Author Topic: .243 owners? (Read 1482 times)

aldar · « **on:** September 21, 2007, 02:16:35 PM »

Took the .243 I bought for my daughter out the other day. I was shooting Hornady 95gr SST's behind 40grs of IMR4350. The gun shot all over the place! I'm talking a 6"-8" spread. I couldn't belive it. Talked to a guy who is on a SWAT team here about the performance and he figured the scope might be the culprit. I took the gun and measured the chamber with a modified OAL case(split neck so bullet slides) and found the shortest measurement was 2.775 and the longest was 2.785! All the manuals list a max OAL at 2.710. My question is has anyone else had a .243 like this one? could this also cause the erratic groups? PS: I also shot my .280 that day. I was able to put 6 of 12 shoots inside of a 1/2", so it's not me; and the guy on the SWAT team is the sniper. Ideas anyone?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2007, 02:49:13 PM »

If the 243 is a Superlight, you'll likely need to use a different powder, Hodgdon data and H4895 with the Speer 100gr work for mine and Stimpy's Superlights, keep the barrel cool and take your time shooting, the light barrel heats very fast, mine will put the first two inside ½", then the 3rd opens the group to 2" if I shoot 3 rounds in less than 2 minutes.

I'm working on a 95gr SST load myself with H1000, one of our New Zealand members shoots that load in his Superlight, gets moa accuracy. My COL is 2.783" which is .010" off the lands, H&R rifles in general are long throated, no surprise there, at least the lands can be reached in the 243, that's not possible in some other H&R chamberings like the 223 and 7x64.

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »

There is nothing written in stone that any 1 particular load combination will shoot good out of different rifles...Also...having a long throated Handi is very common...Your hand loads still should reach the lands with the bullet...and I suggest you load out close to the lands but not touching...You may have to work up more with them as well...or down...to find a sweet spot...on the powder charge...and even then your particular rifle may not like those bullets or powder...

Mac

aldar · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:55:46 PM »

it sounds like you both feel it's a load issue and not the scope. that's good in a way, I didn't want to have to buy another scope. The barrel is a standard .243. I would only shoot 3 at a time letting the barrel cool a few minutes between shots. I'd then shoot the .280 to let it cool down even more. I'd even take a walk down range to give it more time. Do you think having the bullets seated so far off the lands in itself, would cause the erratic groups? I was loading them to the max specs at 2.710.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2007, 04:20:22 PM »

Sorry, when you said it was your daughter's 243, thought maybe it was a youth Superlight 20" barrel.

The loads still apply tho, Handis don't often like max loads, mild to mid is usually more accurate, I load close to the lands whenever I can, can't always tho, so most just load to recommended COL if they can't reach close to the lands. Loading longer that recommended COL is Handi friendly tho, it reduces pressure as long as you aren't touching the lands. I don't have any data for IMR4350 and the 95gr SST, but what I do have makes me think that may be a little too warm, the Lyman 48th shows 39.5gr max for the 100gr Hornady, and 45gr max for the 90gr Sierra, Nosler shows 41.5gr max for their 95/100gr bullets. I'd back off a couple grains and work that load up. Just out of curiousity, will one of those fired cases go back in the chamber so it's flush with the chamber mouth?

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2007, 05:31:03 PM »

Hodgdon's Annual puts the 95 grain Nosler partition at 42 grains of IMR 4350...and the bearing surfaces are similar...so I don't think your too high...provided you have worked the load up safely...and while others have had real good luck with that powder in their 243...I haven't..I have had good luck with max loads of Reloader 22 and H4831SC and Remington 9-1/2 primers...and that was in the bull barrel...not the standard barrel...As to the case lengths...I'm reloading for my 25-06 Ultra right now...and took a picture for you of a factory Winchester Supreme 115 gr Silver BT...and a hand load with the same bullet but in a Remington case...Here's what it looks like...

The max O.A.L measured on a Hornady/Stoney point gauge for the 115 SBT in my rifle is 3.410" and I load to 3.407"...the factory COL is 3.178"...That's a lot of bullet jump...and I hope to get my groups well under 1/2" with my hand load for deer season...As it is...I am at and just under 3/4" groups with this factory ammo...How did you settle on that paticular load...did you work up to it as Quick asked?...If not...starting low and working up in small increments is the normal way of doing things...Will a lot of bullet jump make a difference in yours...usually some...but not as far as what your getting for groups... For best accuracy...it can effect it...but not that much...usually....I think it could be a scope issue...and it could quite well be a number of other things as well...Several folks like Fred seem to think the Handi's don't do well with near max or max loads...I haven't found this to be true in any of my rifles with my bench techniques..but I have found to achieve the velocities I do...you do have to find the powders they like...other wise mid level loads are the norm...Check the FAQ's and you will see there can be several issues with these rifles that can make you pull your hair...Luckily...none to difficult or expensive to correct...You will need to try 1 thing at a time and see if it helps...it's a lot easier to keep track that way...

Mac

aldar · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2007, 02:25:22 AM »

thanks guys, I picked that load because it was a mid level load and my daughter can shoot it without any problems. I do have some IMR4831 and RL22 on hand. I'll give them a try also. think I'll start by moving the bullet out a ways too and see if that makes a difference. Quickdtoo; a fired shell will go all the way into the chamber until flush. I don't have a neck sizer for the .243 so all are full length resized before loading again. After full length sizing, a shell will fit the chamber flush also. Never saw any signs of too much pressure in any of the loads.

Hank McMauser · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2007, 04:19:16 PM »

I would check out the scope,mine was loose ,well to be more exact the locking ring for the eyepiece was loosened up somehow,when I would snap the rifle shut,the occular piece would shift without me knowing it. Being the most of the motion was up&down,the rifle was stringing vertically,actually it was more like printing two different widely spaced groups depending on the position that the eyepiece landed.
This was with a leupold rifleman scope it's now on my mauser 8x57 and I havea walmart tasco on the 243 It's still minute of beercan at 100 yds even at near dusk could barely make out the can sitting in the middle of the road it was so dark! (if it werre my old simmons aetec the can would've been visible at midnite with a partial moon)
Hank

sanso1 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2007, 08:21:41 AM »

I'm getting 1moa with 39.4gr h380+80gr pills (low-med charge).. had them already loaded for my savage bolty. thinking of trying slower H4350 but after reading this post, don't know

Mac11700 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2007, 08:27:09 AM »

H414 or Varget would be a good choice with the 80 grainers..or even some 760...

Mac

Tony Gable · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2007, 09:10:49 PM »

Quote from: aldar on September 21, 2007, 02:16:35 PM

Took the .243 I bought for my daughter out the other day. I was shooting Hornady 95gr SST's behind 40grs of IMR4350. The gun shot all over the place! I'm talking a 6"-8" spread. I couldn't belive it. Talked to a guy who is on a SWAT team here about the performance and he figured the scope might be the culprit. I took the gun and measured the chamber with a modified OAL case(split neck so bullet slides) and found the shortest measurement was 2.775 and the longest was 2.785! All the manuals list a max OAL at 2.710. My question is has anyone else had a .243 like this one? could this also cause the erratic groups? PS: I also shot my .280 that day. I was able to put 6 of 12 shoots inside of a 1/2", so it's not me; and the guy on the SWAT team is the sniper. Ideas anyone?

Hi Aklar,

I have a .243 in a Handi with an SB2 Ultra barrel. Mine likes 35 grains of IMR 4064 behind a 100 gr Hornady PN# 2453. I know the barrels are different but you might want to try the 4064 with your bullets in the 34 to 36 grain range. Might work out real nice for you. Don't try the nosler ballistic tips in the .243. From what I've read and experienced the are real tough to get to shoot with good accuracy. Just a thought and hopes this helps. Good luck. I almost forgot, seat the bullet .010 off the lands.

