300 Savage in a Contender Yes/No...

[PJ]

I have a 14" 30 Herrett I was thinking of rechambering if its not too much power for the frame to handle.Why the 300 Savage....dies are cheap I have lots of brass and I think it would be a fun caliber.What do you guys think?

[Ken55]

(6/10/03) PJ:  I once was in a simular situation, having a Super 14 30 Herret barrel.  Except I had lots of 30-30 brass & deceided to go with the 30-30 Ackley Improved.  After getting my hands on a 309 JDJ cartridge if I had it to do all over again my Super 14 would be a 309 JDJ right now.  The 30-30 Ackley is ok, and is cheap to shoot, but it isn't a 309 JDJ.  Just food for thought......Ken  

[HHI #4694]

I like the idea of a factory round in a Contender. Wilcatting is a pain in the butt. Just keep the hot rodding down with the 300 Savage. I load for about seven different wilcats and it takes away my shooting time. I doubt any deer would ever know if it was hit with a 309 JDJ or a 300 Savage.

I was reading about the 30/30 Ackley over at handgunhunt. It certainly appears to be the full equal of the 309 JDJ from the velocities guys are getting.

JD. Jones says the 309 JDJ will do 2,400 fps with a 165 grain pill. I have never seen one that could actually do this. :? It is a cool looking round for sure.

[HHI #4694]

I do have a SSK stainless 14" 250 Savage barrel. It will do everything the 257 JDJ will do, with a whole lot less headaches. The 300 Savage used to a popular choice with HHI members back in the 1980s.

[KYODE]

i just got a 30-30 improved from ed's. i'm getting ready to start working loads and chronographing very soon. going by the velocities my buddies are getting, looks like it's gonna be hard to beat. 30-30 brass and ammo is among the cheapest out there. lee is now making dies for the 30-30 improved that are just as cheap as the rest of the calibers now also. found that out after i purchased a set of redding dies for 60 some odd dollars shipped. i'm always a day late and a dollar short :roll:
the poster at handgunhunt is also using a rechambered 30 herret. mine is the factory limited run tc barrel. the 300 savage would be great too, i think. but if you're looking to beat the others, i don't think you can do it safely. i think the 30-30 improved is much overlooked. i know of at least two fellers chronographing what it will do. i'm impressed with what they are getting in velocity.

[Shortgun]

I have had 2 .300 savage barrels and neither would handle factory stuff very well. A little too hot, with sticky extraction. It is a fine round when properly handloaded, but I prefer rimmed cases in the contender.

I have a 309JDJ and it is a fine and accurate round. Mine is a rechamber and is not as fast as J.D.'s barrels, but I doubt the 309 will do 2400 with 165's. I can only get about 2200 fps with mine with 165's. Mine will barely do 2400 with 150's and I am using the standard load of 51.5 gr. os IMR4350. It do kick some with that load. It is however one of my most accurate barrels.

I have a 30-30AI as well and find it to be an outstanding caliber in the contender. Using 36 gr. of powder I can safely reach 2350 fps from my barrel and it is accurate as well. 125 Nosler ballistic tips will do 2600 and shoot very flat and have enough power and performance for deer. The 130/135 single shot pistol bullets from Hornady and Sierra will do 2500 fps and provide ample power for deer out beyond 200 easily. All this with less powder and recoil than my 309...I like it.

All three are good deer rounds in the contender,PJ so just pick the one you want and have fun.

shortgun

[SD Handgunner]

I too have been working with a .30-30 Ackley Improved. My started life as a Super 14, 6 Land & Groove, 1 in 14" Twist .30 Herrett Barrel. SSK Industries did the rechamber for me, and I am quite pleased with their work. The turn aroiund time from SSK for this service was only a couple weeks.

I have only tested two bullets so far.

First was the 125gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips. With this bullet I tested 5 different powders, IMR-4198, H-4198SC, H-322, AA #2230, and W-748. The prefered load uses IMR-4198 (just like Shortgun said it would), and is producing 2683 FPS average Velocity in my 6 Land & Groove, 1 in 14" Twist Barrel. The extreme spread of 5 rounds over the chronograph was 57 FPS, with a Standard Deviation of 9.59. The average groups size at 100 yards for 5 shot groups is .673". Cases fall right out of the chamber. The charge is below the MAX listed in P.O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders.

With the 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, again I borrowed Shortgun's Load for this one, which uses IMR-3031 Powder. The charge is again below the MAX listed in P.O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders. Average Velocity for the 150's was an amazing 2437 FPS, with an Extreme Spread of 50 FPS, and a Standard Deviation of 9.38. Accuracy with this one wasn't as good as the 125's, but is still quite good enough for Whitetails. The average for the 100 yard 5 shot groups came in at 1.462" for the 150's.

I am not sure if there is anything to it or not, but I have always heard that the Old Style 6 Land & Groove, 1 in 14" Twist Barrels produced higher velocities and and don't build pressures as fast as the Newer Style Equal Land & Groove, 8 Land & Groove 1 in 10" Twist Barrels. If indeed there is something to this, this could account for the added velocity I am getting while using the same loads as Shortgun is using.

So far I have not found anything with this project or cartridge that has changed my mind about it. I also like the fact that in a pinch I can still shoot factory .30-30 Winchester ammo in it, if for nothing more than fireforming brass.

Considering how much I like this cartridge, IF I insisted on shooting bullets 165grs. and heavier I think the .309 JDJ would be a better choice.

Larry

[PJ]

WOW....the 30-30AL.....Hmmm I'll have to think about this.
Thank's PJ

[SD Handgunner]

Sorry about that PJ, looks like we kind of got off the track a little bit.

Back to your original question, the .300 Savage in a Contender. I have often thought about that round myself on several occasions. In fact about 15 years ago I almost ordered one from SSK. At that time JD Jones said that for a person wanting a high performance round for the Contender with Factory Ammo should give consideration to the .300 Savage. The funding for the project never did develope, and I never did order the barrel.

However when I had my current barrel rechambered last winter I spoke to JD Jones about cartridge selection. Granted JD recommended his .309 JDJ (which I am sure is a fine cartridge), but it was just not what I was looking for. In the end JD recommended the .30-30 Ackley Improved over the .300 Savage. The main reason is the .300 Savage has fairly straight case walls and is a rimless cartridge. As I understand it, with cartridges of this size, rimmed cartridges work much better in the Contender than rimmless cartridges.

From the loading info I have seen over the years for these two cartridges it appears that they are very similar in performance.

Larry

[HBL]

I've had a 300 savage in a 15" contender for over 16 years. The best bullet I found for accuracy and velocity is the Hornady 130gr. Spire point.

I've chronographed this bullet out of my barrel at over 2500fps with no extraction problems, etc. It will, when I do my part, consistently hold 1 inch and below groups at 100 yds. I use H322 with CCI 350 mag primers.

The best bet, if going with a 300 savage, go with the rimmed version using 307 brass.

Any of the above choices are good, but if you want to avoid case forming and fireforming, the 300 savage is a good cartridge to look at.

Good luck with your choice,

HBL

[KYODE]

not a lot i can add here other than i did shoot my 30-30 improved barrel today. i like it! with forming loads of 130gr hornady sp and imr 4198(max listed regular 30-30 data), i got an average of 2355fps. thats enough velocity right there to take deer with the forming loads.

[SD Handgunner]

you left out one important item. How'd they group ?

Glad you finally got to pop a cap on that bad boy. How did the cases form ?

Later

Larry

[KYODE]

mail headed yor way. no groups, because i had to shoot 25yards. my CHEAP Ncstar scope was just that. CHEAP! :cry:  vertical adjustment will not raise high enough. :evil:

[DLH]

  I had the same itch about 9n years ago. Except that I chose the 30/40 Krag. I made mine then made 2 more for my friends, They are the best shooting barrels that we have>( out of about 36 barrels) . They were New but OLD style barrels, 6 groove. I wished I had bought all the store had . He had 2 more, but I passed.
   They all shoot under an inch @ 100yds from a solid rest, and have killed like a hammer.
    I is a simple rechamber, doing the ejector at the same cut.