Author Topic: 45 Colt/454 Casull thoughts (Read 8913 times)

quickdtoo · « **Reply #30 on:** October 09, 2007, 01:34:20 PM »

Uh oh, no one has a 460 S&W reamer!!

I email Fred to see if he has one, he doesn't list it, has the Casull, but no 460 listed. Gonna call White Rock tomorrow at Wayne's recommendation. $:-\$

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #31 on:** October 11, 2007, 07:27:29 AM »

No 460 reamers available unless I buy one, but Fred at 4D intends on getting one, thought about just doing the Casull now, then the 460 later, but after another sleep on it, I think I'll just wait for Fred to get a reamer, so for now the rechamber is on hold.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #32 on:** January 19, 2008, 06:04:03 AM »

Still waiting for a 460 reamer to rent, Fred doesn't have one yet and won't be getting one until he sells off a bunch of his unneeded tools. I could buy one from Pacific Tool & Die for $147 tho!!

Tim

McLernon · « **Reply #33 on:** January 19, 2008, 06:54:53 AM »

I think this 'stuff' you guys are dong with these 'pistol' cartridges is neat. Ideal for roaming the woods and plinking. Wish we could do that in southern Ontario. If it were legal here I'd be into this 'stuff' too.

I guess I'll have to be content to plink away with my 270 Weatherby magnum;D

Mc

BilAZ · « **Reply #34 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:50:59 PM »

Tim,
I used a throat reamer.. I did not have to open up the rim in the handi.. its snug but the head space is just right.. the factory cut mine a little large..
check yours might be OK.. once reamed with a throat reamer the 460 S&M works fine...

Bill

quickdtoo · « **Reply #35 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:06:29 PM »

I checked it long ago, Starline 460 brass won't fit in the rim cut on mine, but I could just turn em down with a file in my drill press after seating a bullet in the them to support the brass. Did ya use a .458" throater from 4D, or his 45 Long Colt throater?

thx,

Tim

BilAZ · « **Reply #36 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:15:11 PM »

Tim , I used a 45 colt throat reamer.. I also use star light 460 S&W brass, with no rim trouble.

Bill

BilAZ · « **Reply #37 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:19:53 PM »

Tim, you could have Wayne open the rim in the barrel on the lathe.. then rent the throat reamer an be done with it..

Bill

quickdtoo · « **Reply #38 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:25:57 PM »

Yeah, I remember the 454 thread, but like I said, it won't go into the rim cut on mine, there's no way to make it fit without trimming .002-.003" off it. Doesn't reaming the throat long enough to change the chamber diameter, make the throat way too long?

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayitem.php?rowid=407&tname=rental

BilAZ · « **Reply #39 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:53:32 PM »

Tim, I made my own reamer from a colt reamer. it allows a 300 gr hp/xtp bullet to be seated .075 below the lower canular an just touch the lands.
so load to the bottom canular an it will keep the pressure down with a normal load, the top will lessen case cap. an cause pressure to go up... this is what I found.. the 460S&W is a hand full.. the 454 is just plane fun, If I were to do it again I would stay at .454...
good luck!!!

Bill

quickdtoo · « **Reply #40 on:** January 20, 2008, 03:00:38 PM »

Well, I'm not buying my own reamer, and modifying one isn't an option even if I wanted to spend the money on one, so it's still a waiting game.

Thx,

Tim

navylawdog · « **Reply #41 on:** January 20, 2008, 04:17:57 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on January 19, 2008, 06:54:53 AM

I think this 'stuff' you guys are dong with these 'pistol' cartridges is neat. Ideal for roaming the woods and plinking. Wish we could do that in southern Ontario. If it were legal here I'd be into this 'stuff' too.

I guess I'll have to be content to plink away with my 270 Weatherby magnum;D

Mc

I know I am happy using my .257 WM I just sold my .300 the other day and will probably regret it someday.

navylawdog

tom45 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 04, 2008, 06:57:11 PM »

Hello, I am new to the forum and came across it trying to find info on this exact subject. I have a BC carbine and want to ream it out to 454 Casull. I took it to my local gunsmith whom I have been giving business to for years (actually just rebarreled my 45 SAA), and he told me there is no way he would do the conversion and that the idea was unsafe and irresponsible. I know the chamber/barrel thickness and frame strength is plenty to handle the 454, or possibly 460, but he refuses to do the work. Is there someone I can send my barrel to to do the conversion? I mostly want the 454 for the stronger case and the availability of powerful factory ammunition, as no one around here carries the Buffalo Bore 45 Colt. I like the 45/70 chambering in the Handi Rifle as well, but I would like to be able to shoot cowboy 45's in my rifle. It would also make it impossible to chamber one of my "business" rifle loads in my SAA by accident if I loaded all the rifle loads in 454 cases. Any response would be appreciated, thanks.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #43 on:** February 04, 2008, 07:07:06 PM »

Welcome aboard!

