95 grain Ballistic tips in 243 on deer

[rickt300]

Anyone use this bullet pushed to around 3000 fps on deer?

[Davemuzz]

Rick,

I'd like to hear any results on this one myself. I just loaded up and tested (with MOA results)...and then loaded a batch for the coming rifle season of 95 grain Nosler's over the max amount of H-414. I havn't run 'em over the crony, but the load says it's suppose to be over 3000 fps. They are very accurate and my plan is to use 'em on doe...probably no larger than 125lb.

Dave.

[Land_Owner]

My hunting partner uses a 243 with a slightly higher weight bullet (110 gr.).  I am not saying the 95 grain'er won't get it done, I personally would not want to be in front of that little pill when it is traveling at that rate of speed.  Nosler makes a great bullet.  If the bullet stays intact, and delivers its energy in passing through the deer, there is really no question regarding its lethality.  Have you tried any wet newspaper or water jug tests?  Does the bullet mushroom and penetrate?  Ever find one that has passed through something?  I expect your results will be positive when shooting deer in the neck or head.  Your accuracy results deem it appropriate for such shots from a steady rest.  If you have doe that are in general substantially over 125 pounds, I applaud your landscape's "carrying capacity" and would like to hunt with you at your place for nothing but doe.  That is some good eating (big) venison. 

[SingleShotShorty]

I shoot either the Nosler 95 grain Ballistic Tip or Nolser 100 grain partitions in my 243 and they both work very well, the BT is a bit more accurate and the partition has better penetration.

[Swampman]

I've found the Nosler BT to work pretty much like FMJ ammo.  As far as I could tell they punched right through with no expansion or hydrostatic shock.  I'll stick with Remington Core-Lokts.

[Graybeard]

You keep saying that Swampman but it makes no sense. The BT is generally considered to be TOO SOFT not too hard. They tend to blow up not punch thru like a FMJ. I really wish I had first hand info on what it was you experienced but unless the range was such that velocity had dropped to 1500 fps or less I can assure you a BT expanded and did not punch thru like a FMJ.

Can you expand on this incident? What are you using as a criteria in saying no expansion took place? What caliber and weight?

[Swampman]

Federal Premium 140 grain Nosler BT in a 7mm-08 Remington Model 7 on a 125lb PA whitetail buck

Shot one at 125 yards broke the deer down in the front end.
Shot 2 at 35 yards through the lungs, no visible effect.
Shots 3 & 4 low through the chest at less than 10 feet with no visible effect.

After 10 minutes of watching the deer, I shot it in the brain and it died after about 10 seconds of making a very pitiful noise.

I field dressed the deer and found very neat small caliber round entrance and exit wounds and no tissue damage to speak of.

This is as exact as I can remember the event and I have no reason to make the story up.  Every time I relate this story folks call me a liar.  I don't really care.  I sold the rifle and washed my hands of the cartridge and the ammo forever.

[John R.]

So that experience made the 7mm/08 a bad cartridge? I have never heard that before with a Bal. Tip. I don't like them for hunting because they tend to shed their jackets at 3000 fps or more, but they are accurate.

[Davemuzz]

I'm not going to call Swampman a liar as the facts of his story could certainly be as he stated and I have no reason to doubt his word.

That being stated I also find it difficult to believe that a Nosler ballistic tip bullet would perform in that manner. I often wonder if factory loads are always what they say they are. I certainly could find it credible (not that it's not credible now if the BT's are bad) if the bullet were a Partition, but a BT into a deer at that close of a range should just leave a BIG hole on the exit.

But....bad ammo happens. Bad bullets can be made. Hey, it happens.

Dave.

[rickt300]

Did my load workup in my 6MM Remington for this bullet today. I started 1 grain under my standard load of 45.0 grain of AA4350 and the 100 gr. corelokt and had to back down to 43.0 grains to get primers I liked the looks of.  Range day tomorrow.

[beemanbeme]

When you folks work up a hunting load using a new bullet do you do any evaluation other than accuracy?  Especially a fairly new on the market bullet?  Not to insinuate that the bullet companies would lie about their products and their performances but I like to see some first hand information on what a bullet is gonna do.

[rickt300]

Well there's a dirt bank behind my 50 yard shooting range that I shoot bullets into and then dig them up. You can compare a bullets performance against other bullets as to hole width and depth but don't really think there is anything better than live game testing. No range today, it rained like crazy.

[beemanbeme]

I don't shoot bullets into animals to test them but I think you can get valuable comparative info from shooting into just about any medium if you use a bullet with a know track record on game to compare the test bullet against. 

[Davemuzz]

If a well known bullet has a proven track record, there's a good reason why. So for me to shoot that bullet into a medium to re-check the expansion qualities of it, seems a bit redundant.

Dave

[drdougrx]

Here's my story from my post in the exotics thread:

I used the 243 on the fallow which dressed at 158lbs (a real butterball).  A 95gr NosBT / 43.5gr H414 at 3040fps.  Wouldn't do it again I don't think.  The bullet performed well.  First shot broke the shoulders at about 50yds.  Took a second shot at about the same distance from above (we were on a hill side and the deer was below us).  Interestingly enough...the 2nd bullet entered where the shoulder and the neck meets and exited just behind the sternum.  A real sharp angle was that shot.  The 3rd shot was a finisher.  Postmortem shows the 1st shot broke both shoulders and the deer ambled away, didn't run.  The second shot (a top to bottom shot) deflated the lungs and the 3rd took out the heart (actually, it came out in three pieces).  The bullet performed well, but, I'd like more shock that I think a larger diameter bullet would give. 

