Need some 45-70 fav loads No one held responsible 22" Handi

[fanner50]

Just getting started with Handi in 45-70. Not going to use BP probably H4198 Would like to hear pet loads with 405 gr lead or 350 gr jacketed. I may pour my own in a Lee mold or time constraints my necessitate buying Laser cast or Hornady. I fully understand that any data is for your rifle and may not function the same in my rifle. Loads will be approached with caution.
Thanks in advance - F50

[linwin3000]

Fanner50,

  We need more info from you. How hot or not hot do you want to load to, also I`m assuming you are loading for a Handi, is this so? Get back to us.
                                                       Richard

[fanner50]

Loading for a Handi 28000 cup max. 3031, 4198, Just looking for a place to start. What is the recommended load level in the Handi ?

[linwin3000]

  Handi rifles are more capable than we are. That being said it is usually frugal and easier on our shoulders to stay within the level two listings or less. My experience is that everything one needs is in these areas.

  IMR-4198- 42 grains- 300 grain Sierra-  1800-1900 fps- very low deviation

  This load is comfortable and easy to shoot, yet provides the boom-boom that we crave! It is a duplicate load of the factory 300 gr. high velocity loadings and will put the first three shots into an inch at 100 yards, in a good rifle. Also, this load really anchors mule deer bucks!

  IMR-3031- 48 grains- 400 grain Speer- 1550 fps in a guide gun, 1650 fps in a 26" tube- also low deviation and accurate. One might think that this load is a little light for Elk but it has dramatically proven otherwise!

  Recoil is starting to get stiff with this load yet it is a uniform and accurate loading, load density is about 95%

  IMR4198- 30 grain- Laser Cast 400 grain- 1300-1400 fps- Very uniform and a great shooting light load

  A superior cast bullet load that does not lead and is light recoiling and very uniform. Shoot this load all day long!

  There you have three loads that have stood the test of time for me and that won`t hurt you.

                                                                Richard

[linwin3000]

Fanner,

  Forgot to say that one can sub any of the above jacketed slugs with Laser-Cast hard lead. Here`s another load that came to mind.

  XMP5744- 30 grains- 350 grain Laser Cast- 1352 fps average in 26" tube

  An outstanding light load. This powder is a fluffy and case filling powder that is not sensitive to powder position, was designed to shoot well in straight wall cases and it does.

[quickdtoo]

Gary,

A nice light load that a lot of Handi owners like is 28gr Alliant 2400 under the 350gr Hornady RN, dunno the velocity, but it's likely around 1350fps, has worked very well on deer even tho the 350gr Hornady is too hard to perform at that velocity, the FN would work better but you'll likely have to load it short if your 45-70 has the typical short throat. It's very accurate in my peep sighted 45-70, with my eyes, I can still shoot 1½" 100yd 3-shot groups with it.

I've worked a couple loads using H322 and IMR4198...both loads shot 1½" from the scoped Handi, but the H322 load was exceptional in the scoped BC.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,102319.msg1098277453.html#msg1098277453

The only H4198 load I've worked is Mac's favorite with the 300gr Nosler PP, a healthy dose with Rem 9½ primers in Rem nickel brass, crimped with the Lee FCD gives me 2425fps, lots of recoil on this one tho.

Tim

[cpj]

For a wussy load, 11 or 12 grains of Unique behind a 405 grain lead bullet. Only problem is that it doesnt fill the case up much. Im a firm believer in a case stuffed full is a more accurate load. But thats me, your mileage may vary.
If you want the same wussy level, use 12 grains of Trail Boss, it fill the case up nice, and is still very easy on the shoulder. I can shoot 50 of them and not fell any pain. Is it a slow load? Yep. But I think that a 405 grain bullet going around 1000 FPS will kill a deer just fine.

[Cat Whisperer]

An observation - FWIW.

Just retruned from a single-shot rifle match.  Took the .458WM (Ruger #1) and the .45-70 Handi rifle.

Several bullets from 350 - 400 - 420 grains.

