Author Topic: Scent lock getting sued!  (Read 2630 times)

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Offline JJHACK

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Scent lock getting sued!
« on: September 30, 2007, 05:43:45 AM »
We had a long thread here about a year ago or so.
 
It was regarding the benifits of this Scent lock garbage. I posted a whole lot of chemical data and the background of where I found this information. Some guys were still buying into it saying it works great, others felt as I do that it's a joke.
 
Now a group of hunters in Minnesota have filed a class action suit against he company for falsely making sales claims that lured in 1000's of people to buy a product they know does not and cannot work.
 
Remember you heard this here first!
 
http://www.startribune.com/outdoors/story/1438361.html
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007, 05:51:50 AM »
  When it first came out we tried it out, some local deputies got a suit from a local pro shop and had a guy clean up real well put one on and tried tracking him with the K9. the dog tracked with no problem. It isn't a big seller with the people around here that know about that test. Frankly I'm surprized there wasn't an out of court hush hush settlment on this case. Because I'm thinking in open court they will lose.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline K.K

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 11:22:16 AM »
Although I do use Scent lock and other scent-containing (not eliminating, that's impossible) products, I wonder how much better off everyone would be if we simply understood that nothing can totally eliminate our scent!  I mean, if an animal is downwind of you for any length of time, you will be busted. This is certainly true for North American game, and probably more so for the African animals.  I mean, have you ever seen the nose on a buff?  Or how about an elephant? 

Hunt with the wind in your face, and stalk well, and you should be able to get into position for a shot. I think that this should be common knowledge, but we hunters like our gadgets as much as golfers, fisherman, or the next guys.

Offline jro45

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 05:54:03 AM »
I've used it bear hunting and it worked real good, but I haven't used it on African game I just shoot them from farther  away.

Offline slave

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2007, 03:57:55 AM »
If you have ever seen a "carbon" military chemical warfare suite you would know why Sent-Loc is not effective. I have used surplus chemical suites and found them to be reasonable effective on deer. You also will look like you just fleft a coal mine when you take it off.
I would like to see how one would work in that K-9 test. Controlling ground sent can be important to a stand hunter. But for most hunting purposes they are much to bulky, heavy and hot to be effectively used. And no way could one filter his emitted respiration. Down wind was and still is the only answer.
keep your powder dry !!!

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 05:12:08 AM »
 JJHACK, you called it right, it is garbage. I never bought into it.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 09:30:52 AM »
I've used it bear hunting and it worked real good,,,

Other than you may have killed a bear while wearing it, how do you know it worked? How would you account for all the animals killed prior to scent blockers?

I find that in all sports there are people that will buy into anything they believes gives them some perceived edge. :-\
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline markc

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2007, 05:24:49 AM »
Doesn't it make better sense to be relatively clean body and clothing, and watch the wind direction, than to spend alot of money on special clothing?  Even their commercials don't make sense to me.  Even if it worked and you covered your entire body, you still have to breathe.   Although I have now seen advertised some kind of cough drops that make your breath smell like a doe in heat.  Mmmmm yummy!

markc

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2007, 09:40:19 AM »
come on guys , ya got the old school and ya got the high tech new school !
some pick and choose between the two !
just keep in mind the old school way came from hunters that only ate when they did it right !
my son got the deodorant that was scent eliminating ( ani't that what they all should do ? ) he put it on and ended up with black arm pits !
hint , if ya hunt pines rub pine needles on your clothes , hunt an apple orchard rub old apples on ya , you get the picture !
then stay up wind cause the deer will wonder where the rank apples came from if ya don't !
the other thing to do is work up a sweat before filling the bait pile and they will get used to ya and be waiting .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2007, 05:56:33 PM »
Actually when I go hunting I just put on a pair of pants, a shirt, my boots and go, I'm not convinced the animals care what you smell like. Predators don't wear scent block and do alright. I don't have to get as close as a predator either.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline drdougrx

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2007, 06:38:32 AM »
I think of Scent Lock like I do camo (which I do wear).  Over rated in my opinion, but that's me and if you like it and feel it gives you the edge...go for it.
If you like, please enjoy some of my hunt pics at:

http://public.fotki.com/DrDougRx

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2007, 03:34:55 AM »
Don , do you smell many predators ? they really stink ! my hunting dogs seem to roll in all forms of animal waste and on dead critters to cover their scent !
My  oldest son called last week and said the deer winded him , he hunts where deer see people during deer season , so i told him to hunt around my house since deer people contact was a day to day thing and he tried it and couldn't believe how the deer let ya get close . So a cover scent is my choice when hunting remote areas , i believe the deer avoid what has not been proved safe , its like a tractor they see mine and let it get close but take the same path with a truck and they are gone .
fox pee scent works as do many of the deer scents along with pine scent
alot of guys get to a stand and clear a spot , this opens alot of new smells to the area and i feel it alarms the deer also .
i would feel to be scent free a outfit would have to be air tite !
keep in mind also if a smell and action can be associated by a deer he may avoid it also !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Ramhunter

