Author Topic: What do you use a 357 carbine for? (Read 6387 times)

Goat · « **on:** September 22, 2007, 12:38:37 PM »

Just got a Marlin 1894C and wondered what you used yours for. I plan to use mine for a truck gun and on 4 wheeler rides on my hunting lease. I know it will cleanly take deer as I have done it in the past with the first 1894C that I had. What are your favorite loads? Do you prefer cast or jacketed bullets? The carbine came with a Williams foolproof receiver site with target knobs. I already have a Williams 5D that I intend to put on it. Thanks, Goat

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2007, 11:27:29 AM »

I've hunted everything with mine from squirrels to deer. For an all around gun, and ranges up to 100 yards it's hard to beat a 357 rifle in my opinion.

Oldtimer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2007, 01:45:12 AM »

I found that in our area, the .357 is a good turkey cartridge. I use 158 grain cast SWC and a moderate load of powder. It puts down a turkey with authority but does not tear up the meat.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2007, 03:42:06 PM »

Quote from: Oldtimer on September 24, 2007, 01:45:12 AM

I found that in our area, the .357 is a good turkey cartridge. I use 158 grain cast SWC and a moderate load of powder. It puts down a turkey with authority but does not tear up the meat.

That's the biggest thing with this caliber. You have to match the proper load to the game being hunted. If you handload, it's easy, and the possibilities are endless. If not, you can still use heavy factory offerings for deer, etc., and 38's for smaller stuff.

Cayoot · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2007, 03:30:22 AM »

148 grn Wadcutter sitting on top of 2.7 gr of Bullseye makes this the dandy-est rabbit gun I ever had. I have to hand feed these cartridges because they wont come out of the tube or chamber on their own, but it is so accurate and does such a nice job on wabbits that it is well worth the hassel.

It is also a dandy home gun loaded with .38 spl lswchps and a great little deer rifle.

LOVE THIS GUN!!!!!

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2007, 02:31:53 PM »

Quote from: Cayoot on October 20, 2007, 03:30:22 AM

148 grn Wadcutter sitting on top of 2.7 gr of Bullseye makes this the dandy-est rabbit gun I ever had. I have to hand feed these cartridges because they wont come out of the tube or chamber on their own, but it is so accurate and does such a nice job on wabbits that it is well worth the hassel.

LOVE THIS GUN!!!!!

Try loading that same load with regular old cheap lead round nose bullets, and you'll get the same effect, except they'll chamber from the tube then.

Cayoot · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2007, 02:45:58 PM »

Jerry, do you really think a RN would drop a rabbit as well as a wadcutter? That seems to go against all logic to me. Just thinking about how much better a fn .22 lr does on squirrel and rabbit than a rn does seems to dispute that. However I have never shot a rabbit with a rn .38...you use your .357 in more hunting than anyone else I know of though. Do you use rn on rabbits? What is the effect?

Will_C · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2007, 05:45:08 AM »

I bought a 1894C after overdosing on Jerry Lester's posts! So far, mine has been a "fun" gun, but I look forward to trying to shoot some small game with it. I also plan to use as a walk-around gun during deer season; my plan is to shoot a doe with the Marlin or my S+W 686. I topped mine with XS sights.

Will

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2007, 04:45:33 PM »

Quote from: Cayoot on October 20, 2007, 02:45:58 PM

Jerry, do you really think a RN would drop a rabbit as well as a wadcutter? That seems to go against all logic to me. Just thinking about how much better a fn .22 lr does on squirrel and rabbit than a rn does seems to dispute that. However I have never shot a rabbit with a rn .38...you use your .357 in more hunting than anyone else I know of though. Do you use rn on rabbits? What is the effect?

Yes, I've killed hundreds(literally) of rabbits, and squirrels with a 357 rifle. I've used a lot of low powered combinations for that purpose, but I used to be very fond of a 125g SP loaded in 38 cases, and fired at around 800 fps or less. This combo offers absolutely zero expansion, and is still a thumper on small game. "Any" 35 caliber bullet fired at any velocity is gonna be more than enough for a rabbit or squirrel.

You can't really compare the results from 22 caliber bullets with a 38 special where small game is concerned. That .357" bullet is so much larger in diameter that even if it was long, and pointy it'd still thump a rabbit or squirrel way better than any 22 caliber bullet.

ratgunner · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2007, 12:32:28 PM »

Jerry,you should write a book on your findings and experiences with the .357.I even have a title idea for you "The Original Magnum".What ya think ?

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:28:33 PM »

I'm not much of a writer, but even if I was I'd rather spend all the time it took to write a book out busting unsuspecting critters with a nice "blunt" bullet...

Dee · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2007, 12:03:11 PM »

I too have killed a lot of squirrels and stuff with my 357mag rifle. My light load is a cast (wheel weights) 158 grain SWC loaded to about 700 fps. Hard on rabbits, and I compare it to a croquet mallet for taking head shot squirrels out of trees. 158 grain jacketed soft point, and I will take whitetail inside 100 yards, and it will put a 350 to 400 lb feral hog down. We have lots of those here where I live. I have used a Navy Arms (Rossi) Model 92 but, I think I going to swap it for a Henry Big Boy in same caliber. Anybody got any experience with them?

jschance · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2007, 03:47:18 PM »

I've been hunting deer with mine this year

I worked up a load using a Speer 170 grain Gold dot soft point over a hearty charge of Lil Gun powder. Over a chronograph it's running right up against 1700 fps. I shot a nice doe just yesterday at about 60 yards or so and it dropped her in her tracks. I'm now a believer and I think I've got a new favorite deer gun.

I had a couple of .38 special 125 grain rnfp cowboy loads in my pocket just in case I was attacked by a squirrel or rabbit while in my deer stand, but so far I haven't had to drive off any invaders.

Old Griz · « **Reply #13 on:** November 24, 2007, 05:33:08 PM »

I bought a 1894 Cowboy .357 for CAS, but never got the time for a single match. However, I love the little .357 lever action. I plan to use it on coyotes and other varmints. With .38 LRN it is more accurate at 100 yards than my 336. It is really a hoot to shoot! From bunnies to deer it's a great gun and the most fun to shoot. Everybody needs one.

azmark · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2007, 07:16:16 AM »

Would the .357 carbine be enough to put down a black bear? I want something to use for hunting coyotes (haven't tried it yet) and I understand that there's no telling what may show up when you call predators. The black bear is the biggest thing around here, and they are not all that big in Southern Arizona. My son, whose mind is not yet cluttered with an overabundance of information, noted that a .357 lever action would go well with the .357 revolver we have for HD.

Cayoot · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2007, 07:26:22 AM »

.357 Carbine would do just fine on a blackie. Just use a minimum of 158 grn bullet, stay away from hollow points and use .357, not .38. You do your part (start with knowing where to shoot a bear) and that carbine/cartridge combo won't let you down.

azmark · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2007, 07:37:54 AM »

Since you mentioned it, I'm not afraid to ask...got any idea where I might find a graphic or something to show me what their anatomy looks like?

6.5BR · « **Reply #17 on:** December 16, 2007, 01:09:21 PM »

This is what you might be looking for : google: black bear anatomy

http://www.theidahosportsman.com/bear%20anatomy.pdf

azmark · « **Reply #18 on:** December 16, 2007, 01:29:09 PM »

Thanks for that link. That's a good presentation.

jneilson · « **Reply #19 on:** December 17, 2007, 03:22:12 PM »

Are you guys saying a 357 lever gun is a good substitute for a 22, plus it can take deer and pigs or black bear if need be? How loud is an 18" barreled 357? My wife doesn't care for loud nosies near the house unless she's making them.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2007, 03:36:10 PM »

Also, what is recoil like with full power 357 and medium power 38 spl?

Cheese

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2007, 06:30:14 PM »

Quote from: jneilson on December 17, 2007, 03:22:12 PM

Are you guys saying a 357 lever gun is a good substitute for a 22, plus it can take deer and pigs or black bear if need be? How loud is an 18" barreled 357? My wife doesn't care for loud nosies near the house unless she's making them.

I'd compare it more as a substitute for a 22 magnum when you load it for small game. Don't be fooled by this comparison though, because it's carrying a LOT more thumping power even at these reduced velocities, it just doesn't blow'em up. As far as the noise level, it's still quite a bit louder than any 22 when 357 brass is used. Now you can load light to medium powered 38 specials, and the report is similar to a 22 long rifle. I don't recommend 38 brass in 357 chambers though.

