Author Topic: Hornet for Coyotes? (Read 1585 times)

Bob A · « **on:** September 20, 2007, 09:29:02 AM »

I am really getting to like my Handi Hornet more and more. I've settled on the 40 gr Vmax with 13.5 gn of Lil'gun and every time I shoot it, I am amazed at the consistent accuracy.
I bought the Hornet for ground squirrels but now I wonder if it would be appropriate as the go to gun for coyotes. Typical shots are 100 to 150 yards, never any farther than 175 cause then they are over the hill and out of sight. I don't hunt them, just shoot them when they slip over to my side of the hill.
Do you think the 40 Vmax will give me clean kills? Should I move up to 50 Gns? I've been using my 30-30 with 110 gn Sierra Varminter HPs over 33.6 gn of Reloader 7. It really smacks them down. But like I said, I really like the hornet and it would be nice to use the same rifle for both kinds of critter. Then I could leave the 30-30 sighted in for a heavier load in case the piggies make another raid.
What do you think?

Bob A

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2007, 10:50:46 AM »

Isn't the 13.5 grains of Lil'Gun a pretty heavy charge? If you are not having any pressure problems...I would think that you should be able to nail them with that load. Bullet placement would have to be in the chest cavity, as any thing else.

dw06 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2007, 11:30:03 AM »

I love the Hornet,and agree with LaOtto that you put it in the chest at out to say 100-150 yards should do fine.I shoot the 40gr bt and 45gr hornady using lil'gun and ww296,and they do well on groundhogs to 200 with no trouble.Someone with experience using the hornet on coyotes will let us know I bet.

Bob A · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2007, 11:34:14 AM »

LaOtto222, thanks for the response.

I guess I should have quoted my source for my load. The Hodgdon data book says max load for Lil'gun and a 40 gn bullet is 13.0.
However, the Hornady data says max for the 40 Vmax is 13.7 (or 13.8? its not here in the office with me).
The Speer book says the max Lil'gun with their 33 gn tnt is 14.0. Fact is that I can't reliably get more than 13.5 in a case.
I guess Lil'gun with these light bullets is such a low pressure powder that the real max is the case capacity.
I am loading with a longer than specified COL. After settling on the powder and bullet, I did a test on COL and found that I got the best accuracy with the bullet a bit closer to the lands. I am about .060 off the lands. Any closer and it really opens up the group fast. Move it back and it slowly opens the group.
I am using a Lee collet die and it has been suggested that I use Rem brass because it has a bit more capacity. However, I have a stash of Win brass that will probably last me for years.

Bob A

aulrich · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2007, 11:41:42 AM »

150 is probably asking too much from that 40 gr pill though guys have been reporting out to success out to 125.

A 50 gr pill maybe something to look at. or at least that is the route I am going, Prior to this year I would have said no to 50 grain head in a hornet, just too slow to be useful, but this year Hodgdon had published Lil Gun data with 50's that is not all that much slower than a k-hornet (Ironically I had my k-hornet conversion a little over a month before I found that out.) On paper my k-hornet @ ~2800 fps with a good BC bullet has almost 200 yards of effective range. Hodgdon has the regular hornet rated @ ~2700 so that really is not that much different. But there is a big if, and that is bullet performance, at this point I have shot ground squirrels and it does seem to disassemble them pretty well out to 150 I did not have many 150 + hits to say. I also messed around with making my own ballistics gel and I shot the bullet into it at 75 yards, the block was made out of a 2l milk carton it did blow though but after about 1" of penetration there was as rapid expansion with a small amount of fragmentation.

I am using the sierra blitz bullet but I have heard of guys using the 50gr hornady spsx and since Nosler bt's are supposed to open up down to 1600fps they should work too.

dw06 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2007, 11:50:00 AM »

Good info aulrich thanks for sharing!!I haven't tried the 50gr hornady sxsp in hornet but use it in the 223.May have to give it a try.

McLernon · « **Reply #6 on:** September 20, 2007, 11:58:56 AM »

The coyotes in Southern Ontario can go to 45 pounds so I have ruled out even my 221 Fireball. This summer shots at over 200 yards on ground hogs resulted in pass-thru's and the ground hogs escaped down their holes before they died. At 221 velocities I just wouldn't trust it on coyotes and it has significantly more energy than the Hornet. I plan on using my 204 Handi or 223 BRNO for coyotes this winter.

Mc

dw06 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2007, 12:28:18 PM »

Thanks MC.The coyotes are getting a good start where I live,and I hope to get out this fall or winter after them.I also have a 223 and 22-250,so with shots of say 225-250 the 223 would do fine?Thanks for any advice.

ozarkhillbilly49 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 20, 2007, 12:47:07 PM »

many years ago i used a khornet low wall win. on yotes. 40 or 45 gr. Sierras and imr 4227. worked good out to 175 to 200 yrds. you had to hit 'em in the lungs but it was always a good clean kill. yote's around here in n.w. ar. have gotten more plentiful and seems to me maybe bigger? we got a lot of new folks in here. lots of housing developments with rich garbage cans!!take care and have fun shooting!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2007, 12:57:02 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on September 20, 2007, 11:58:56 AM

The coyotes in Southern Ontario can go to 45 pounds so I have ruled out even my 221 Fireball. This summer shots at over 200 yards on ground hogs resulted in pass-thru's and the ground hogs escaped down their holes before they died. At 221 velocities I just wouldn't trust it on coyotes and it has significantly more energy than the Hornet. I plan on using my 204 Handi or 223 BRNO for coyotes this winter.

Mc

Mc, if you're getting pass thrus, you need a softer bullet, I'm no expert on predators, but I read at PredatorMasters a lot, they prefer a bullet to expend all the energy on the critter, but doesn't splash when it hits, just a entry hole in the hide, no exit. Any bullet that passes thru wastes what little energy the tiny pills pack. Kinda like the difference tween a full metal jacket and a ballistic tip, for an example.

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2007, 02:35:31 PM »

I have shot Coyotes with many calibers. Most have been shot while deer hunting, but a couple while chuck hunting and even one when Turkey hunting. Around here, the season on yotes is closed during turkey season. But when one made a beeline for me after a few clucks and purs, he got a face full of 3 1/2" #5's at about 5 yards. I am just VERY LUCKY he came in from my front where I at least had a chance to see him coming!! A couple of friends have had identical "attacks".

Any how, back to the comment... The hornet will kill them if you can hit them, they just may run off. I think of varmints differently than I do game animals. I don't really shoot that many and done eat any of them so I don't means I don't have to bury them.

Since the introduction of the 17HMR its been my #1 coyote caliber. But remember the ranges I shoot them at here are much closer than other places. 100yrds is a long poke!! The 17 has dropped every one nearly in its tracks. Head shots are the norm, with many going all the way thru. Some of the really close ones don't exit. Let me tell you, seeing a coyote spin around at 1000mph and stop almost as fast after a head shot is a sight to behold. Not to mention the noises they sometimes make.

If you looking for violent expansion and hammer of Thor type kills. You want a speedy bullet. I say stay light and keep the shots as close as possible.

CW

rbergum95 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2007, 03:23:13 PM »

the hornet in my experience is fine to 200 with your load. as long as you are confident in your ability to make the shot i say use it. i have 2 hornets i use for yotes in pa, both use similar loads to yours and i have no problems out to 200 with either of them, sometimes a bit further.

Roudy · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2007, 03:57:00 PM »

Bob,

This is VERY non-scientific, but years ago I was reloading the 22 hornet and took it to the range one day with some other rifles. I had made some 22 LR silhouette targets from 1/4" mild steel and was having fun with them. At one point I picked up the 22 Hornet and though I'd just plink at the ram set out at 100 yards. I shot and the ram did not topple over, thought I'd missed the target so shot again....still didn't topple over. I noticed through the scope that there were a couple gray marks on the ram. Walked down to the target and found that the 22 Hornet bullet had blasted right through the 1/4" mild steel as slick as a 22 through and aluminum can.

Based on this non-scientific experience I would say that at least 150 yards would be well within the reach for coyotes.

Roudy

McLernon · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2007, 04:34:04 PM »

Actually I was using Nosler BT 40 gr at 230-250 yards when I got the pass-thru's ie poor terminal ballistic performance. I was surprised, but it happened a few times before I stopped making shots beyond 200 yards. It was fine to 200 though. With my 22-250 at that range even using Hornady 52 gr Match bullets I got the performance that Tim describes. One bloodless entrance hole and no exit. The 22-250 got instant kills to 400 yards with 50 gr.Nosler BT's even when not hit well. They entered the body and just exploded.

Mc

capnduane · « **Reply #14 on:** September 20, 2007, 05:18:04 PM »

Most of the coyotes I have killed here in Calif have been when deer or pig hunting. I have shot a few with my Handi rifles in 22 hornet, 25/06 and 45/70. Two that I shot with the hornet were with the 40gr Speer and 12 grns of H4227, lung shots, both were bang flops. The only one I have shot with the 45/70 was a lung shot, and the yote spun around and bit at the bullet hole and hit the deck.

just bill · « **Reply #15 on:** September 20, 2007, 05:59:42 PM »

As long as the Hornet has been around I would bet 2 bucks it's whacked as many Coyotes as any other varmint caliber and likely then some.

The 40 grain V Max from a Hornet has not been nearly as explosive for me as some might think.

It passes through over 90% of the woodchucks I have shot with it. Considering many want a bit more penetration for coyotes, it may be worth a look.

You may also want to take a good look at the .200 BC Hornady 45 grain pointed soft point Hornet bullet. Ballistics tables show with a case of Lil Gun it really carries the energy load down range well.

I use 12.8 grains and have whacked some Woodchucks with it. It punches through...............but with authority! Seemed ideal for predators to me.

Just a thought .......

45 grain Hornady Hornet Load

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/Bill1227/IMG_1606.jpg

Hornady Link

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=86dd4508603594d642171d552f5a3d07&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=dba9ab187f537ae2e638762a8dfe1810

Spanky · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:40:54 AM »

I have shot a few coyotes with my Hornet. I use factory Remington ammo. 45 gr. hollow point. I try to take lung shots only and keep the range sensible for the round. The longest shot so far has been just over 100 yds. and the coyote dropped in its tracks.

Spanky

PartsMan · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2007, 04:06:19 AM »

The hornet should be plenty.
A hole in the lung will kill them every time.
I have seen them drop from a 22 mag,
but I have also seen them run off into the sunset after a 270 hit to far back.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2007, 04:32:33 AM »

I use my Sportster in .22 Mag the majority of the time when I hunt coyotes, and it works well with proper shot placement and within it's effective range, about 100 yards give or take according to your proficiency and the shot angle. I have no doubt one of my Hornets with the proper load would be more than sufficient for the job....<><....

aulrich · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2007, 05:18:19 AM »

Those 40 gr pills confuse me, especially the v-max and this is because how soft the 50 grain version seems to be. a buddy used them one winter for coyotes I watch as he put one in to a coyote at 250 or so broadside and what seemed to be perfectly placed the dog lied feet up for 5-10 min while we called some more then we noticed it got up and was running (on three legs) for the bush. I could see a blood stain 1/3rd up the body just over the front leg, 1/2 mile later we lost the trail. Maybe the jackets are proportionately tougher to survive the velocities they go through.

50 gr v-max maybe another head to try as well.

eskimo36 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2007, 06:06:14 AM »

I shoot them with a 20 and 25 grain pill from a 17 so bullet size is not an issue. Coyotes have fragile lungs and bones it seems. If you hit a rib going in, fragments of bone and bullets take them down. Miss the ribs and the lungs deflate quickly without to far a run. Shots to far back will amaze you at how far a coyote can go.
I say all that to say this....

bullet placement trumps velocity and bullet size. Hit 'em right and pick 'em up.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2007, 08:24:13 AM »

here here!! Well said....<><....

rex6666 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2007, 08:38:33 AM »

years ago (about 40) i shot several yotes out my bedroom window at 30-40yds with a 22 lr ,
lung or head shot, i think that if i had, had a hornet then i would have gone in the yote
killing bus.

Bob A · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2007, 01:46:47 PM »

Thanks for all the great input guys.
I think I will try out the 45 gn Hornet bullets. Meanwhile, next time Wylie ventures over to my side of the hill, I'm going to
see if I can put a 40 gn Vmax in his lungs.

Bob A

just bill · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:16:25 PM »

Keep us posted Bob

Glad you like your Handi Hornet also. I had mine out this evening for some late season woodchucks.

I think the 40 V's may be fine. The 45 gr Hornady shot with slightly less accuracy than the 40 V's in mine but certainly plenty coyote moa. The Win. 46 gr HP shoots tight too................yet another option

Great little caliber for break actions

just bill · « **Reply #25 on:** September 24, 2007, 03:02:31 AM »

I thought I should copy this reply of mine and post it here also.

Pressure signs and ejection problems / 22 Hornet.

Exact same brass,primer,powder & amount but different bullets.
1) was 40 v max / 12.8 gr Lil Gun / Winchester brass & CCI SRP.
2) Hornady 45 grain Hornet bullet & same

I had ejection problems with the 45 and none with the 40. This is the second time now so it's becoming apparent.

Hodgon list up to 50 gr with 13 gr. Lil Gun and also shows charts with the Hornady 45 Hornet not exceeding pressure. Hornady says "no can do" with that load, "not what we found in our testing". I was concerned and actually spoke to techs from both company's about this. Both were sure of their findings From my real world experience it appears Hornady was right. Pressure related signs were beginning ( lower case expansion)

I now would be very cautious about putting a 50 grain bullet over 13.0 Lil Gun in a Hornet like Hodgon has recently added to their web. In fact for me, I won't be putting 45's over it in my Handi Hornet anymore.

alsaqr · « **Reply #26 on:** September 24, 2007, 03:36:56 AM »

i use 45 grain Remington or Winchester bullets in my .22 Hornet and K-Hornet loads. They work well for me out to about 175 yards.