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2007, 04:31:40 AM »
One observation on the effectiveness of cover scents leads me to strongly doubt their utility.  A few years ago in the Yukon on a sheep hunt, I mentioned cover scents to my guide who had never heard of them.  He laughed and related a story of a hunter he had guided on a grizzly hunt.  They were observing a grizzly from a distance of about 200 yards with the wind in their face.  The bear was feeding on an old rotting moose gut pile that was putrid and about two weeks old.  Suddenly the wind shifted and they felt it on the back of their neck.  Instantly the bear jerked his head up with rotting entrails hanging from his mouth, turned and ran like hell!

That bear was able to detect human odor from 200 yards away with a snoot full of one of the strongest "cover scents" I could imagine.  I suspect that when deer smell someone with cover scents he smells the stench of a human mixed in with the odor of fox urine, or dirt or whatever.  I also read a recent article by Chuck Adams who has a lot of experience with scents.  He also characterized the theory behind cover scents as "baloney".  Adams did feel, however, that attractant scents did appear to work on occasion.

Offline JJHACK

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2007, 01:54:52 PM »
I think we need to show the game we hunt a bit more respect. Nothing you can spray, rub, or wash your clothing in will make a tiny bit of difference at hiding our Human scent.
recently  on a cable channel there was a program about smuggling money in and out of the USA. The films were made in Miami and New York airports with a couple clips in Dallas and LA.

The whole documentary was very well done and professional. However I did not see the first 10 minutes or so, I was late to the show.

So what story did it tell? Well these dogs did not sniff dope, bombs, guns, or meat. The Customs guys said if you want to find a criminal all you need to do is follow the money! These dogs were trained to smell American Money! They work in the aircraft jet way sniffing the passengers as they were boarding the plane. They sniff here and there as the people walk by and follow the ones who have too much cash.

Most of the video had people open a carry on bag and they had plenty of cash in side. No big impressive feat from what I have seen before...... By the way the limit of unclaimed cash you can have leaving or coming into the USA is 10,000 US dollars. That much money in 100 dollar bills is about 1/4" thick and easily fits into a legal size envelope.

Several of the people had cash in one gallon zip lock bags, inside a hard sided brief cases. Many had the money wrapped in plastic cling sandwich wrap. One guy had it inside his lead lined film bag. That one had the Customs guys howling with laughter, as if the lead lined bag was a scent deterrent!

Another guy had a big stack of cash in his front pocket and made a rude comment about the dog violating him. However the big one that was really impressive to me was the guy with the Carbon lined Camo jacket in his carry on with the money (50,000 bucks) contained inside the folded up jacket. That was inside a soft sided zip shut wheeled carry on case.

Finally they had the dog on a few practice runs with money that had been sprayed with diesel fuel and put in a plastic bag and then placed inside a suitcase that was then placed in a stack of about 30 passenger suitcases. The dog ran past all of them and on his second loop around he stopped at the case and sat down. He did not indicate which suit case it was in the stack but sat right in front of the correct one. According to the Customs guys and the airport security that's why you cannot lock your luggage any longer in checked baggage. The customs guys just pulled the 4 close to where he sat and separated them. Then the dog ran them again sitting right in front of the correct one. If he would have been unable to identify one in particular they would have opened and searched all 4.

The really interesting thing this was how these Customs guys take dogs from the pound and train them. None were pure bred special breeds. Everyone was a mutant dog of mixed breed. The customs guys were actually quite boastful about the dogs they use, claiming nothing is going to get by his dogs nose. They had lots of stories about people hiding money that the dogs found.

One was very interesting. A black girl was boarding a flight for Jamaica. She had a wheeled carry on and the dog just locked on her and the guys knew they had a smuggler by the dogs reaction. She said she had only a few hundred dollars and showed them. They could not find the money and called a female officer to pat her down. Still no money. They began questioning her and it turned out she was there after leaving her job as a bank employee where she had to count money for the last several hours while wearing the same clothes she had on at the airport. The dog smelled the residue of money on her clothing, skin and hair. That's pretty impressive!

Give game the respect it's due and stay down wind. You cannot fool an animals nose with anything currently produced on this planet!


How does one hide their breath? Are we certain that all this is well enough understood that the Hype and fluff regarding these products is real or would these animals have reacted the same anyway?

I can't even count all the game I have been within a few feet of. Yet it had every chance to smell me but stood staring and waiting for movement. So long as I remained still and made no eye contact they eventually went about their business and slowly walked away or began eating again.

If I were wearing a Carbon suit during those events I would have believed the suit was the reason, yet those animals were there while I stood without camo and with no special treatment to my clothing.

