444 Marlin Handi Barrel

[6mm06]

Well, now that the 35 Whelen is no longer being made, and after learning that there are problems with this particular barrel, I decided to check out NEF's list of barrels once again.  It's been a while since I looked.  I found the 444 Marlin listed.  That's a new one since the last time I checked.

The 444 Marlin, in my opinion, is a fine cartridge with a close-range big-bore punch.  I have a Marlin lever rifle in that cartridge, and it has dropped two wild boars as if they were pole axed.

Does anyone have experience with this barrel?

Thanks.

6mm06

[quickdtoo]

I've shot a few different loads in the .444 H&R, it's very accurate with them all.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,118245.msg1098387522.html#msg1098387522

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,118881.msg1098392036.html#msg1098392036

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,120494.msg1098403886.html#msg1098403886

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,124487.msg1098436387.html#msg1098436387

[6mm06]

Thanks Quickdtoo.  That was some very detailed information and I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts.  Appreciate that.  So, I suppose a new 444 barrel for my Handi Rifle is on the fast burner right now.  It's a fine cartridge and I think would make a great addition to my gun room.

By the way, can you instruct me on how to post pictures? 

Thanks.

6mm06

[benderboy77]

i'm getting 1.5 inches out of my 444 at 100 yards.

[quickdtoo]

By the way, can you instruct me on how to post pictures? 

The easiest way is to use the "Additional Options" below to the left of the post window, hit the browse button and locate the file you want to attach and click it, the pic will show as a clickable thumbnail beneath your text in the post.

For hosting pics elsewhere, I use the GBO owned site www.myhostedpics.com for storage, it like others, just require uploading the pic, then after it's uploaded, click on the link in the BB Code box and copy it, then paste it in your post window.

Tim

[Wambo]

I'm very interested in your results with the Handi in .444 Marlin.  The accuracy seems great, especially for such a "short range" caliber.  How does it compare with the .45-70?  I like the big bore rifles that can provide this degree of accuracy, and the comparison between the two seems logical-What's your opinion?

Thanks!

Bob

[quickdtoo]

Welcome aboard, Wambo! The .444 is pretty much an equal to 45-70 trapdoor loads and starting levergun loads with the lighter bullets, but the 45-70 leaves it in the dust when you move on up in the levergun level and into Ruger loads specially with heavier bullets. Where the .444 shines is the ability to shoot lighter bullets than the 45-70 and having a slightly flatter trajectory than equal weight .458"s. H&R 45-70s are equally accurate, so I think ya need both!!!

Tim

[Wambo]

Where the .444 shines is the ability to shoot lighter bullets than the 45-70 and having a slightly flatter trajectory than equal weight .458"s. H&R 45-70s are equally accurate, so I think ya need both!!! Grin

Thanks quickdtoo, I was afraid you'd say that! . So many calibers, so little money I'm afraid. But Handis are pretty cheap......hummm.  A dilemma, but which do you think would be more accurate at longer ranges, like 300 yards?

Thanks!

Bob

[quickdtoo]

Here's some data compiled with Sierra Inf software, the 240gr XTP, 300gr NP and 300gr SSP are actual velocities from my 22" barrels, the 300gr XTP velocity comes from the Hornady 6th since I haven't shot it. What the actual downrange performace is, I don't know, but the data will give you an idea of what you might see. If you're shooting factory ammo, the Hornady Leverevolution ammo would be a good one to try in the .444 as it's the only pointed bullet available for the .444 and their use of proprietary powders gives it an advantage.

Tim


Trajectory for Hornady .430 dia. (444) 240 gr. HP/XTP at 2350 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.205   0.205   0.205   0.205   0.205
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1600   1600   1600   1600
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2350.0   2942.5   2.50   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2248.9   2694.8   2.40   -0.2   0.52   0.0   0.032624358
50   2150.3   2463.6   2.29   -0.83   2.11   0.0   0.066730201
75   2054.1   2248.1   2.19   -1.94   3.23   0.0   0.102417150
100   1960.5   2047.9   2.09   -3.55   3.83   0.0   0.139791641
125   1869.6   1862.4   1.99   -5.74   3.87   0.0   0.178967448
150   1781.5   1691.0   1.90   -8.54   3.29   0.0   0.220065294
175   1696.4   1533.4   1.81   -12.03   2.02   0.0   0.263210423
200   1614.7   1389.2   1.72   -16.28   0.0   0.0   0.308529782
225   1536.5   1257.9   1.64   -21.36   -2.86   0.0   0.356150238
250   1462.2   1139.2   1.56   -27.36   -6.63   0.0   0.406193578
275   1392.2   1032.7   1.48   -34.37   -11.43   0.0   0.458769428
300   1326.7   937.8   1.41   -42.51   -17.34   0.0   0.513968504

