Author Topic: 45 Colt/454 Casull thoughts (Read 8594 times)

quickdtoo · « **on:** September 29, 2007, 11:23:50 AM »

I've been toying with the idea that possibly the 45 Colt BC carbine barrel could be used with shortened 454 Casull brass much like the 357 Mag barrel can be used with shortened Max or 360 Dan Wesson brass, so I did a chamber cast today, the chamber is 1.300" long, Colt max length is 1.285", Casull length is 1.383", not much help there, so the best answer to utilizing the Colt barrel to its max would be to just rechamber it to Casull, so the Colt barrel will be going to Wayne for rechambering.

Tim

dumgunny · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2007, 12:08:18 PM »

Why not just take it on out to a .460 S&W? Then you could shoot all three!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2007, 12:24:38 PM »

Wayne's opinion is the 460S&W would be too much for an H&R frame with pressures equal to the 270Win at 65kpsi, but with less case contact within the chamber, since he's comfortable with the Casull, so am I. I have three 45-70 H&Rs to take over duties above the Casull, so the 460 would be in the 500S&W niche, a novelty at best in a rifle. IMO.

The 460 would also overwhelm the terminal performance capabilites of the 300gr SST spitzer style bullet I want to use in the Casull too, other than the 275gr Barnes(BC .215), the Hornady SST is the only .452" bullet with a relatively high BC, .250 for the 300gr, .210 for the 250gr.

Tim

Guy Pike · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2007, 01:08:13 PM »

The six pointer I dropped in Quebec last year with my 500 S&W Handi didn't have the time to appreciate the novelty!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2007, 01:11:36 PM »

I have no doubt!!

Tim

handi243 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2007, 01:28:18 PM »

Tim, wouldn't it be quicker to just rent a remear and do it yourself just asking?

guimus · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2007, 01:31:26 PM »

any idea how much the rechamber is going to cost? I really want to have a .454 rifle to match my super redhawk, but I don't feel like spending a whole lot of money on it!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2007, 01:40:29 PM »

It would be quicker, but not a lot less expensive, a rented reamer will cost about $40 with shipping, and there's no guarantee that I'll end up with a perfect chamber that's not egg shaped and out alignment with the bore, and then I'd have to rent a throater to extend the throat also, Wayne will do a perfect chamber on a lathe for not a lot more.

Since there's no ejector work needed, I expect it'll cost $50-$75 plus shipping.

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Pistol+Calibers

dumgunny · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:02:04 PM »

I KNEW he'd have a good answer!

Although the versatility of a handi in .460 (making it a platform for testing and plinking/hunting with at least 4 different calibers) would seem to me to elevate out of the "novelty" status. A light weight carbine that can handle .45S&W,.45LC,.454Casull, & .460S&W....... Oh Well, I wonder if anyone has ever chambered a handi in.......445 supermag?

McLernon · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:31:34 PM »

Tim:

That's a potent looking little pill you have there!

Mc

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:48:25 PM »

Thanks Mc, that's just a Colt round, the 250gr does a little over 1900fps, the Casull should push it considerably faster.

Quote

Oh Well, I wonder if anyone has ever chambered a handi in.......445 supermag?

Lots of members here have hand reamed their 44mags to 445 SM, they'll push a 300gr XTP to ~2000fps, but they've been done on older overbore barrels, it will be interesting to see if the newer barrels have tighter chambers as well as the tighter bores, the older barrels had sloppy chambers from the reports of buldged brass.

Tim

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2007, 04:53:08 PM »

SAAMI spec on the .454 Casull is also 65,000 and even less case to grab the sides of chamber. Don't see his logic.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2007, 05:31:48 PM »

Geez, this CUP vs PSI business certainly makes comparing chamberings a real pain. All the Casull data is in CUP, 460 data is in PSI, and there's no reliable conversion formula. $:-\$ But the fact that the Casull and the 460 being loaded to the same pressure makes the 460 more inviting for sure. I did find a SAAMI chart that shows the 270 Win having a SAAMI MAP of 52kcup or 65kpsi, so that would make the 50kcup of the 454 Casull less than 65kpsi in my way of thinking, but the difference in the bore size may have effect on the two measurments.

Tim

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2007, 05:36:40 PM »

I believe SAAMI for both is 65,000 PSI. You can't look at CUP vs. PSI for the .270 and compare that to either round. There is no direct relationship between CUP and PSI and for some one is higher than the other but it varies by round and with many they are very nearly the same. But I think both the .45s have the same SAAMI rating.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2007, 05:43:51 PM »

The 460 may be a moot point anyway, I'm pretty sure Wayne has the Casull reamer, I don't know if he has the 460 reamer, if he doesn't, the rental would add another $35 to the cost.

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2007, 05:57:54 PM »

Humm, pardon me saying this buddy but the last I remember your 45Colt barrel was a real shooter. And to turn it into a Casull seems odd, but then again it seems a matter of why not other than needing a real practical reason for this project huh?

If not then you have 3 45cal Handis capable of that purpose

I like the thought of the 45Colt as what it is. And it sounds like a lot of fun in it's own..but limited.. merit. Not really much of a hotrod...
Have fun!