By the same token I have had countless animals bolt away the very instant they scented me. I have seen my dog retrieve a freshly killed pheasant and on her way back to me go on point on another live bird. Now hold on a minute, there is a dead bird of the same species right under her nose being held in her mouth. How is that not a "cover scent" she still smells another different bird and can tell the difference between it and the one in her mouth!

The Cop, or maybe I should call them the "hosts" at a dope dog exhibition I attended several years ago explained it like this. If you have a pizza delivered to your house within a few minutes anyone (human) entering the house will smell "pizza". However when a dog enters the house he smells the cheese, the sauce, the dough, the meat, the peppers, the salt, the perfume in the soap the lady who put the toppings on used when she washed her hands, the cigar the delivery guy was smoking, and the air freshener that was in his car etc. etc.

The dog does not smell one thing but has the incredible ability to identify each smell for its own value, and in only parts per billion amounts.

I once had a bear bait that was almost the size of a VW bug. It was a big pile of rotting meat I used for a population study I was doing for the WA. dept of F&G. and the WA Forest protection Association. I used road kills and all the trappers beaver carcasses I could collect. You could smell this from 1/2 mile away with the wind just right. You could actually hear it from 20 yards away from all the maggots squirming around on it and the bugs buzzing round it.

One day I was lucky and got a 5 gallon pail full of the old fried food from the local gas and go. Burritos, tacos, jojo's, egg rolls, chicken and the rest of that deep fried heart stopping crap.

I took the bucket and a shovel into the site with me and lifted a huge rotting beaver carcass that was more grey slime then an actual remaining carcass. I dumped the fried contents into the hole and let the carcass slide or "ooze" back over it. About an hour later while I was in my elevated hide the first bear showed up. He walked in nervous and circled the pile. While he was only a foot from the massive stack of squishing ooze and maggots he stood on his hind legs and woofed. Then he dropped down and bolted away. About a minute later a big male pitched up at the site. If this was not the ultimate, although unusable cover scent then I don't know what is. It was however worthless as witnessed by the bear detecting another bear 50 yards away or more when only a foot from this pile of obnoxious goo. ( note to self: cover scent is a joke)

The Big bear walked around the pile and instantly pulled the grey slimy beaver off the pile of "goodies". He ate all of what was there, I think and then he left. Within a few minutes another bear came and also went to the exact spot. He ate and quickly departed as another bear came and he too went to the same place to eat. He pawed around and dug a big hole in the pile of slime, no deal for him. Nothing left, but he could smell the fresh deep fried food had touched the grey slime and he knew it was there someplace.

If you think for a second that cover scent works think again! I'm not confusing attracting scents with cover scent. Don't believe that putting some "cover" scent on your camo outfit, boots, or the tree stand you're in will hide your human scent. Read this again if you don't understand why.

All this can be said equally for the scent suits. It only takes a tiny few particles per billion for a deer, bear, or most any other game to detect you from the natural surroundings. I contend that if you were close to an animal with this special suit, you would also have been without it! The amount of scent coming from your mouth alone is more then enough to alert any game with a nose!

I think PT Barnum said it best, that quote still works today for most hunters with a fresh Cabelas catalog and a Visa Card!

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Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2007, 06:18:21 AM »
That was great! 
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2007, 08:17:29 AM »
jjhack, sort of like the colors of fishing lures ? made for the fisherman not the fish ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline corbanzo

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2008, 09:46:26 AM »
Really?  Have most people still never heard the word marketing??

I think I'm gonna go and sue TC over the 308TC, cause it in fact does not match a 30-06, cause a 30-06 can still be loaded hotter than the .308 TC.  Those liars!

I'm gonna go and sue the late night TV adds that claim their fillet knife is very flexible and never ever loses its edge.  Cause it's made out of metal, which is in fact, not impenatrable, those lying bastards.

I'm sorry to say, but you have to be an IDIOT to actually believe that something will totally cover your scent.  You know how to totally covere your scent?  Get inside a zip lock bag.  Yes, you would die, you know why?  No gaseous transfers.  Your body and your lungs have to breath, and therefor there has to be some transfer.  This means that at all times, something is moving out of your clothing.  Scent lok is meant to MASK the smell, so that it can't be smelt at shooting ranges.  If you are right next to a deer, he is gonna smell you, even if you are in a plastic bag, he will smell the bag.

People need to start using COMMON SENSE.

I have a thousand of dollars of camo too.  I have two things that are scent lok, a hat/facemask, and gloves.  I didn't even buy them because they were scent lok, I bought them because they were a good style at a good price. 

These superficial lawsuits lately are PISSING ME OFF.

THINK before you buy.   READ testimonials, don't listen to the company.  If you are taken in by a companies marketing BS, then you deserve to lose your money.  If you think it's crap, DON'T BUY IT.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Scent lock getting sued!
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2008, 09:52:19 AM »
Gee !
all i wanted to do was win the court room lottery and retire !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !