357 mag or max

[PHATINJUN]

Any of you guys shot or shoot .35 cal bullets .358 out of your rifles if so what did you thiunk. Reason I ask is I got a box of speer#2435 180gr 35 cal .358 flat nose that I might try .Kurt

[bluebayou]

not yet, but I was thinking the 180gr Hornady SSP #3505 in the Max.

[cwlongshot]

I have shot most of them in my Maxi looking for what shot best.

 Settled on the Hornady SSP but after having it come appart and not penetrate whitetails. I switched to the Speer 180fp. I load them both behind the same charge of 1680 powder.

 I tried the 180 Partition, but something about it dosen't strike my fancy.

 Another one that shot well was Hornadys 158FP XTP.

CW

[quickdtoo]

Here's a great article on .358" bullet performance in a 35 Remington which is a slight step up from the .357 Maximum.

Tim

The 180 grain Hornady Single Shot Pistol Bullet

Apparently this bullet is a good seller at Hornady, as they produce around a half million per year. There are a lot of lower velocity 35’s and pistol length barrels that require an easy opening bullet for reduced velocities. The SSP 180 meets that need. My questions were few; how would it hold up at close range and what were the expansion characteristics at longer ranges? To answer this question, I fired it at 2380 fps into the books, range twenty feet, and also at 2300 fps out of my Bullberry barreled Contender pistol in .35 Remington at the 100 and 200 yard books.

At close range, velocity 2380 feet, (call me Elmer Keith) the bullets expanded to wide diameter and penetrated around 8 inches, less than any other bullet save the 125 pistol bullets discussed later. Bullets held together, no doubt due to the Interlock feature, but the lead remaining in the jackets looked almost melted. They also blew the crap out of the phone books. Two shots, one in the top half and the other in the bottom, were all the first few books could take. These look adequate for most lung shots on deer but I’d hesitate to use them against tough resistance at close range at these velocities. At 100 and 200 yards it was apparent that the scoring in the nose of the bullet was not shallow, but deep, as the nose of the bullet peeled back into clearly defined segments. The bullet expanded to wide diameter at 200 yards and showed around 11 inches of penetration. This appears to be a deer bullet, and if any doubt about the expansion qualities of the .35 Remington at long range are present this bullet should answer all questions. There are more suitable cartridges than the .35 Remington for the longer ranges, but if this bullet is placed properly in the chest it looks to be able to cause sufficient damage way out there. A 2300+ fps launch velocity should be sufficient to at least 200 yards as regards trajectory, and these bullets can be used in tubular magazines if the soft nose is clipped and filed off flush with the jacket. The resulting meplat is considerably larger than the 150 Remington PSP factory load and similar to the 180 Speer. Little loss of ballistic performance should occur, as the bullet still has most of its tapering ogive. It is also possible to load the levergun as a two shot with pointed bullets, one in the chamber, the other in the tube.




http://www.suitorsgarage.com/gunstuff/35remington/factoryloadpart1.html

[cwlongshot]

^{These look adequate for most lung shots on deer but I’d hesitate to use them against tough resistance at close range at these velocities.}

My findings prove to me that, this bullet will come apart on bones at 75+ - yards. Even this author eludes to this. Most all bullets will provide you with nice looking mushrooms when fired into a constant density medium.

 Don't get me wrong, the Hornady SSP's shot GREAT. I really liked them, they seemed to be THE bullet I was looking for. But at top velocities attainable from a rifle barrel in this caliber they will come apart on bones. I shoot bones at ranges under 150+ - yards. I hunt the East coast where the vast majority of my shots are inside 75 yards. Let alone my 150 yard limitation. Some hunters will accept this bullet fragmentation, possibility. I will not, I need thru and thru penetration. One with enough of the bullet intact to exit the animal. leaving at least a double caliber exit hole. my thoughts are we owe it to the game we harvest to dispatch quickly and humanely.

There are two schools of thought about how a bullet should perform.

1) Likes A HIGH velocity light projectile, creating a dramatic, albeit shallow wound channel that "dumps" all energy into the target.

2) Likes A heavy for caliber, large diameter bullet that provides thru and thru penetration and a large/deep wound channel.

 There are valid arguments for both when speaking about a hunting bullet. I choose the second.

 CW

[quickdtoo]

Since Kurt included the 357mag in his bullet quest, the subject being 357 mag or max, I submit the 180gr SSP would be a fine bullet choice for it, leave the harder bullets for the Max, and in my case, the 35 Remington Handi. I chose the 200gr Mt Baldy hardcast in agreement with CW's #2 thinking, and I'd love to get a chance to put one thru a nice blacktail to see what kind of performance I get. But even the 180gr SSP would be fine for lung shots on deer particularly in the 357mag, I've never been a shoulder shooter on anything up thru elk, a double lung is the perfect shot choice for me, but that opportunity doesn't always happen, so the better constructed bullet would be the better choice if you don't care to be so selective.

Tim

[cwlongshot]

I missed that part!!

 You understand I get a bit biased when the Maxi comes up in conversation.

 Your choice of that 180FP in a mag will likely shoot well, but performance in the MAG might be lacking as its constructed for the higher velocities of the 35 rem.

Tim's absolutely correct, the 180 gr Hornady SSP should be very good @ MAG velocities from a rifle barrel. When looking for a bullet for deer sized game inside 100 yards. It will even be OK in the maxi if you don't load to top velocities and keep your shots thru the lungs. Just as the author wrote in the article Tim posted.

CW

[PHATINJUN]

Thanks guys for the info . Kind of what my thoughts are with this new bbl I have coming are to first cast the chamber and see what I got... then look at DW360 and maybe trimming down some max brass to fit perfect with my chamber. I have talked some with Stimpy about this and with the advice will keep close watch on pressures with the H110 I know I know why not just ream to max but the way I see it that may remove some of my fun over the next yr of playing with these other loads if I go straight for the max. Also hoping it will slow(ya sure) down my buying spree on these handi's as I need to replace my 23yr old craftsman mower and want a zero turn plus this wedding (daughters) is killing me best thing is the leaves are gonna turn soon and I will be able to get out and do some killin of my own. I am preety much of the lung shots as the "pick a spot" has been ingrained into my head from all the bowhunting I used to do. Quick you got some kind of file or some thing to keep all this info in or do you wear ear plugs all the time to keep it from ooozzzzing out.thanks again Kurt

[quickdtoo]

Heh heh, no ear plugs needed yet, just a lot of bookmarks, I did just build a new PC with a dual core CPU, DDR2 memory and bigger hard drive, tho!!

I agree with ya on the 357mg vs 357max, but for a little bit different reason, the 35 Rem Handi curtails the need for the Max pretty much, but I've never had a Mag yet, so thought I'd explore that venue with some Starline 360DW brass too.

Tim