The CVA electra - but seriously.

[corbanzo]

We have all had the crap shoot over the electra, but I had an idea.  Not as to use it in muzzleloader season, but just to expand shooting sports.

We take the idea of electronic ignition, and the original idea of bullets bonded to powders, to be used loaded through the muzzle.

So then you have your ignition ready, and also your charge and bullet ready, and in one step, without any powder spillage its ready.  It works as a muzzleloader, but very fast.  Not to be used in muzzleloading seasons as I said before.  It's something that could be fun...  just an idea. 

[Redhawk1]

As with anything electronic, there is a possibility of failure for one reason or another. The mechanics of a trigger, hammer and sear is more reliable. The whole idea of an electric ignition system is not very comforting. It would be like turning on a light switch, and nothing happens. But this is just my opinion.

I just know there is no room for one in my gun safe.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

electronic parts have come a  long way. All of todays cars have electronics piled into them. Hate working on them but they are reliable. Hybrids/ electric cars are big on the market today and very reliable.

[alsaqr]

"I just know there is no room for one in my gun safe."

Bingo!!!  i can see something going haywire and the gun firing as the bullet is fully seated.  Saw a guy at a gun shop in WV who was missing most of three fingers and some of the palm of his hand.   A conventional muzzle loader did that while he was loading it.  He claimed that it was cocked but not primed, i doubt that. 

[corbanzo]

So I guess the crap shoot continues... not at all what I was hoping for... anybody want to comment on something on the topic?  Something that has nothing to do with electronic ignition failure?  Or are we still stuck on this...

[Keith Lewis]

In spite of the fact that I would not buy one at this time; there are some very good reasons that the idea may not be such a bad one. I believe that the ignition from an electronic spark may be a lot cleaner than any of the caps or primers that we use for conventional sidelocks or inlines. Ignition may be more consistent also which could add to accuracy improvement. Cost of shooting should be a little less also as there is no cost for the primers and according to what I have read the battery lasts quite long. There are some problems with transportation as the battery has to be removed to consider the rifle unloaded in some areas. It is a lot easier to just remove the cap or primer than to remove the battery although I have not handled the rifle so it may not be a big problem.

[NONYA]

Has anyone noticed how EXPENSIVE they are?

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

A little over $400 in cabelas which isnt to bad.  Remember how expensive the blue/black omega was when it first came out?
Gotta pay for tooling and advertisement for the rifle.

[quickdtoo]

$335 for the low end model.

Tim

http://rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=PR5000

http://rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=PR5000S

http://rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=PR5002S

[jlbeebe]

Time will tell what the future holds for this idea. If it works I think it is a great idea. I have no problem with trying new things. Now if they ever make one of these in a smokeless version I will have to jump on board.

[Redhawk1]

So I guess the crap shoot continues... not at all what I was hoping for... anybody want to comment on something on the topic?  Something that has nothing to do with electronic ignition failure?  Or are we still stuck on this...

What do you want, use to blow smoke up your back side? I guess people just don't like electronic ignition systems. Sound like that is what most here think.

[dmurphy317]

Not sure about the powder bonded to the bullet thing but the electronic ignition idea has may years of use behind it. I read somewhere that the military has been using it for years on multiple weapons systems. I have also read articles about similar systems used in small caliber black powder guns (not mass produced but experimental). One gunsmith even told me about an experiment using a model airplane engine glow plug in place of the nipple to get instant or near instant ignition from a sidelock MLer. I'm not saying one way or the other whether I support their use in a ML season but from a purely shooting sport basis I don't have a big problem with it as long as you follow the safety guidelines the same as you would with any gun.

[corbanzo]

So I guess the crap shoot continues... not at all what I was hoping for... anybody want to comment on something on the topic?  Something that has nothing to do with electronic ignition failure?  Or are we still stuck on this...

What do you want, use to blow smoke up your back side? I guess people just don't like electronic ignition systems. Sound like that is what most here think.

If you noticed, I was really talking about the bonded powder/bullet system.  Where the electronic ignition system comes in is being able to burn all powder fast and effectively.  If you can find a fire ignition system which can do the same, then there you go.  But really, what I was looking for, was throwing one chunk of stuff down a barrel and being able to shoot it fast. 

[AndyHass]

The bullet must still be tight-fitting if you want accuracy, so you won't gain much over the current Hornaday sabot with the stem to hold the pellets.  It is a nice idea of accomplishing the same thing though.