Cheesehead,

The Marlin 1894C recoils just a tad lighter with full house 158g 357 magnums than a 30-30 lever action. With 38 specials they recoil about like a 22 magnum rifle.

Dee · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2007, 12:42:05 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Lester on December 17, 2007, 06:30:14 PM

Quote from: jneilson on December 17, 2007, 03:22:12 PM
Are you guys saying a 357 lever gun is a good substitute for a 22, plus it can take deer and pigs or black bear if need be? How loud is an 18" barreled 357? My wife doesn't care for loud nosies near the house unless she's making them.

I'd compare it more as a substitute for a 22 magnum when you load it for small game. Don't be fooled by this comparison though, because it's carrying a LOT more thumping power even at these reduced velocities, it just doesn't blow'em up. As far as the noise level, it's still quite a bit louder than any 22 when 357 brass is used. Now you can load light to medium powered 38 specials, and the report is similar to a 22 long rifle. I don't recommend 38 brass in 357 chambers though.

Cheesehead,

The Marlin 1894C recoils just a tad lighter with full house 158g 357 magnums than a 30-30 lever action. With 38 specials they recoil about like a 22 magnum rifle.

I would agree with all said here, with the exception of the 38 special brass being fired in 357 chambers. Having personally fired thousands of rounds of 38 special ammo, both reloaded and factory, in a variety of 357mag, revolvers and rifles, and I have never had a problem, nor have I seen or heard of anyone else "actually" having a problem, and have seen other officers do the same, without problems. In the 70s and early 80s, when I was doing a lot of training with this round, I personally have fired, and have seen others fire, in excess of 500 rounds EACH, A DAY "EACH", using 38 special light loads, in 357 mags with zero, ill effects, and sometimes only wiping down the "exterior" of the weapon for the next days shooting. In training schools I have seen this take place for 2 weeks at a time, and no ill effects. At the end of these marathon training secessions, qualification rounds would be required, with full power 357 mag DUTY ammo, in the SAME weapons used in the training secessions. I have seen weapons go down under this kind of shooting in high volume (500 rounds + a day) but, never for this reason, and I have never seen or heard of an ACTUAL occurrence. Will the 38 special cause a residue build up? Of course, but nothing that cannot be removed with a normal cleaning. Having said this, and given my own experience, and the first hand knowledge of countless others with this type of range time with these two rounds, I personally HIGHLY RECOMEND using the 38 special brass, especially for training and small game hunting.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2007, 08:29:09 AM »

DEE,

I borrowed this from the Marlin Owners forums. It's a reply that I wrote over there about my experience with this. I just copied, and pasted it here because I type with one finger, and this is easier than writing it all over again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, you'll find probably 100 guys that'll tell you that the only problem is a hard fouling build up at the front of the chamber that'll cause 357's not to chamber untill it's scrubbed out. This is true, but "Definitely" not the only problem that can occur from shooting 38's in a 357 chamber.

38's, especially when loaded at lower pressures can "burn" a nice ring into the upper wall of your 357 chamber. I think it's a combination of not enough pressure to seal off the gasses from being forced back past the case mouths, and a powder with a high flame temperature. I'm only speculating on the cause, although from the evidence I've observed in two seperate rifles, I feel sure this is it.

The first rifle was my own(the last one I owned). I had fired pretty much nothing but full house 38 specials through it for at least a couple years when I got the notion that if I found just the right sub-sonic HP load, it'd be perfect for night time predator hunting in populated areas. After several weeks of experimenting I had a very nice cut in the top third of my chamber that matched up perfectly with the case length of a 38 special. This was no "fouling build up", but a "cut" that was a good .003" deep.

It's a shame that I didn't actually notice it at that point. One of the last brainstorms I had while working on that perfect sub-sonic load was to trim my 38 cases back to 1 inch, and try a slow burning magnum powder just to see how slow I could really get a .357" bullet to leave the barrel while maintaining a consistent velocity, and some form of accuracy. I shot exactly 50 rounds of these 1 inch cases packed full of IMR-4227. I can't remember the exact bullet, or primer I used now.

After abandoning this quest for the perfect quiet load, I decided to switch back to full house 357 magnums for some reason. I was short on brass, and when I'd fired all I had, I resized them, and noticed a crack in one just about where the base of a seated bullet would be. When I checked the rest, I found that every single one had two shiny rings about a third of the way around them, and about .01" apart. Of course when I checked my chanmber I was shocked to find the reason for it.

The amazing thing was that the shorter cases did more damage in 50 rounds than all the other 38 cases combined. The ring at the end of the 1 inch cases was at least .005" deep or more.

I showed it to quite a few people till a friend of mine told me I was crazy even after seeing it for his self. He bet me that I couldn't duplicate it in his rifle. I loaded up exactly the same load in the 1 inch cases, and proceded to burn exactly the same ring in his barrel.

Sorry so long, but I felt like you, and anybody else that doubts this should at least know what I've found out about the matter.
_________________
Squealing rabbit, sneaking predator, 357 rifle, and frozen fingers. It just don't get no better than this!

Dee · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2008, 11:21:29 AM »

Well, here is one more thing I do with my 357mag rifle (Winchester Model 92 clone from Navy Arms). It's not a carbine, it has a 24" octogon barrell. But any way, about 30 minutes ago, I nailed a coyote at about 150 yards with a reload in 158 grain jacketed soft point loaded to about 1900fps. Reaction? Bang flop. Wife said she never saw any thing fall that fast.
I did cheat a little. Several years ago I drilled and tapped it, and mounted a Lyman apeture rear sight on it with a white stripe post front, just like the one on my 50 year old Model 94 Winchester 3030. This one I have been shooting most of my life, and the 357 gets more carry time.
My area has become so populated that I use it MOST of the time, because it doesn't have the range rifle cartridges have. It will take the biggest hogs (we have some around 400lbs) as good as a 3030 inside 100yds, and deer a little beyond.

WyrTwister · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2008, 07:31:22 PM »

Quote from: Goat on September 22, 2007, 12:38:37 PM

Just got a Marlin 1894C and wondered what you used yours for. I plan to use mine for a truck gun and on 4 wheeler rides on my hunting lease. I know it will cleanly take deer as I have done it in the past with the first 1894C that I had. What are your favorite loads? Do you prefer cast or jacketed bullets? The carbine came with a Williams foolproof receiver site with target knobs. I already have a Williams 5D that I intend to put on it. Thanks, Goat

I have a Winny M 1892 re-barreled or re-bored / chambered to .357 Mag . Only shot it once so far . For fun .

God bless
Wyr

T.R. · « **Reply #26 on:** April 18, 2008, 09:04:20 AM »

This photo comes from Paco Kelly's site. 357 MAG proved to be quite useful in S. Africa when flat tip hard cast bullets or Hornady XTP bullets were shot into the right spot! I'm told that the impala in this photo toppled after a few jumps.

Jack

Cabin4 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 20, 2008, 04:58:05 AM »

Too many people underestimate the capability of the 357 mag. With the new bullets and the velocity you can get out of a lever, really make it a very good med game killer. Deer, goats, hog, cougar, no problem. I think you can do bear over bait with it as well.

If you think about it, you have a 35 caliber broad metplate bullet say at 180 grains traveling at low lever gun velocities. Sounds like a game killer to me.

jager · « **Reply #28 on:** May 03, 2008, 02:44:12 PM »

I've got a "legacy" (old Rossi) '92 Puma SS with a 16.5 inch BBL. I don't think it is too loud, compared to a pistol in this caliber, and it is one "sweet" carrying rifle that weighs under 6 pounds. Dee, you mentioned a "Big Boy" Henry in this caliber. I've handled one and they have one of the "slickest" actions made; but it is sure heavy (more so than a .44 mag. or .45 Colt with the same contour barrel). Another slick action lever in an octagon barreled carbine or rifle is a 1873 Uberti, or Navy Arms (made by the same company). It is chambered in a .357 Mag, among others, and while it doesn't look to be as strong as the Henry the company doesn't limit it from standard factory pressure ammo, which is right up there. Both makes are reputed to be accurate with the right ammo. My Puma is my "cross-over" gun when I want more range capability then a pistol, but don't want to carry a "full grown" rifle. It's length is right at 33" overall. I haven't used it to take a deer yet, but I'm confident it will do the job if I do mine.

Dee · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2008, 12:35:16 PM »

My Model 92 with it's 24 inch octogon is heavy too, but it sure is steady. After looking at the Henry, and comparing my Rossi with all the work I have done on it, I will opt to keep my Model 92. It's slick, very accurate, and after about 4 years of carry is starting to look like my rifles should look. CARRIED!