Tony

aldar · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2007, 01:54:27 AM »

Ive got nearly 2 full box's of the 95gr SST's and want to find a load that works with'em. I have three different powders and to work with and started loading last night. I post what I find later. One more question; do slower or faster burning powders work better in the .243?

aldar · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2007, 09:47:29 AM »

now I'm mystified. started all over with starting loads in IMR4350/4381 and RL22. worked up in .5 grs. increments. Still shot all over the place. I went and bought a new fixed power 4x scope and a box of factory Remingtons in 95grs. again it would send them all over the place. The last 4 rnds shot I took off the fore-end and shot it that way. was probably the best "group" at about a 5" vertical spread. I'm sure this isnt a super-light barrel, but it does get hot real fast. I was waiting about 1 1/2-2 minutes between shots, plus it's pretty windy today so I figured it would cool down quick enough.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2007, 10:05:40 AM »

If the barrel is 20" long, it's a Superlight, 22" it's a standard Handi. If the inaccuracy continues, I'd contact H&R and make arrangements to send it in for repair on their dime.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2007, 10:07:28 AM »

And just in case....

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,116451.msg1098375514.html#msg1098375514

aldar · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2007, 10:36:12 AM »

thanks Quick
it's a 22" barrel. I had shot it will the "O-ring" and without, same results. It just has me baffled seeing as my .280 shots MOA or less.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 24, 2007, 10:43:00 AM »

Make sure there's no oil on the latch or latch shelf, that alone will cause issues to no end, as well as not pulling the trigger all the way to the rear at the break. When you shot it without the forend, did you place the front rest under the frame? If you've covered all those bases, and know for sure the new scope is a good one in properly mounted solid rings on a loctited base, get with H&R for help.

Tim

aldar · « **Reply #17 on:** September 24, 2007, 11:28:57 AM »

I'll take it completely apart tomorrow and clean it and dry it. even try the scope base as you suggested. This rifle seems to have a lighter trigger and I believe that I am pulling all the way back.
thanks again

tutti confuso · « **Reply #18 on:** September 24, 2007, 01:11:31 PM »

not ruling out the possibility of your scope or loose mounts or stock problems , i'm curious what is the rate of twist in said barrel, in the cases you loaded what was the the oval lenght of the empty case you had loaded, and are you using a crimp .? ? ?

not ruling out the possibility of your scope or loose mounts, etc., an stock problems... i'm very curious.... 1] what is the rate of twist in said barrel . ?
2] in the case you fired, what was the over-all Lent of the empty cases you were loading up ?

3] and are you using a crimp ?

Quote from: aldar on September 21, 2007, 02:16:35 PM

Took the .243 I bought for my daughter out the other day. I was shooting Hornady 95gr SST's behind 40grs of IMR4350. The gun shot all over the place! I'm talking a 6"-8" spread. I couldn't belive it. Talked to a guy who is on a SWAT team here about the performance and he figured the scope might be the culprit. I took the gun and measured the chamber with a modified OAL case(split neck so bullet slides) and found the shortest measurement was 2.775 and the longest was 2.785! All the manuals list a max OAL at 2.710. My question is has anyone else had a .243 like this one? could this also cause the erratic groups? PS: I also shot my .280 that day. I was able to put 6 of 12 shoots inside of a 1/2", so it's not me; and the guy on the SWAT team is the sniper. Ideas anyone?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** September 24, 2007, 01:33:58 PM »

243 H&Rs have a 1:10" twist.

Tim

aldar · « **Reply #20 on:** September 25, 2007, 08:27:16 AM »

I think I'm on the right track now. Re-adjusted the FL die and loaded up the last of my 87gr bullets. tried 4 different loads with RL22. I actually got groups! Best was about 1 1/2" at 100yds with a 4x scope. not bad. Either the die wasn't adjusted right, or this Handi will not shoot a 95gr bullet.