-Aaron

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2007, 06:06:02 PM »

Same reason as the 405 Winchester, 35 Remington, 338-06 and 45-120, just cuz and no one else has a Casull or a 460 Handi!!

Same reason everyone reams their Mags to 357Max, take your pick, any or all.

As Dumgunny said, I can still shoot em all in it. It's a good shooter now, so it should still be a good shooter after a proper rechamber, every one that I've had done so far have been, no reason for that to change.

Tim

dumgunny · « **Reply #17 on:** September 29, 2007, 06:45:45 PM »

Quote from: myarmor on September 29, 2007, 05:57:54 PM

I like the thought of the 45Colt as what it is. And it sounds like a lot of fun in it's own..but limited.. merit. Not really much of a hotrod...
Have fun!

-Aaron

Mebbe not, But I'm thinkin' that anything within 150yds that gets hit by a big ol' .250gr boolit lopin' along at 1900FPS ain't gonna ever have to worry whether it came from a Mopar or a Moped!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** September 29, 2007, 06:49:58 PM »

Aaron, another reason is I'm just not the plinkin type, never have been, not even with a 22Lr, just not my cup O'tea.

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #19 on:** September 29, 2007, 07:28:35 PM »

Well, I never questioned it's effectiveness or potential there of on game. And at around 1900 fps and a 250gr bullet I am quite sure it will put down many a critters. Pushing a 45Colt down a 20" barrel opens it up quite a bit.
Always looking for your options Tim, there ain't nothing wrong with that

dodd3 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 29, 2007, 08:13:45 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on September 29, 2007, 06:06:02 PM

Same reason as the 405 Winchester, 35 Remington, 338-06 and 45-120, just cuz and no one else has a Casull or a 460 Handi!! Same reason everyone reams their Mags to 357Max, take your pick, any or all. As Dumgunny said, I can still shoot em all in it. It's a good shooter now, so it should still be a good shooter after a proper rechamber, every one that I've had done so far have been, no reason for that to change.

Tim

tim sounds good to me,look fprword to a report when its done.
bernie

whiteoper · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2007, 05:47:03 AM »

As soon as I got my 45, I started thinking about the 454 conversion. One concern I have is will the 45 colts still shoot as good in a 454 chamber with the added freebore??? Tim you will have to let us know how well your 45 colt loads shoot after your rifle is rechambered if you decide to procede with this project.

Roscoe

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2007, 06:33:51 AM »

I've thought about that, since I reload, it's not an issue, I'll just load the Casull or 460 to Colt levels if that's an issue. Those that shoot factory ammo may have issues with it, but the 357maxi clan shoot 38spcl and 357mag in their 357Maxis so, I don't really see that as a problem, particularly with the Colt in a Casull chamber, there's only ~.100" difference in case length, some H&R rifles have way more freebore than that and shoot very well.

Wayne has to rent either reamer, so I just have to decide which way to go, the cost of brass is quite a bit higher for the 460 at $53 a hundred compared to $31 for the Casull, dunno yet, need to do more thinkin on it, the Casull will actually do all I want so....

Tim

Foggy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 02, 2007, 10:54:43 AM »

I was toying with a 45colt /454casull conversion. I see I'am in good company. I don't know much about the new S&W calibers except the revolver that shots it looks like it was designed by congress. Sounds good to me

handi243 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 02, 2007, 11:47:58 AM »

Tim have you measured the chamber to see if it is long like the 357mag using the 360 dw brass?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2007, 11:55:46 AM »

My opening post has the chamber specs.

Tim

handi243 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2007, 03:10:52 PM »

I should have read fully

6x6 elk · « **Reply #27 on:** October 03, 2007, 01:13:00 PM »

I could be wrong but I've heard that both Thompson and NEF have tried to get the 454 Casull to shoot well ,but there is a problem with accuracy.The problem is with getting the bullet to stabilize with a longer than pistol lengh barrel?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** October 03, 2007, 01:28:40 PM »

6x6, since the Casull isn't available from H&R, dunno what source you heard that from, and Krochus got pretty good accuracy out of his 20" 460 S&W Katahdin barrel even with a holographic sight, so that's likely just an unfounded rumor you're alluding to.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,121412.msg1098411391.html#msg1098411391

I talked with Wayne today, he's all for the 460 S&W rechamber, he's already done a couple Casull rechambers on H&Rs, so the 460 is what I'm going for, ordered brass, dies and bullets already, need to make a dummy cartridge for him so he knows how deep to throat it.

Tim

dumgunny · « **Reply #29 on:** October 03, 2007, 06:44:25 PM »

I knew he couldn't resist!

That thing will be great for anything from Big Mice to Small Elephants! I even have a "gallery" load I'll send ya, I worked it up for my Rossi lever gun in .45LC using a dab of 2400 (I also tried 777 fffg) and some of those .457 dia soft lead round balls they made for use in the Ruger Old Army seated and lightly crimped about halfway into the 45lc brass.
Oh, and BTW:

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TO BE FAIR,I THINK YOU SHOULD NAME THE THE RIFLE AFTER ME!