One load - 28.5gr 4198 with tuft of dacron to postion the powder.  (Not necessarily a great load, just the starting load picked out of the book.)

Of note:  90 rounds fired from the 458WM (loaded into case) and 75 rounds from the 45-70 (breech seated).  Cleaning was just two wet patches (Ed's Red) and two dry patches.

One rifle did better from the bench, the other offhand.

[McLernon]

I will be using 350 gr Hornady JFP with 50 gr. of IMR-4064 for deer this fall. It shoots 4 inches high at 100 yards and 9 inches low AT 200 yards and has a PBR of about 185 yards for a ~9 inch target. (And it is always LESS than 1.5 MOA)

Recoil is mild in my XLR.

Mc

[whiteoper]

I will second cpj on the 12g of unique or trail boss  behind a 250g boolit as beeing a fun plinker.  At least it is out of the guide gun.
Roscoe

[Freightman]

I use this load with my BC and with a M-1867 Rolling Block so the pressure is like Black powder  This is a duplex load because it cleans up the unfired powder a magnum primer does the same. The bullet was a 500g LEE C457-500f cast from wheel weights and loaded at .459. Shoots the same in the BC, just had this target from last Friday.  The data is on the back of the target (white). The MV was taken at 15' from bench. Both loads crno the same 1330/1352 from a 34" barrel.
Forgot to add this is at 100yds with a tang sight and a Lyman globe front.

[MSP Ret]

I need some help deciphering those loads please:


.5cc 3021
52.4-872

and the one I am most interested in: 
 
4  -  2400
52.4 - 860

is the second load using 2400 powder? if so how much?  is 860 the velocity?
what is the 4 in the first line and what is the 52.4 in each series of numbers?
is the .5cc a dipper size?

Thanks for a full explanation....<><....

[The Goose]

My current favorite .45-70 load is a Remington 405 gr. JSP being pushed by 44 grs. of Reloder 7. The recoil is a bit stiff, but manageable. I find this to be a very accurate load.

[Freightman]

I need some help deciphering those loads please:


.5cc 3021
52.4-872

and the one I am most interested in: 
 
4  -  2400
52.4 - 860

is the second load using 2400 powder? if so how much?  is 860 the velocity?
what is the 4 in the first line and what is the 52.4 in each series of numbers?
is the .5cc a dipper size?

Thanks for a full explanation....<><....

Sorry to confuse, I am use to posting on another board where this process is used all the time, Sorry. The powder in question is Alliant 2400,  IMR 3031, WC860, and WC872. The loads are duplex ed with the faster powder is over the flash hole, then the main charge of WC860 0r WC872 is placed over or on the top and gently compressed to hold the powder in place (this will be done by the bullet) then crimp to build pressure as these are low pressure slow powders. The 4 on the 2400 is 4 grains the .5 on the 3031 is the .5cc LEE dipper.
The WC860, and WC872 are pull down surplus powder from 50BMG shells and very slow (you can't get enough in the 45/70 case to hurt anything, the reason for the faster powder is straight the powder is dirty but with the faster powder it is cleaner The powder (both) are = to AA8700.
Sources are http://hi-techammo.com/ http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm
Hope this clears up some, PM me if not.

[Awf Hand]

An observation - FWIW.

Just retruned from a single-shot rifle match.  Took the .458WM (Ruger #1) and the .45-70 Handi rifle.

Several bullets from 350 - 400 - 420 grains.

One load - 28.5gr 4198 with tuft of dacron to postion the powder.  (Not necessarily a great load, just the starting load picked out of the book.)

Of note:  90 rounds fired from the 458WM (loaded into case) and 75 rounds from the 45-70 (breech seated).  Cleaning was just two wet patches (Ed's Red) and two dry patches.

One rifle did better from the bench, the other offhand.

Cat Whisperer,

Could you post a pic or describe the tool you're using to breech seat on the Handi??

Thanks in advance

[Cat Whisperer]

Pictures follow, but the short answer is that it was a 1/2" diameter dowel about a foot long.

The KEY was the bullet - tapered just right so that it engraved just like it SHOULD - pix will show it too.

