Author Topic: 357 magnum for deer?  (Read 1907 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Goat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Gender: Male
357 magnum for deer?
« on: September 23, 2007, 11:52:06 AM »
I know that I am opening a can of worms but I want to know your experiences. I have taken deer with a Marlin 1894C carbine and a hog with a Ruger GP-100. I Know What worked for me but want to know what did or did not work for you. Do you think that cast or jacketed bullets work best. This will not likely be a primary hunting rifle but could be called on to be a back up when hunting with my 41 Blackhawk. Thanks for your replies!
                                                                                                                           Goat
To knowHim and make Him known

Offline Jerry Lester

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2007, 02:06:20 PM »
I can't comment on hogs, but for deer, I prefer 158g SP's(Remington bulk) at a muzzle velocity of around 1700-1800 fps. This is a deadly combination for deer. I've tried a lot of other combinations, some good, some great, and some that were down right pitiful, but this is the combo I recommend now.

A lot of guys use cast bullets with good results too, so you might think about that option.

Offline 6.5BR

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 207
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2007, 03:00:30 AM »
Interesting, as I concluded the same bullet was my choice, w/Lil Gun, it seems like it would penetrate better than an HP.....

Offline 6.5BR

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 207
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 10:18:41 AM »
Chrono'd my loads today, 2032, 2050fps w/158's in my 357 1894 w/Lil Gun, I am happy.

Offline Cayoot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Gender: Male
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2007, 02:01:07 AM »
I can't comment on hogs, but for deer, I prefer 158g SP's(Remington bulk) at a muzzle velocity of around 1700-1800 fps. This is a deadly combination for deer. I've tried a lot of other combinations, some good, some great, and some that were down right pitiful, but this is the combo I recommend now.

A lot of guys use cast bullets with good results too, so you might think about that option.

Jerry,
For some reason, I thought you preferred HPs.  In fact, based on (what I thought was your opinions), I was going to try HPs this year. 

Can you give us a source for your Remington bulk 158 SP's?  I'm having a bit of a problem locating them at a reasonable price.

Thanks

Bary
Thanks from the Frozen Northwoods!!!

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” – John 3:16

That still amazes me…I don’t care who you are or how much I care about you, I would never let you kill my son.  I can’t even begin to understand how much He loves us.

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26944
  • Gender: Male
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2007, 03:22:44 AM »
Check out GBO Sponsor Midsouth Shooters Supply. They stock them at the cheapest price I've found. But be aware these days cheap is a relative term. ALL reloading components have taken HUGE price increases as of Sep. 1 and are likely to do so again on Jan. 1. Most everything took a 15% to 35% hike the first of September.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Cayoot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Gender: Male
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2007, 08:37:36 AM »
Thanks, I'll check them out... I prefer to support the sponsers of this board anyways!

Bary
Thanks from the Frozen Northwoods!!!

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” – John 3:16

That still amazes me…I don’t care who you are or how much I care about you, I would never let you kill my son.  I can’t even begin to understand how much He loves us.

Offline Sverre A.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 512
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2007, 12:32:00 PM »
Jerry Lester:

Have you tried 180 gr. XTP?

I have shot some deers with 158 HPXTP/1750 fps - and they have worked fine, but I thought I should try 180 gr..
Why?  I don`t know  ???

Offline Jerry Lester

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2007, 05:37:53 PM »
Jerry Lester:

Have you tried 180 gr. XTP?

I have shot some deers with 158 HPXTP/1750 fps - and they have worked fine, but I thought I should try 180 gr..
Why?  I don`t know  ???

The 180g XTP-HP's are definately enough for deer. I've just found that, contrary to some beliefs, hydrostatic shock "does" play a part in quicker kills. Actually what I'm calling quicker kills is how fast a deer hits the ground for good. I've killed a LOT of deer with the 357 magnum fired from rifles, and I've consistently observed that with all other factors being relatively equal, a bullet impacting a deer at say 1500 fps tends to drop them quicker than the same bullet impacting at 1200 fps. Of course there are a lot of variables that also effect the out come, but I've observed this enough to be confident that a little extra impact velocity aids enough to be helpfull.