Unfortunately, there are many ignorant people, gunsmiths included, that don't have a clue to the strength of the SB2 Handi frame. Take an H&R catalog to your smith and show him the 500 S&W listed in it and maybe he'll get a clue!!

Wayne York of Oregunsmithing has done several Handi rechambers to Casull, there's no problem with it, if I could find a 460 S&W reamer, he'd do one for me, it's already been discussed if you haven't read this entire thread. He's done several rechambers and/or rebores for me and many members here, he does excellent work.

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/index.html

tom45 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 04, 2008, 07:29:32 PM »

Thank you very much for the info, I'll get ahold of Wayne sometime soon. I didn't mention the 500s&w specifically to him, but I did tell him that the rifle is chambered in much more powerful calibers. If he was not familiar with the Handi rifle and the strength of the design, I cannot fault him for playing it safe. In most cases, rechambering a 45 colt to 454 Casull does sound like a VERY bad idea. I might even receive a phone call from him if he decides to do some research on the subject!

My Ruger level 45 Colt loads using the 325 grain CP bullet are shooting about 2" at 100 yards in this rifle right now. I do have the Williams sight on it that comes on the BC 45/70, made a world of difference for me.

I'll make sure to post results when I get it back.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #45 on:** February 04, 2008, 07:38:00 PM »

2" @ 100yds is about what I get with a scope using the 250gr SST and the 250gr Speer GDHP, both at a little over 1900fps.

Tim

tom45 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 04, 2008, 07:59:29 PM »

I was very surprised at the accuracy with the peep sight. I don't know what it would have done with the factory sight, however, as I had the Williams on it before I ever shot it. It was obvious from the start that the Wiliams would give it a serious sight radius advantage. No doubt the 454 chambering will open up the maximum range using a stouter load with a more aerodynamic bullet. The only problem I'm going to have now is here in Ohio we can't use rifles for deer hunting and this one would be great. It's going to be one great hog/plinking rifle, though. I can always get an Ultra slug 20 ga barrel for it so I can deer hunt with the action, stock, and trigger I am used to, or just plan to go out of state, which I feel I would do to be able to use it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #47 on:** February 04, 2008, 08:47:16 PM »

You could always step over into Indiana and take advantage of their pistol chambered rifle deer hunting law!! I'd use either the 250gr or 300gr SST in the Casull, that should reach out and touch some deer for ya. Smokeless Savage muzzleloader shooters push the 250gr to over 2600fps, so it should be a great deer bullet at Casull velocities. The 250gr has a BC of .215, the 300gr is .250, even in Ruger loads in the 45 Colt, the 250gr at 1900fps MV should be deadly on deer past 175yds.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,123810.msg1098431266.html#msg1098431266

georgeld · « **Reply #48 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:46:35 PM »

Tim:
As I've never seen one yet.
What's the bore like on these??

# lands,groove's, Twist, full length rifling?

I've got a .45 colt ordered now.
Listing Jennifer sent had .444 listed which I'm not interested in.

What about the .357 mag barrel, same questions.
Would appreciate knowing before it gets here if I could.

Have you shot yours over a chronograph? OR is that 1900fps from the tables somewhere?

At this time, I don't have any interest in .454, but, I do shoot .45 colts in my blackhawk and would use the same cast loads.
Neither do I have any interest in hotrodding either rifle, or revolver. 19gr H110/250 swc is plenty for my use, won't hunt with it either.

Thank you,
George

quickdtoo · « **Reply #49 on:** February 07, 2008, 05:24:25 AM »

Here's my intial reports on the 45 Colt barrel, it's a rifle barrel, not a 410/45 Colt barrel. Velocities are from actual range shooting over my Chrony, the ballistic charts are calculated with Sierra Infinity software.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,118245.msg1098387522.html#msg1098387522

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,118881.msg1098392036.html#msg1098392036

Haven't slugged the 357 yet, but no one has complained about how they shoot, the only complaint is the poor chamber, there's a thread by Cat Whisperer on that if you want to use the search for it.

Tim

tom45 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 07, 2008, 05:45:07 AM »

I have recently found out the T/C Shock Wave is a .452 polymer tipped bullet as well. Is this their version of the SST or is it different? If I load these in Colt cases, are they crimped in the same way as any other bullet, or do I need a new die? Was just wondering as there is no crimp groove. I plan on simply seating them to take up the same case capacity as other 250 grain bullets I have used as a starting point for seating depth.

Also, does anyone know if the Barnes boattail bullets for muzzleloaders are .452's? I can measure them when I get them home, but I would prefer to not buy a box of bullets at $1/bullet if I can't use them.

I also think I am going to stay with the .45, as the velocities are nothing to scoff at and this barrel already shoots so well with the .45's, both cast and 300 grain XTP mags. Lil'gun has been my powder of choice for 357/44 mags and heavy .45 Colt.

Just a side note, I absolutely love the BC carbine. I have always been a fan of the looks of the 45/70 BC, but carrying that 32" barrelled monster through the woods is less than convenient.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #51 on:** February 07, 2008, 05:59:39 AM »

The TC Shockwave is a Hornady SST with a different colored tip and a higher price tag!! I crimp with the Lee factory crimp die, works well with or without a cannelure. Can't helps ya with the Barnes MZ, their price tag doesn't cut it for me. Cabelas has the best price on the SSTs in boxes of 25 with low drag sabots.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,124487.msg1098436387.html#msg1098436387

tom45 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 07, 2008, 06:06:32 AM »

I figured the Shockwave was the same as the SST. Local gunshop close to here is out of the SST's and I'm going shooting tomorrow. They have T/C's on sale for $10/15. Kind of tells you about peoples' opinion of the SST, not being able to find them, that is. I considered the Barnes to find out if the boat tail would help significantly, but it might not be necessary as I don't think I would regularly pay that price either.

tn_junk · « **Reply #53 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:50:51 AM »

I have a .460 S&W Encore (20") and I have found it more accurate shooting the .45 Colt than the .460. I haven't yet found a .460 load that it likes, but it shoots just about any .45's like nobody's business. Haven't tried the Casull yet, but have some loaded and hope to get to the range this weekend.

alan

krod47nw · « **Reply #54 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:27:28 PM »

Tim,
Not sure if this violates any forum rules. If it does, delete it and let me know please. Why don't we see if everyone interested in a 460 S&W will kick in a few bucks and we can buy Wayne the reamer? Even if they are not interested at the moment, they may be in the future. It shouldn't be that hard to raise $150 or so. That's not that many $35-$40 rental fees. I don't even have a 45 colt barrel yet , but I would kick in $20-$25 or so for the future.

Kevin

quickdtoo · « **Reply #55 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:34:04 PM »

As long as we get Graybeard's blessing on it, we may be able to do it, just as long as it doesn't get into a situation where there's profit to be made!!

PTD wants $147 for the reamer, plus shipping, say $10, a reamer rents for about $35, if we can get 5 people interested, if Bill OKs it, maybe we can do it. I'd be willing to order and pay for the reamer if all goes well.

Now if I could just talk Wayne into becoming a sponsor, that would be great!!

Tim

tom45 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:55:42 PM »

I tried the 250 SST bullet, and the results were confusing. The SST hit higher than my heavyweight hardcast, putting 100 yard zero just out of reach for my sights (rear sight set all the way down). I thought the heavier the bullet, the higher the point of impact, that's what I've experienced with revolvers, anyway. My question is, why is this bullet hitting higher when it should be hitting lower? Is there a factor I am missing? Does the hardcast 325 provide enough extra drop to make it hit lower? I would like to be able to use the SST bullet after my 454 or 460 rechamber, but my sights don't reach. Is there anything I can do but install a higher front sight? Will slightly reducing the powder charge lower the point of impact enough? (2-3") Thanks.

Tom

quickdtoo · « **Reply #57 on:** February 07, 2008, 01:19:27 PM »

I think the front sight is the highest that Williams makes at .570", you'd have to go to a lower rear sight I think. Adjusting powder may work if it's accurate, but my luck is usually the opposite, the more powder up to a point, the more accurate it gets, but not always.

My eyes are too old to use the iron sights, so I have to use a peep or a scope. $:-\$

Tim

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=61&catid=271&step=2

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4686.htm

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4895.htm

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4223.htm

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4901.htm

krod47nw · « **Reply #58 on:** February 07, 2008, 01:38:23 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 07, 2008, 12:34:04 PM

As long as we get Graybeard's blessing on it, we may be able to do it, just as long as it doesn't get into a situation where there's profit to be made!! PTD wants $147 for the reamer, plus shipping, say $10, a reamer rents for about $35, if we can get 5 people interested, if Bill OKs it, maybe we can do it. I'd be willing to order and pay for the reamer if all goes well.

Now if I could just talk Wayne into becoming a sponsor, that would be great!!

Tim

Even if we could get more people to kick in a little less, if that thing shoots good, everyone will want one. It's just the way of the Handiholic.
In my opinion, that's why we are here, to help each other out. There's no sense in each of us buying a reamer. But ultimately it's Graybeard's call and I understand that, and don't want to violate any rules.
Let me know what he decides.

Kevin

quickdtoo · « **Reply #59 on:** February 07, 2008, 01:55:38 PM »

Before we do anything, I need to contact Fred Z at 4D and see if he's gonna get a reamer any time soon, that would give him some business as a sponsor, if he knows he has several customers waiting for one, maybe he'll get one sooner.

Tim