[Cat Whisperer]

Here they are:




Bullet was last one of nearly 80 used in the match.  It has been seated in the breech into the rifling (note engraving).

Loads have not been worked up for accuracy yet.  Lube was a thinned Lee Liq. Alox and rolled in Motor Mica.  Dacron underneith to hold powder in place.  VERY easy to cleanup after.  Was VERY clean shooting - bullets did not leave black ring in target as did non-breech seated bullets in another rifle - using the same load.

Seater works, but there is no stop to ensure consistant seating depth - that's next.

[dumgunny]

My 2 cents,
   Its hard to go wrong with IMR4198 under a 300gr bullet. My Franken-Trapdoor and My BC both like the 30 grains (I actually use 27) of 4198 under 300gr Bullet load mentioned at  the top. It shoots very clean the recoil is manageable even in my 16" contender Carbine, & it is good deer medicine out to 200yds. Its not the fastest or hottest, but like my Dad says " Would you rather be run over by a mosquito going 100mph? Or a bus going 25MPH?
JMHO
BT

[GrampaMike]

Fanner50,
My most accurate load for a 405 Cast bullet (405gr Beartooth LFN GC) and the H&R Buffalo Classic is 38.2 grains of Alliant Reloder 7.  Case trimmed to 2.095" and C.O.L. of 2.545".  My chrony gives me 1805 fps.  My software tells me this is 78% Load Density and 26,838 PSI and 2931 energy.  I am with Richard about the Laser Cast bullets though , especially the True Shot versions, really like them, but in this case the Beartooth bullet gives me the best accuracy.  Note: According to my load notes I have tried 108 different loads so far in the my BCs.  Mike

[coyotejoe]

Best load I've found for my H&R Shikari with 28" barrel is the Remington 300 grain HP over 16 grains Unique with a tuft of Dacron filler. Three shot groups run about 1 1/2" at 100 with peep sights. That does a bit over 1800 fps, much like the Remington 300 grain factory load. I've also used the 300 grain Laser Cast with 10-15 grains of Unique, not quite so accurate but still good enough for 100 yard hunting loads. The 10 and 11 grain Unique are subsonic and quiet with hardly any recoil. The old 45/90 was highly respected as a black powder hunting rifle and it ran a 300 grain at a bit less than 1500, so I feel anything in that neighborhood should be fine.

[coyotejoe]

OOPS, my bad. I mis-read my notes, that 16 grain Unique load does 1300 fps, not 1800. Still, one large mule deer buck I conected with never knew what hit him, much less how fast it was going.

[edgemark]

60 grains of 3031 under a 300 grain Remington shoots under MOA in my Handi. I guess that it is right around 2,000 fps and very slight compression. Factory crimp.

edge.

[andrewtheelder38]

....If this is any help, I shot my newest handi rifle in 45-70 today with this Load

385 grain cast lead bullet....Lyman #124

with 28.2 grains of IMr sr4759

approximately 1350 ft/sec.

accurate as all get out....

nailed a "clay pigeon" on my paper target at 100 yards of hand first try and it printed 1.5 inch groups over and over again

and i shake like an old woman.....

[handirifle]

Here they are:

Bullet was last one of nearly 80 used in the match.  It has been seated in the breech into the rifling (note engraving).

Loads have not been worked up for accuracy yet.  Lube was a thinned Lee Liq. Alox and rolled in Motor Mica.  Dacron underneith to hold powder in place.  VERY easy to cleanup after.  Was VERY clean shooting - bullets did not leave black ring in target as did non-breech seated bullets in another rifle - using the same load.

Seater works, but there is no stop to ensure consistant seating depth - that's next.

Cat
Have often wondered about the Shutzen style of loading, how do you insure the bullet is against the powder that way?  Is it obvious when lloading the case?  Seems to me the case would have to be really belled out.  Do you resize the case at all?  I know some say by not resizing, the case holds more powder since it's still expanded, but my H&R 38-55 target model, wouldn't fully seat the case in the chamber when not resized.