Author Topic: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?  (Read 5822 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2008, 02:21:57 PM »
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2008, 04:01:42 AM »
SharonAnn, basically I'd want a cook pot, one of the big bags of rice, bag of medicines and supplements, a couple of water jugs, a change of clothes, a long gun and a handgun (whichever are handiest), something for lighting, roll of paper towels, and a bunch of minor stuff that would take a while to go into. Most of it is already in my pockets or on my belt, or in the car. I'm already used to living without much, so most of what's loaded is going to be "nice to have". (And good butt wipe is /really/ nice to have.)

I think if I lived in the hurricane prone areas, I'd keep my kit sealed in plastic buckets (along with some cloth shopping bags to put stuff in while using the buckets for water). Maybe it'd be a good idea elsewhere as well.

The long gun would be more for a visual deterrent than use, unless there's a dog problem. Only the very worst of the human predators is going to take chances with someone stressed and holding a long arm, which is visible a lot further away than a hand gun is. I'd want a hand gun because a long arm is impossible to keep handy while doing chores, carrying water, etc.

Offline Swampman

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2008, 04:29:13 AM »
One thing to keep in mind is that most people can't hit anything with a handgun.  A simple non-visually offensive (hunting)longgun will feed you.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2008, 08:53:46 AM »

Fiirearms should be considered only by those proficient in their use. A neophyte with a pistol is much more dangerous to him/her-self than most any aggressor. I have used my pistols enough to be comfortable with any of them in a defensive scenario. The same applies to my long arms. I believe one must expend case lots of ammunition in  quality practice to be competent with firearms in the highly stressed atmosphere of using one to save ones life.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2008, 08:59:36 AM »
Swampman, what do you have against rimless centerfire cartridges?
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Swampman

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2008, 12:59:04 PM »
They are fine in weapons designed for them like bolt actions, and semi-autos.  The don't work well in some single shots & revolvers which I prefer in a bug out situation.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2008, 05:35:33 PM »
in a "worst case" I prefer a long range repeater, bolt or preferably semi.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2008, 03:25:38 AM »
Fiirearms should be considered only by those proficient in their use. A neophyte with a pistol is much more dangerous to him/her-self than most any aggressor.

If it that was true, then criminals would be shooting themselves left and right, instead of being an occasionally source of amusement.

Quote
I have used my pistols enough to be comfortable with any of them in a defensive scenario. The same applies to my long arms. I believe one must expend case lots of ammunition in  quality practice to be competent with firearms in the highly stressed atmosphere of using one to save ones life.

An overstatement. Switch over to the self defense forums and ask about how many times a child picks up a gun he has never touched before and shot someone attacking his mother. (Remember, you specified the actual confrontation, not handling the firearm with an aggressor absent.)

In addition, just shooting at the aggressor is generally enough to run him off. Heck, just pointing it at him and frowning is likely to get him out of there. If you really are ready to shoot. Don't bluff, mean it.

Funny thing about guns. You are in greatest danger if only one, in someone else's hands is present. You are in less danger if you have one in your possession. You don't really need to be able to hit anything, just be willing to try.

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2008, 04:03:26 AM »
But, firearm discussions usually end up with absolute positions, made worse by the fact that guns are seldom actually fired in survival situations, if they are visible. Heh, a gun that is visible is "in use" as a deterrent, and how would anyone know if anyone has been deterred by the sight of it? The absence of difficulties? Some people will say the absence of trouble means the firearm did not need to be present, right?

I think a good cook pot is far more valuable than even the best firearm (if it does not get stolen, but we get back to something that is seldom needed unless it's not there, a gun).

If I had time for a leisurely relocation, one load in the car, some firearms and ammo would be left behind in order to make room for the Sailrite sewing machine, plus sewing supplies. It's the zig zag with a large, heavy, iron flywheel. People with more experience might prefer the plastic flywheel the same size, or the small size closer to standard.

I'm almost skilled enough with it to keep my butt from hanging out, however,  there's a possible bonus. How many ladies are going to have their machines with them...?

Something has changed and I can no longer open their site with Mozilla, but here's the homepage URL:

http://sailrite.com/

The Sailrite Surefeed is, IMO, the best currently produced machine around for repairing work clothing, short of a heavy commercial machine. In fact, small canvas shops often use this machine for production.

It needs more handles, though. Small people will need help just getting it from the floor to a table; it's one heavy booger.

Offline Swampman

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2008, 07:33:57 AM »
Forget about aggressors.  Woory about the bunny at 15 yards that would be your supper if you had something other than a semi-automatic handgun.  Pistol are useless in most situations.  That's why the US Government issued the M-1 Carbine.  Most people can't hit anything with a pistol.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2008, 08:04:00 AM »
because a child has used a firearm to save a parent is not much of an endorsement.  in this thread we are looking at "worse case go to gear".  in such a situation the aggressor may be highly motivated and need aimed fire to be stopped. by your thinking we should just have a gun,not bother to know how to shoot and hope brandishing it works. I will stick to practice to maintain my proficiency. And yes Swampman for many pistols are useless. For those proficient in such use that 15 yd bunny is now stew. Most people cannot hit anything with a rifle. I would hope that those on this web page are not "most people". If you cannot shoot a pistol well, or just do not care for them, so be it. To condemn pistols because most people cannot use them well is a bit extreme. Most 'hunters' cannot shoot rifles well, but that does not stop them from going into the woods every fall to try for a whitetail or mule deer. I was on the board of directors of my local gun club for 18 years. I also worked as a range officer on 'sight in days'. The lack of marksmanship is staggering. If I was a charlatan I could have made a fortune buying 'rifles that don't shoot straight' for a pittance.  Loose scopes, dirty barrels, rifles that have never been boresighted, closing their eyes while yanking the trigger and even shooting .270winchester in a .30/06 have all been excuses for 'rifles that don't shoot straight'. It is a poor musician that blames his instrument for sour notes.

This is the same as the anti gunners blaming the gun for the crime. It is the shooter. I truly hope those on Graybeard Outdoors are not                "most people". I aspire to be better than the mass of 'sheeple' who look to the government for help. I come here to share what I know,to learn, and if all works right, be one of those who comes through  the "worst case" with nothing more than fatigue.

This thread is titled "What's YOUR worst case go to gear?" Mine includes a pistol. YMMV
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2008, 11:58:21 AM »
proficient is a number of things--IMO.
The first step is too be proficient In the use of---that is knowing how it works and how to work it, quickly, safely, under pressure. Knowing the weapon and all the parts.
Proficient in shooting is a catch all phrase. I am proficient and am fully capable of shooting safely and with a degree of accuracy.
If a person knows his weapon then he/she is indeed proficient and should have one in an emergency.
All help in this situation is welcome.
Blessings
 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Swampman

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2008, 12:11:47 PM »
"The lack of marksmanship is staggering."

That's why I feel a single shot shotgun (or any shotgun)cannot be beat for "worst case go to gear."  Anyone can point and pull.

If you want something to keep in the night stand or purse/pocket to intimidate a amateur burglar, a handgun is fine.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2008, 10:31:20 PM »
after years of 3gun  competition I can tell you I have seen many a miss made with a shotgun.  Shotguns require skill too.  They are not 'street sweepers'. They can best be characterized as a sloppy rifle. I keep a pistol for more than a bed side companion. The greatest attribute of the pistol is it is with one all the time. While not the first or best choice for many  situations it has the benefit of always being there. Firearms do more than intimidate amateurs. They intimidate professional criminals as well. Criminals prey on the weak. Even a 98 pounder is powerful when armed. Criminals are not looking for a fight. That is why the crime rate is so high in states with gun control laws that make it difficult for the law abiding citizen to own a gun.

Be careful how you store your shotgun ammo. It is inherently 'leaky'. The plastic hull is porous and the primers are not well sealed. Military shotgun ammo comes 5 rds to a foil pack for that reason. Centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition is inherently more waterproof and military ammunition is lacquer seal around the bullet and primer. For long term shotgun ammo storage I recommend a .50 cal ammo can with a dessicant bag in each can.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #74 on: August 12, 2008, 02:05:35 AM »
This little post is way off target---that said---I am reminded of WWII.
The hallmark of Marine training is rifle marksmanship--they are trained, more than any other branch, in the art and need for accurate shooting.
The training in War 2 was, as it is today, too pick a target and aim at the target.
This is advisable--too a point.
Some of this was paper pushers attempt to conserve ammunition.
When new recruits--by this I am speaking of newly trained Marines, unbloodied by combat--were sent in as replacements in front line units they were more than likely relying on training and waiting for a target too appear, that they might aim and shoot.
These new Marines were quickly retrained. They were advised that lead down range was needed as, more than likely, targets would not present themselves long enough too evaluate and aim quickly---what they were told is lead down range and the paper shufflers would have need too find a way too get more ammo to the front.
Don't pick at this little piece---I know that there is not a war going on---well, maybe--depends on how you see it.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2008, 05:21:58 AM »
Be careful how you store your shotgun ammo. It is inherently 'leaky'. The plastic hull is porous and the primers are not well sealed. Military shotgun ammo comes 5 rds to a foil pack for that reason.

Hmmm, I don't use a shotgun, but I do have some ammo and a shotgun. Thanks for the info, I'll be stashing the ammo in a can shortly.

No argument at all, we should be proficient with the firearms we have, and the more proficient the better, but the bottom end of proficiency is not down where someone is in more danger from the pistol than the aggressor, though. Lot's of people keep a handgun in the nightstand and use it to chase off prowlers without shooting themselves or their kid sneaking back into the house after hours. And most of them without firing the thing before that and with no training.

I'd be kind of surprised if any of this crowd could not use a rifle or shotgun. No surprise if some cannot hit anything with a hand gun.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2008, 07:33:41 AM »
Top of the line Winchester ammo is sealed well . I have picked up shells that had been in water and they fired ok . Some rolled around in the boat for weeks . But for ammo that i may stake my life - SA has a point !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Nasty Jack

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2008, 07:53:21 AM »
Stay put. Heat up something in the microwave. That way you're not stuck in traffic with the other loonies.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: WHAT'S YOUR WORST CASE GO TO GEAR?
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2008, 09:04:26 AM »
Nasty Jack,
Didn't pull out quick enough ?
That will make your life/ride stressful !
I hate microwave food !
Be ready leave early !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !