Author Topic: 231 and hp-38 the same? (Read 906 times)

targetshootr · « **on:** June 09, 2003, 01:20:30 PM »

i know 110 and 296 are identical, and i am almost out of hp-38 and thought maybe i could add 231 on top of it, if they are identical too.

thanks.

jhalcott · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2003, 09:06:37 AM »

NEVER mix powder PERIOD! You can't tell what will happen. Even if they are the same powder the LOT number won't be.You might wind up with a case full of a fast lot of the powder on your slow lot.
just my thoughts jh :wink:

targetshootr · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2003, 09:52:06 AM »

thanks for that input but i already added 231 on top of the hp-38 in the powder measure and commenced throwin'. i'm using a medium load for a measure of safety.

i checked several sites and the consensus seems to be they are made at the same factory then labelled differently by the suppliers, and my manuals give basically the same figures for each. if they burn at the same rate and the listed amounts are the same, i feel ok interchanging them. i'm going to the range this week so i'll find out soon enough.

redial · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2003, 04:42:24 PM »

It's long been speculated that they are indeed the same powder but as stated above, don't monkey with mixing powders! Lots of the same powder vary enough to be a concern, much less lots of suspiciously similar powders.

You probably won't disappear in a blinding flash by mixing them but in general, it's a bad idea.

Redial

KN · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2003, 06:38:06 PM »

That realy is a bad idea. You may get away with it for years but some day it could come back and bite you in the butt. Just my $.02 KN

targetshootr · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2003, 12:07:25 AM »

if the powders are the same, as i believe they are, is there a difference in adding 231 into a powder measure on top of hp-38, and opening a new bottle of hp-38 and adding it on top? wouldnt there be the same level of difference between each bottle of each brand of powder?

Hcliff · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2003, 05:32:19 AM »

I never mix powders. I like to have me eyes in working order. When I get to the last in a can of power I load as many as i can and thenb open the new. I won't mix brands of powdr ever even if it is suppossed to be the same. 296 is 296 and H110 is H110 beacuse of lot difference you can have different pressure spikes.

I had a 1/2 of a hopper full of what I was almost sure was H110 but threw it out because I didn't have my tape label that goes in the can lid and then to the hopper when being used. That is my safe guard if I leave powder in the hopper and since I wasn't 100 % sure down the toilet it went.

Always be safe

Hcliff

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2003, 05:56:11 AM »

That's a good attitude, Hcliff. That's basically what I do. I use Julia Child's great saying, originally regarding food spoilage but adapted to reloading: "If in doubt, throw it out."

Aside from the fact that mixing powders is akin to pointing a gun at someone (because they both violate basic safety principles), suppose that the two powders in question have a different density. Throwing a charge by volume would yield two different charge weights.

targetshootr · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2003, 07:50:25 AM »

if a powder has a different density, is it possible for the load tables to be identical.

Bullseye · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2003, 01:57:25 PM »

I have been reading this with interest, and must finally say IT IS CRAZY TO MIX POWDERS EVEN IF YOU THINK THEY ARE THE SAME.

Most lots of the same powder are very similiar. But I did have one powder a while back that threw a two grain difference between the two cans of the same powder until I adjusted the measure. This was the same powder. I would never mix two brands even if they were supposed to be the same.

Targetshootr, you asked for advice and have got some very good advice in my opinion. You seem to keep trying to convince us or yourself that mixing them was okay. Good luck with convincing us, if you have convinced yourself, then I just hope you shooting experience with these rounds is a safe one.

targetshootr · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2003, 03:17:26 PM »

i've checked other sites and most of the same things were said but i'm still puzzled about powder density and the levels of difference between bottles of the same powder.

a reliable person everyone is familar with said they are the exact same powder. if that is the case, should a person empty every powder measure when adding the same brand powder? it would seem to amount to the same thing.

i'll call hodgon soon as i am able.

come to think of it, i add same brand powder out of new bottles all the time and never had a problem but it sounds like i'm not on safe ground judging from the replies.

targetshootr · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2003, 04:55:27 AM »

heres an email from hodgdon, in reverse order:

Subj: RE: hp-38
Date: 6/12/03 10:32:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Hpchelp@hodgdon.com
To: Targetshootr@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Dear Steve,

Yes they are,but use HODGDON DATA for HP-38.

Good shooting,

George

-----Original Message-----
From: Targetshootr@aol.com [mailto:Targetshootr@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:31 PM
To: Help Account
Subject: hp-38

are hp-38 and winchester 231 the exact same powders? i recently learned that 110 and 296 are the same and i just read the same thing about hp-38 and 231.

thanks
steve w

targetshootr · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2003, 12:46:57 PM »

following up, another email from hodgdon said,

''There can be changes in density of plus or minus 1.5% For this reason, you would be better off to run all of the first lot through and then recheck your weight with the new lot.''

so, as always, i've been riskng life and limb although i'm not sure what affect a difference of 1.5% will make if mixed together.

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2003, 10:08:57 AM »

targetshootr,
A serious target shooter or even a serious reloader will not even mix lot numbers of the SAME powder. A change in lot numbers means a change in sight settings. A number of powders on the market have been made by more than one manufacturer and are marketed to be the same. They even look different. There is a safe way to fire mixed powders......use a real long string........

As for flushing the powder....why not pour in on your lawn or compost pile. It's good for both.

Duffy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2003, 03:04:48 PM »

For what it's worth I have 2 lots of 296, one is fairly new and the other is about 4years old. By Volume the new lot weighs about three tenths of a grain less than the old. If you load them by weight they shoot the same but by volume it's a different story. Also the 296 that I have is about .3 tenths faster than the H110 I use. Then theres the bottle of Blue Dot that I have to decrease the loads 1-3 grains to keep the cases and shot shells from sticking.....think that ones going back to the factory.