As for the electronic ignition, the assertion that the current system is somehow foolproof is a fallacy.  Plenty of people manage to screw it up and have accidental discharges.  It is true that this is standard ignition on many military weapons systems.  I know when two F-16s crashed near us years ago they were looking for all the cannon ammo that got scattered, and they told everyone it was electronically fired so the shells could not be accidentally set off by kids that found it.

Whether you feel safe with it is your own business, but I do find it a little interesting that a group that is relatively progressive on other aspects of MLing has so many people that feel so strongly about this.  Personally I wouldn't like another battery to worry about, but the mechanism doesn't really concern me.

[NONYA]

Most of use shoot MLs to get back a little bit of nostalgia of the old school firearms,slapping an electronic ignition on a ML completly ruins that,just shoot a centerfire.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

is a break action, scoped inline, smoke less powder shooting muzzleloader "a little bit of nostalgia of the old school firearms"? No.

If you want old school firearms, you must go back to the very first muzzleloaders.
Matchlock,wheellock, flintlock, percussion, mustket.

 Inline rifles are not old school at all. First mass produced inline was in the mid 1980's. 30 year old inline VS 400+ year old, old school muzzleloader.

[NONYA]

If its muzzle loaded with loose powder and ignited with a cap its old school enough for me I "must" go nowhere,I dont need a blunderbuss and a coon skin cap to get a bit of nostalgia like some do.All that matters is the enjoyment I get out of a ML,not your opinion of whether its old school enough or not.They have been making large scale "inline" firearms since the beginning of firearms,take a look back through history,some of the very first rifles were inline in design and many cannons have been as well.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

if inlines are old school, why are inlines classified on this forum under "Modern" Muzzleloading?

[cascadedad]

 Come on NONYA, go all the way with this and put on your loin cloth!!!!  Deep down inside, you know you want to. 

[NONYA]

They are separated in this way so people who see inlines as EVIL (YOU) can have your own little realm where the evil inline owners wont break up your rendezvous.

Cascade,I do but the local law would lock me up in the rubber room and take away my INLINE!

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

haha i own two inlines. Its just when you say old school muzzleloader, thats usually the 400 year old muzzleloader, not the modern 30 year old inline.
Now i must go clean my inline.

[cascadedad]

if inlines are old school, why are inlines classified on this forum under "Modern" Muzzleloading?

 It is my understanding that there used to be problems on the MLing forum, because some peoples' "interpretation" of what a MLer is excluded some of the other Mlers.  These problems made it necessary to make each group go in their own rooms so everyone could get along.  But, people are kind of like cats, they can be seperated for a while, but if they want to fight, eventually, they will find a way to fight.......even if it is about the most trivial, nonsensical thing you can find (i.e. electronic ignitition, de-resonators, etc.)

Personally, I think people get too hung up on what everyone else is doing.  Obey they laws, use what you want and be safe.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

These people???     Sir i will not listen to that kind of racism 

[NONYA]

Cascade if we all agreed on everything this would be a very boring forum,as for getting hung up on what other people are doing,they post what they are doing here to share and get feed back,that is what a forum is about.You telling us how trivial the topics are that we argue about is no different than one of us telling someone a product is worthless,just another opinion on the topic at hand,take a look in the mrror before you start pointing fingers.

[cascadedad]

Most of use shoot MLs to get back a little bit of nostalgia of the old school firearms,slapping an electronic ignition on a ML completly ruins that,just shoot a centerfire.

Your speaking out of both sides of your mouth.  You want to get back to a little bit of nostalgia, but only where you want to draw the line.  Anybody that goes farther than where you draw the line, you say, "just shoot a centerfire!".  Exactly what you have condemned in the Traditional Forum.  You are doing the EXACT same thing.  Only difference is where the line is drawn.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Most of use shoot MLs to get back a little bit of nostalgia of the old school firearms,slapping an electronic ignition on a ML completly ruins that,just shoot a centerfire.

Your speaking out of both sides of your mouth.  You want to get back to a little bit of nostalgia, but only where you want to draw the line.  Anybody that goes farther than where you draw the line, you say, "just shoot a centerfire!".  Exactly what you have condemned in the Traditional Forum.  You are doing the EXACT same thing.  Only difference is where the line is drawn.

Exactly.

My opinion is a little different, I feel that if you  shoot smokeless powder, you may as well shoot center fire.

[NONYA]

Cascade.SO WHAT? Its my opinion and its just as valid as ANY OF YOURS and you can condemn it tell your blue in the face,it wont change a thing.I dont understand the smokeless option either,what fun would a ML be w/o the huge cloud of white smoke it produces?

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Cat fight!! 

[NONYA]

More like kikn a dead horse contest.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

  lol