I've never been one to base my beliefs on what I've read, or what I've attempted to make myself believe from other peoples experiences. I've Personally experienced everything with the 357 on deer from absolute bullet failure to terminal performance so good that a bazooka wouldn't have killed it any quicker, with the majority of instances falling in the middle somewhere. I've accumulated what I know, and stand firm on from killing deer well into the 3 digits at this point with a 357 magnum, not to mention the hoards the I've witnessed friends shooting, and comparing the results of dozens of load combinations. Honestly, there are numerous loads that'll knock a deer on his butt under the right circumstances. I've even killed them with 38 specials, and 125g SP's. It all depends on the bullets construction, shot angles, and "impact" velocity. Muzzle velocity actually means very little in deciding the out come.

The Remington 158g SP is with out a doubt, THE best deer bullet for the 357 magnum rifle. There are a lot of other bullets that are almost as consistently effective, but none I've tried is 100% as good as this bullet. I don't fully trust "any" HP design for one reason. Not very often, but it only takes once, a HP will catch just the edge of the high ridge bone that runs down the middle of the actual shoulder "blade" just right, and it can deflect so bad that it can result in a raking wound that literaly looks like you slashed a deer with a chain saw. This is a situation that ends with a very messy deer, a long tracking job, and possibly a horribly wounded deer being lost. I'm not talking about shooting him at a sharp angle either, it can happen from almost a dead on straight shot.

The Remington 158g SP's have proven to be the best overall performer on deer for me. It causes decently wide wound channels, busts bones, drives reasonably straight through a deer, penetrates like crazy, and allows a high enough impact velocity to impart a good bit of hydrostatic shock resulting in consistently quick kills. All this, and it's unbelievably accurate in nearly every gun I've run it through. Even the ones that didn't shoot it great shot it plenty good enough for deer hunting.

I have no doubts that a normal hunter could use just about any reasonably constructed bullet in his 357 rifle, and have good results. If that same hunter used that same rifle on just a couple ADC hunts where shooting 5 to 20+ deer in one day was common place, he'd quickly weed out the load combinations that weren't "quite" good enough.

Offline Cayoot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Gender: Male
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2007, 03:10:21 AM »
Excellent Post Jerry..Thanks
Thanks from the Frozen Northwoods!!!

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” – John 3:16

That still amazes me…I don’t care who you are or how much I care about you, I would never let you kill my son.  I can’t even begin to understand how much He loves us.

Offline LouisianaMan

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 111
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mangham Family in the Civil War
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 04:42:56 PM »
Jerry,
I will get my hands on some Remington 158g SPs, per your advice. In the meantime, what I have on-hand are HPs of several types. The Speer 158g GDHP is very accurate in my Marlin 1894C, and the Winchester 180g Partition Gold combines weight/penetration with premium construction. I noted your specific concerns about HPs, as well as your emphasis on impact velocity. Given your broad experience, what do you think of the two loads I mention? Also, assuming reasonable shot placement, what do you consider the maximum effective ranges of these loads for whitetails? I don't own a chronograph, so don't have a very good handle on velocities from my 18.5-inch barrel. . . .

Thanks for an excellent, authoritative post!
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline Jerry Lester

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2007, 08:50:36 PM »
Given the choice between those two bullets, I'd go with the 180g Partitions. If you're handloading them, run'em up to maximum(safely of course), and keep your ranges under 100 yards. You should reach 1600+ fps(muzzle) fairly easy, and with a good chest shot, I think you'll be impressed.

Offline LouisianaMan

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 111
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mangham Family in the Civil War
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 05:36:57 PM »
Thanks Jerry, Since I'm shooting factory ammo in this instance, do you happen to know what the approximate velocity would be on the Winch Partition Gold from my 1894C? It's listed velocity is 1180 fps from an 8" vented barrel. I'm guessing 1450 or so out of a carbine?
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline Jerry Lester

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 06:13:18 PM »
Thanks Jerry, Since I'm shooting factory ammo in this instance, do you happen to know what the approximate velocity would be on the Winch Partition Gold from my 1894C? It's listed velocity is 1180 fps from an 8" vented barrel. I'm guessing 1450 or so out of a carbine?

Honestly, it's really hard to tell what it'll be. Listed velocities hardly ever are close to "actual" velocities in the first place, then trying to factor in the longer barrel is hard to do because different bullet styles/weights are affected differently in the barrel.

The best thing to do if you really want to know is shoot it at 50 yards, then at 100 yards. Note the difference in rise/drop compared to your zero range(75 yards for instance), and the measurement from the center of the sight line to the center of the bore, then have somebody run the data on a balistics program. My self, I'd just sight it in at 75 yards, note my drop at 100 yards, take it out, and drop a few deer with it. ;D

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: 357 magnum for deer?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2007, 10:45:54 PM »
You just can't beat Remington bullets. 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~