I just think a heavier bullet with more diameter would work better that's all.  BTW, I've shot three fallow with this load as well as a couple of exotics sheep and goats.  I can't say I'm all that convinced that I'd use it again on animals over 100 or 125lbs.  I originally got it as a javalina gun and wanted to test it on other animals.  Power to ya if you are comfortable with it...I kinda think of it like I do about using a 270 on elk.  It will do the job, but, if you can't elk hunt very often and you have only a hunt once in while for a bull, do you really want to use a 270??

Just the way I think...take it with a grain of salt.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     I have not heard any complaints from Steven, my buddy from St Louis who uses the 95 Grain BT in his .243 AI. He has used this for several years now and seems to get his deer with it.

[Swampman]

So that experience made the 7mm/08 a bad cartridge? I have never heard that before with a Bal. Tip. I don't like them for hunting because they tend to shed their jackets at 3000 fps or more, but they are accurate.

I wouldn't use it.

[rickt300]

It sure seems the bullet really performed well on that fallow deer to me. Broke both shoulders, gave deep penetration on the second shot. I'll bet there was plenty of destruction also. I consider this a fine recommendation. As to "shock" some animals just don't know when to quit, nervousness or adrenaline it's hard to say but you will run into this no matter what your shooting.

[Davemuzz]

From the Hodgdon website....the 7-08 doesn't get to 3,000fps unless your shooting a 100 grain bullet. And I don't know anyone who shoots a 100 grain bullet at deer from a 7-08. And even with a 100 grain bullet it's just barely over 3,000 fps.

And again, from Hodgdon, none of the 243 loads listed for the 243 95 grain Nosler bullet exceed 3,000 fps.

My guess is if your shooting the bullet at more than 3,100 fps, then you are exceeding what the bullet is capable of doing.

Dave

[JKump]

2 years ago I hunted with the 243.  I was using Winchester 95 grain Ballistic tips.  I shot a Doe at around 35 yards.  The bullet entered just behind the shoulder.  The deer jumped when hit ran for about 15 yards and stood there, then ran off.  I followed the blood trail for about 75 yards (she dropped just over the creek).  When checking the deer the bullet entered just behind the shoulder.  On the other side, a larged hole for an exit with bit of the lung hanging out.   Later that day, while hunting fields I shot a spike with Hornady 100 grain lite mags.  The spike was shot at 75 yards, dropped right there.  Just before dark, I shot another Doe at 130 yards, she ran off into the woods.  After tracking into the late night could not find this deer.  I switched to a 308 the next day, just to get to use the heavy bullets choice.

[Davemuzz]

.308 stories:3 years ago I shot a doe (nice older one) at 40 yards with my 308. 150 grain Hornady V-max bullet. Direct hit in the heart. She ran 40 yards and dropped over. Upon field dressing she had no discernible heart. It was more like pudding.  My very first buck every was shot with a 308 using Winchester ammo and 150 grain bullet. (Don't ask me the type....this was centuries ago) Lung shot....both lungs as the 4pt half rack was at 60 yards. He ran a bit over 100 yards and fell. Still took a head shot to finish him.

My point is not every deer will drop in their tracks when hit with a 30 caliber bullet, even when the shot is properly placed.

Dave

[Casull]

It sure seems the bullet really performed well on that fallow deer to me. Broke both shoulders, gave deep penetration on the second shot. I'll bet there was plenty of destruction also. I consider this a fine recommendation. As to "shock" some animals just don't know when to quit, nervousness or adrenaline it's hard to say but you will run into this no matter what your shooting.

Rick has a very good point here.  Two years ago I shot a medium size doe with my .454 (300 grain hardcast at about 1750 fps - per manual, not chrono).  First shot at 40 yards broke onside shoulder and double lunged her.  Ran about 30 yards and bedded down.  Second shot took out the liver.  Deer was still trying to stand.  Third shot in neck knocked her down, but making awful noises.  Fourth shot in neck finally sealed the deal.  Some deer just don't know they are dead.  Now, last year took a similar size doe at about 70 yards with same gun and load.  One shot broke both shoulders and destroyed lungs.  Deer leapt about twenty feet (on rear legs alone) and died before hitting the ground (near as I could tell watching from shooting position).  Obviously, none of the bullets were recovered.  Go figure.

[SingleShotShorty]

What I have seen in shooting the 95 grain Ballistic Tips is that the whole insides are like jello and with the partition I get a small entry and a large exit hole

[drdougrx]

I just think a heavier bullet would have resulted in a more decisive knockdown.  Yes...the innards were a mess.  BUT,,,,had I been in a more dense environment rather than  relatively open hill side, there was a greater possibility for a loss.  It'd just me....

[rickt300]

I used a 30-30 for a while and have to say the 243/6MM class cartridges put deer on the ground quicker. They provided damage far greater than the old 30-30. This said about half the deer I shoot drop in sight and the other half get less than 50 yards, with the rare one that goes 100 yards. Doesn't matter what I shoot unless I am using too tough a bullet. Then they all run a bit.