got both.

Here are some things to consider.

The .300 WM is one of the reasons we have premium bullets that cost over $1 a piece.  For the most part at .30-06 velocities your garden variety Cor-Lokt bullet will do the job from muzzle to 3-4-even500 yards.

If I'm in grizzly territory, and I had a choice between two guns that have similar muzzle energies, but one develops that energy through hyper velocity and the other does it by pushing a bigger bullet - I'll choose the gun that shoots a heavier bullet.

The heavier bullet will generate a higher kinetic pulse.  Kinetic Pulse?  Yep, it's what is used to calculate Optimal game weights.  It balances momentum and kinetic energy and if you compare various guns' KP's you'll find that they follow conventional wisdom much better than Kinetic Energy, TKO, or any of the other formulas.  KP is simple to calculate:

(mass squared) X (velocity cubed) / 101,450,000,000

Double Tap has thrown its hat in the ring to vie for factory Whelen ammo.  They offer loads with a 225 grain bullet, a 250 grain bullet, and a 310 grain bullet!

The 310 grain bullet has a MV of 2300 fps (so they claim).  If that is true, then the KP of that 310 grain load is 11,500.  A .300 WM is doing well if it has better than 9,000 KP.  

If I was in Griz country, I would certainly feel better with one of those 310 grain Weldcores in the chamber.  I would know darn well that at 2300 fps that bullet ain't gonna come apart before it penetrates the boiler room of Ol' Ephraim.  

For Whelen Factory ammo there is: Remington (2), Nosler (2), Double Tap (3), and Federal (1).  Federal has an article posted to their website explaining that when they removed the .35 Whelen with the TBBC there was quite an outcry from African hunters.  Aparently that load was a favorite among safari goers.  So Federal brought it back, however now it's under their "Cape Shok" line instead of "Vital Shok".  Double Tap and Nosler both have loads that push a 225 grain Accubond to 2700 fps.  That's your 300 yard load right there.  

[rickt300]

I have a bunch of rifles, my medium range rifles include the 358 and the 35 Whelen. I have used both and have to say they should be way more popular. I have owned a couple 300 Winchester magnums. One had a 26 inch barrel on a Winchester push feed action and it truly was a long range performer but it was a bit long getting it in and out of the truck during drives for elk, it really did have some recoil as I was pushing 200 grain bullets at 2900 fps. Still it was a useful rifle and if I could only have one rifle it would be considered. But I can have many and I have a 35 Whelen and a 7MM Remington magnum. They compliment each other well. It's beginning to look like the price of gas and Wyomings non-resident elk tags has priced me out of the sport so I don't need the most foot pounds at the longest range anymore. Facts are though I only shot one elk past 300 yards (450) all the rest were under 250 yards and most of them were under 100 yards. The Whelen would have served me well for 95% of all my hunting.

[sabretip]

The reason why you cannot use a 30 - 06 case to make a 35 Wheelen case is because there is not enough material in the neck area to leave a sufficient amount of material to fill the void caused by trying to blow out the shoulder to make the  angle different to accommodate the 35 wheelen specifications.

If you tried to use a special die, probably the best you could come up with is something in the middle and then you would have to fire form all the cases.  Which means that you would not be able to shoot the cartridge until you fire formed the cases - which would mean that you would throw away a perfectly good bullet and powder and primer.

The components themselves would cost you more than the cost of brand new Remington cases bought from the factory.

I believe that the last time I bought cases at Grice Gun Shop at their shooters sale - they were $12 for 50!  That's $24 per 100

If you buy the ammo new, it will cost you at least $16 - $18 a box.

If you fire form the cases, it will still cost you $18 per 100 for bullets and .02 each for the primers and $18 a can for the powder.

How many grains of powder is there in a pound of what you are going to use?  divide that by at least 55 grains per a round.  You do the math.

You are stepping over dollar bills to pick up pennies!

Someone has been eating a bit of horse pooh to say you can't make 35 Whelen out of 06 brass. I did it for all the 35W  I loaded,one pass through the die and trim , load and shoot. I guess Townsend Whelen should be informed of his error............

[350hunter]

Yes I would. If you have an '06 why do you need a 300 and a Mauser CAN be made into a very nice rifle

[woods]

  What more can I say I like the whelen! The 250 gr bullet is a deep penatrating  bullet for this caliber. I hand load so  the ability to shoot 158 gr pistol bullets for practice is a added plus. Let me ask one thing what is the twist rate of the rifling? if it is more than 1 in 16  you might have problems stabilizing bullets heavier than 250 gr.
  The 300 win  is good also lots of variety bullets, lots of proven loads, plus factory loads abound in large variety weights and velocity, very common for factory loads to be found even in places far from civilization.
     Now start useing your checklist to eliminate what you do and don't like. weight , barrell length. bullet weight or type, hand load, what your hunting, climate forgun care (synthetic stainless)  range and a hundred other things.
    Your choice! Let us know what you decide we will still be giving you and anyone else who's ear we can bend lots of sage advise for what most everyone knows they are right because they have experienced it or read about it. We gun nuts are kind of like politicians you weed through them and try to find something you can use. good luck

woods

[JeffG]

In a heart beat.

+1 If you haven't shot one, you won't know why...

[nomosendero]

I reckon not

[Swampman]

Only if it was a Remington 700 Classic in .35 Whelan.

[Coyote Hunter]

Federal allso makes ammo cat number p35wt1 Fedral premium ammo.

You are correct - mea culpa.  The best part is that Federal loads a Trophy Bonded.

[Brithunter]

The reason why you cannot use a 30 - 06 case to make a 35 Wheelen case is because there is not enough material in the neck area to leave a sufficient amount of material to fill the void caused by trying to blow out the shoulder to make the  angle different to accommodate the 35 wheelen specifications.

If you tried to use a special die, probably the best you could come up with is something in the middle and then you would have to fire form all the cases.  Which means that you would not be able to shoot the cartridge until you fire formed the cases - which would mean that you would throw away a perfectly good bullet and powder and primer.

The components themselves would cost you more than the cost of brand new Remington cases bought from the factory.

I believe that the last time I bought cases at Grice Gun Shop at their shooters sale - they were $12 for 50!  That's $24 per 100

If you buy the ammo new, it will cost you at least $16 - $18 a box.

If you fire form the cases, it will still cost you $18 per 100 for bullets and .02 each for the primers and $18 a can for the powder.

How many grains of powder is there in a pound of what you are going to use?  divide that by at least 55 grains per a round.  You do the math.

You are stepping over dollar bills to pick up pennies!

Someone has been eating a bit of horse pooh to say you can't make 35 Whelen out of 06 brass. I did it for all the 35W  I loaded,one pass through the die and trim , load and shoot. I guess Townsend Whelen should be informed of his error............

Actually you mean James Howe as Wheelan didn't have anything to do with it. The cartridge was named for him but when it was devolped Wheelan was away on one of his beloved Winderness hunts and Wheelan himself wrote this fact in his book "The Hunting Rifle". Wheelan had previously developed with Howe's aid the .400 Wheelan but this cartridge prooved a problem with headspace in production so was dropped. Now without looking up the actual specs and seeing just how much shoulder there is to headspace on it's difficult to see why it should really be a problem as there are other cartridges with only small shoulders that made it into production and remained so for many years. The 9.3x57 has 0.021" of shoulder to headspace on, this measurement was just taken form a sized Norma case, and there was a slo a 9.5x57 or to give it the original name from 1908 .375 Rimless Nitro Express 2 1/4" which of course had a smaller shoulder to head space on and looking at this I wonder if it was not actually sloppy workmanship in chambering some rifles that was the problem it being a wildcat  The 358 Winchester cartridge also has a fairly small shoulder yet works fine so ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??

[Swampman]

The 1923 issue of 'The American Rifleman' Colonel Whelen referred to it as "the first cartridge that I designed" and in that same article stated that, "Mr. James V. Howe undertook this work of making dies, reamers, chambering tools, and of chambering the rifles, all in accordance with my design.

[yooper77]

Dixie Dude,

I would easily trade the 300 Winchester Magnum for the 35 Whelen.
-I am glad you got the 35 Whelen, I have some custom Mauser's myself that were my fathers.

The 35 Whelen brass can and is easily made from 30-06 Springfield brass.
-Run the 30-06 Springfield through a 35 Whelen die and start loading and shooting.

I am willing to bet you will find yourself grabbing the 35 Whelen and your 300 Win Mag will gather dust.
-I would sell it off.

yooper77

[S.B.]

Has anyone considered keeping both? A man's got to have his guns!

[Brithunter]

Well I have to book open in front of me as I type this and on page 271 the third sentance down starts thus and I quote:-

The .35 Wheelan cartridge In 1922 Mr James V. Howe and the writer developed the .400 Wheelan cartridge. This cartridge was constructed by taking the 30-06 cartridge before the case had been necked at all and necking it down to .40 caliber, and then utilizing existing 300 and 350 grain bullets. The idea was to produce a cartridge for those lovers of large bores and heavy bullets that could be handled successfully by the existing Springfield, Winchester and Remington bolt actions. As originally developed, with cases necked down very accurately in dies made by Mr Howe, the cartridge was very effective. But when we came to produce the cartirdge cases in quantity it was found that the slight shoulder on the case could not be formed with sufficient exactitude in quantity production, and positive and accurate headspacing could not be assured. From the standpoint of quantity production the .400 Wheelan was a failure, and it has now become obsolete.

     About the time we completed the development of this cartridge I went on a long hunting trip into the Northwest, and when I returned Mr Howe showed me another cartridge which he had developed by exactly the same means and for the same purpose. The 30-06 cartridge was necked to .35 caliber to use existing .35 caliber bullets of .200, .250 and .275 grain weight, the later being a special bullet made by the Western Tool & Copper Works and since discontinued. Mr Howe asked my permission to call this cartridge the " .35 Wheelan," but he alone deserves the credit for it's development. This cartridge did prove a success from the start, and in a quiet way it has proved successful ever since. At it's best it is loaded with one of the 250 grain soft point or open point bullets designed for the .35 Winchester cartridge. A moderate and sensible powder charge is 56 grains of Du Pont I.M.R. No 4064 powder, which in a 24 barrel gives a muzzle velocity of approximately 2500 f.s. The trajectory height over 200 yards is about 4 inches. In a good rifle 2 inch groups at 100 yards are obtained. Rifles for it with Springfield, Winchester, and Remington bolt actions are now being built by Griffin & Howe, Inc and the Niedner Rifle Corporation, and these firms can also furnish cartridge cases for hand loading. The cartridge has proved very excellent and very killing for moose, elk, and large bear, and it's users have been very enthusiastic about it's performance.

The book "the Hunting Rifle" is still available and my copy was a re-print from 1984 by Wolfe Publishing Co. Inc. the original print was 1940. I can only assume that Townsend Wheelan knew what he was writing about!

[WyoStillhunter]

Yes, I would trade.  The advantages of the magnum don't come into play until 400 yards out.  I hunt at 200 yards and under...just my style, my choice.  The barrel length, weight, ammo cost, recoil, and muzzle blast of the magnums is a liability for my style of hunting, not an advantage.

I have hunted with a Whelen for several years and find it very useful for my style of hunting.  So far it has accounted for antelope, whitetails, mule deer, antelope, elk, and one mountain lion.

WyoStillhunter -- "Hunt close, then get closer."

[bilmac]

Coyote hunter  Did you know you were compareing the 35 rem not 35 whelen?

Game Master   When you call someone stupid better look in the mirror first. The BS you put out about fireforming and case capacity and neck thickness is just drivel. Mentioning the 35 Whelen and the 35 Rem in the same context is drivel. You probably put out a lot more drivel in your haughty way, but my eyes glaze over and I stop reading when the BS gets too thick.

Dude   You done good. You could tell from your posts that the rifle was talking to you. That's what 90% of gun ownership is about anyhow. If I was you I would go all the way with your feelings and dump the 300 too. My philosophy has always been to sell guns that I don't use any more. That way over the years I have been able to own lots and lots of guns without feeling that I was depriving my kids.

Years ago, the U S Forest Service in Alaska did a study to find the best cartridges for use as bear protection for their employees in the field. Their test emphasized penetration as well as raw energy. The 300 Win did very poorly in their tests because the high velocity especially at the ranges they tested caused the bullets to shred. Even the 30-06 outperformed the 300. No doubt the 300 would do better today with the $1.00 per bullets now available, but why? I built a Whelen back when it was still a wildcat, and it always worked well for me. Getting hits at 300 -350 yds was not a problem, and I think shooting much beyond that is pretty iffy, no matter what cartridge you use.

[corbanzo]

I agree with both.... except... together   

Spend $150 and drill that barrel to a nice .35-300 win mag.