Trajectory for Hornady .430 dia. (444) 300 gr HP/XTP at 2000 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.245   0.245   0.245   0.245   0.245
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 880   880   880   880
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2000.0   2664.1   2.66   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   1922.8   2462.3   2.56   -0.28   1.13   0.0   0.038246229
50   1847.4   2273.2   2.46   -1.15   3.18   0.0   0.078040456
75   1774.1   2096.3   2.36   -2.65   4.58   0.0   0.119468524
100   1703.0   1931.6   2.27   -4.84   5.3   0.0   0.162618494
125   1634.1   1778.6   2.18   -7.78   5.27   0.0   0.207579340
150   1567.7   1636.9   2.09   -11.54   4.42   0.0   0.254440117
175   1504.0   1506.5   2.00   -16.18   2.69   0.0   0.303288015
200   1443.0   1386.8   1.92   -21.78   0.0   0.0   0.354204584
225   1385.1   1277.7   1.84   -28.43   -3.73   0.0   0.407262794
250   1330.4   1178.8   1.77   -36.21   -8.6   0.0   0.462523267
275   1279.2   1089.8   1.70   -45.21   -14.7   0.0   0.520027937
300   1231.8   1010.6   1.64   -55.55   -22.12   0.0   0.579792291

Trajectory for Custom .458 (45-70) 300gr Nosler PP at 2400 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.199   0.199   0.199   0.199   0.199
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2400   2400   2400   2400
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2400.0   3836.3   3.20   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2294.7   3507.0   3.06   -0.19   0.46   0.0   0.031959364
50   2192.0   3200.0   2.92   -0.8   2.0   0.0   0.065400810
75   2091.8   2914.3   2.79   -1.86   3.09   0.0   0.100426510
100   1994.4   2649.2   2.66   -3.42   3.68   0.0   0.137146460
125   1899.7   2403.7   2.53   -5.52   3.73   0.0   0.175678364
150   1808.0   2177.2   2.41   -8.22   3.18   0.0   0.216147953
175   1719.5   1969.1   2.29   -11.59   1.96   0.0   0.258686904
200   1634.4   1779.1   2.18   -15.7   0.0   0.0   0.303429691
225   1553.0   1606.3   2.07   -20.62   -2.77   0.0   0.350511131
250   1475.6   1450.2   1.97   -26.44   -6.44   0.0   0.400062378
275   1402.7   1310.4   1.87   -33.26   -11.11   0.0   0.452202776
300   1334.6   1186.2   1.78   -41.18   -16.88   0.0   0.507032617

Trajectory for Barnes .458 dia. (.45-70) 300 gr. SSP at 2200 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.291   0.291   0.291   0.291   0.291
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1440   1440   1440   1440
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2200.0   3223.5   2.93   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2131.1   3024.8   2.84   -0.23   0.61   0.0   0.034637880
50   2063.4   2835.7   2.75   -0.94   2.24   0.0   0.070403834
75   1997.0   2656.2   2.66   -2.15   3.36   0.0   0.107350814
100   1931.9   2485.9   2.57   -3.92   3.94   0.0   0.145534344
125   1868.2   2324.5   2.49   -6.26   3.93   0.0   0.185012613
150   1805.9   2172.0   2.41   -9.23   3.3   0.0   0.225846077
175   1745.0   2028.1   2.32   -12.86   2.01   0.0   0.268096738
200   1685.7   1892.6   2.25   -17.21   0.0   0.0   0.311827498
225   1628.1   1765.4   2.17   -22.32   -2.77   0.0   0.357101488
250   1572.2   1646.3   2.09   -28.25   -6.37   0.0   0.403981937
275   1518.2   1535.1   2.02   -35.06   -10.84   0.0   0.452530719
300   1466.1   1431.6   1.95   -42.82   -16.25   0.0   0.502806478

[Wambo]

Wow!  Great info, I really appreciate it Tim!

[quickdtoo]

Where the .444 shines is the ability to shoot lighter bullets than the 45-70 and having a slightly flatter trajectory than equal weight .458"s. H&R 45-70s ....

I should have included "equal velocity" in that statement!!

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Here's another light bullet for the .444, Barnes lists the 200gr XPB as 2333fps from a 15" barrel, it being a pistol bullet, but some of the fellas at Marlin Owners are shooting it and the 225gr in their leverguns, 2400fps would be a conservative estimate for the 200gr, 2300fps for the 225gr IMO, but it may not shoot well being .429" instead of the usual .430". Notice the energy level drops below the accepted 1000ft/lbs generally accepted for deer at just past 200yds, same for the .4295" Sierra 210gr.

Tim


Trajectory for Custom .429 200gr Barnes XPB (444) at 2400 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.172   0.172   0.172   0.172   0.172
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2300   2300   2300   2300
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2400.0   2557.5   2.13   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2278.4   2304.9   2.02   -0.2   0.55   0.0   0.032073524
50   2160.2   2072.1   1.92   -0.81   2.18   0.0   0.065879945
75   2045.6   1858.0   1.82   -1.89   3.34   0.0   0.101558577
100   1934.6   1661.8   1.72   -3.49   3.99   0.0   0.139260625
125   1827.5   1482.9   1.62   -5.67   4.05   0.0   0.179149638
150   1724.5   1320.5   1.53   -8.5   3.46   0.0   0.221399811
175   1626.2   1174.1   1.44   -12.06   2.14   0.0   0.266190721
200   1532.8   1043.2   1.36   -16.45   0.0   0.0   0.313702512
225   1445.0   927.1   1.28   -21.76   -3.07   0.0   0.364108245
250   1363.2   825.2   1.21   -28.11   -7.18   0.0   0.417560048
275   1288.3   737.0   1.14   -35.63   -12.45   0.0   0.474172938
300   1221.0   661.9   1.08   -44.46   -19.04   0.0   0.533999783

Trajectory for Custom .429 225gr Barnes XPB (444) at 2300 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.195   0.195   0.195   0.195   0.195
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2300   2300   2300   2300
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2300.0   2642.4   2.30   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2195.1   2406.8   2.19   -0.21   0.64   0.0   0.033379279
50   2092.8   2187.8   2.09   -0.87   2.32   0.0   0.068372026
75   1993.4   1984.8   1.99   -2.03   3.51   0.0   0.105092638
100   1896.8   1797.3   1.90   -3.74   4.15   0.0   0.143663702
125   1803.4   1624.5   1.80   -6.05   4.19   0.0   0.184216302
150   1713.2   1466.1   1.71   -9.03   3.56   0.0   0.226887742
175   1626.7   1321.8   1.63   -12.75   2.19   0.0   0.271818115
200   1544.0   1190.8   1.54   -17.29   0.0   0.0   0.319147733
225   1465.6   1073.0   1.46   -22.74   -3.1   0.0   0.369012252
250   1391.9   967.7   1.39   -29.21   -7.22   0.0   0.421533951
275   1323.2   874.6   1.32   -36.79   -12.46   0.0   0.476813413
300   1260.1   793.2   1.26   -45.62   -18.94   0.0   0.534915471


Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .4295 dia. (44 cal) 210 gr. JHC at 2400 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.16   0.175   0.17   0.17   0.17
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1200   900   900   900
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2400.0   2685.4   2.24   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2269.4   2401.1   2.12   -0.2   0.6   0.0   0.032136967
50   2142.8   2140.7   2.00   -0.81   2.28   0.0   0.066147727
75   2020.3   1902.9   1.88   -1.91   3.49   0.0   0.102194848
100   1902.1   1686.7   1.77   -3.53   4.16   0.0   0.140455693
125   1788.4   1491.1   1.67   -5.76   4.24   0.0   0.181122860
150   1679.7   1315.3   1.57   -8.66   3.63   0.0   0.224400396
175   1576.5   1158.7   1.47   -12.34   2.25   0.0   0.270496458
200   1479.4   1020.3   1.38   -16.89   0.0   0.0   0.319616837
225   1389.1   899.6   1.30   -22.43   -3.25   0.0   0.371949508
250   1306.4   795.6   1.22   -29.11   -7.62   0.0   0.427645125
275   1232.2   707.8   1.15   -37.05   -13.27   0.0   0.486788285
300   1170.1   638.3   1.09   -46.43   -20.34   0.0   0.549321975

[quickdtoo]

Another bullet I have, but yet to shoot is the Beartooth 250gr LFNGC, it would be considerably tougher than the 240gr XTP.

Tim

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/details.php?id=48

[Wambo]

Hummm.  It looks like the .444 does a bit better with the medium sized bullets for energy down the road than the lighter loads.  I assume the bullet profile may be better with the 240-250gr bullets for the mass, helping it somewhat? How does the accuracy compare at 100 and 200 yrds with the lighter bullets? 

I can see you're happy with the .444!  I really like the potential accuracy of the big round, even out of the box.  I think I'm leaning towards the .444 over the .45-70, but they both look like a lot of fun.

Great info Tim! Thanks!

Bob

[bishopgrandpa]

My 444 is a pleasant surprise to me . It loves the 270 Gold Dot but not so much the Hornady 265. Not to offend my 4 45-70's but the 444 is this years deer rifle and the 450 my bear gun. Use a 400 gr. Speer with the 450. The 444 is good for 1 to 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds.