35 rem versus 358 winchester same or different enough...?

[kennisondan]

TRYING TO COMPARE  in fifteen inch tc pistol :
35 rem
versus
358 mag
I do handload but will want to compare factory and handloads too
for whitetailed deer,
possible hogs. I have the 35 already n my contender and considering the 358 in the encore...
if they are too alike I will order a 308 fifiteen incher for the encore.

thanks
dk

[tiggere]

here's how I always like to compare ballistics of different calibers...open up two windows and look at the side by side...granted they are out of a 24"+ barrel but velocity's and energy's should drop consistently between the two as you shorten the barrel...ballistics wise the 358 Winchester dominates the 35 Remington...and I don't think I would mind having one myself in a 15" barrel...has a higher BC, more velocity, more  ftlbs of energy...if using it for a hunting application I would choose the 358 Winchester...for lighter recoil the 35 rem would probably win that battle...


Edited to add...
LOL...did a little search...

Rating: 5 Stars
Date Posted: 8/31/2007
Review:
This is the 1st pistol I've owned in 358 Winchester. On the TC Encore frame with TC rubber grip and forearm and the 180 grain Hornady SSPS bullet at 2,400 fps it produces 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. Recoil is painful! The barrel is off to be Magna-ported.

[Ken ONeill]

Depending upon the bullet, expect at least 200-300 fps more from the .358 Win. in a 15" Encore vs. the .35 Rem. in a 14" Contender. The .35 Rem. will easily kill any hog that ever lived. I'd recommend you consider the .308 Win. in that Encore, for greater versatility. It can truly perform as a longer range handgun.

[kennisondan]

thks tiggere & ken :  I appreciate the comments.  I was afraid the 358 would have a lot of bump to it as well as fall a bit short of the 308 possibilities...I also have a couple thousand 308 rounds in match and hunting configuration that sway me that way.. considered the 7 30 waters and the 7mm -08 and the 270, but first : I don't have another gun in those rounds; second : the 308 can do more things in more situations, and third : I just like 30 caliber bullets in long guns, though  I have killed a lot of deer with smaller diameter bullets from 243 through 277 and 284. they all work, it is just the 308 does what I liked about the old '06 :  DRT  every time with the exception of one time, ever for me...and that was a less than good shot.. still got the buck though after a little tracking job and a finisher at about ten yards for safety and kindness.

I am going to order a 308 pistol barrel post haste and am strongly considering a 24 inch 308 barrel for configuring it in rifle format... I am not that recoil sensitive, and will wait until the torn tendon in my elbow heals before I get too crazy; but assuming I am OK with full house 44s and hot heavy 45s and shoot 3" 410 in a 10 inch octogan bbl contender with fair regularity, is the 308 in 15 in. tc barrel going to need a porting job.. I keep reading that it is about comparable to a full house 44 in a revolver, and if so I am fine... but would welcome any input from this forum membership..
do you think I can find one used or should I just bite the bullet and order the puppies out from midway or some other provider ... found them for 244 and 254 in blue for pistol and rifle on Mway.
thanks as always :
dk

[tiggere]

you might save a little money by looking around and find one used...but not that much I don't think...if it was a custom barrel then yes I would say look around...but we are only talking 30/50 dollars...and it will be there in a couple days...brand spankin' new and ready to go...

I wouldn't count out the 7mm-08 though...if you reload 308 anyhow it might be something a bit different and will get you on the "smaller" end of the 30 caliber range...not to mention that ammo for it is available from alot of different companies so you can possibly get lucky and find factory ammo that will shoot extremely well in it without the need to reload for it...recoil should be fairly mild (will let you know for sure this weekend) also...

Here's you a pick of a Pro Hunter with the 15" 7mm-8 (right) compared to a 375 JDJ (left)...I can assure you that the 375 JDJ is going to be a handful just by looking at it...I'll also give a report on that one later this weekend...

[Hopalong7]

Comparing the .35REM and .358Win to me would be the same as comparing a 30-30Win to the .308.  GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

[swampthing]

.35rem is one of those efficient rounds that doesn't need a whole lot of barrel, or powder for that matter, to get 2000fps w/200g bullets. The .358win is also efficient, but in a handgun? better hold on tight.

[Lone Star]

Another viiewpoint:  if the OP handloads - which I assume he does - then the .358 offers added versatility over the .35.  I have always owned at least one .35 Remington T/C over the last 25 years and love the cartridge, but there have been times when a bit more power would have been nice.  The .358 can be loaded to .35 Rem ballistics and work great with heavy - but not excessive - recoil.  Then if he needs to hunt larger game or shoot at longer ranges the .358 can be loaded up.  With the right bullets it is not far behind the .308 in field performance out to 250 yards.

OTOH if the OP likes the .308, then he has the same level of versatility - .30-30, .300 Savage or .308 ballistics at the tip of the powder measure.  In this age of "the more power the better" mentality, it is still no sin to use reduced loads to achieve a goal.


.

[Graybeard]

The best "more than .35 Remington" chambering for the TCs is the .358 JDJ. It has a case capacity between that of the .358 Win. and .35 Whelen and a RIM which is really nice in TCs. From a 14" Contender you can easily get 2300 fps with 225s and from an Encore you should be able to get that or better even with 250s or closer to 2500 fps with the 225s as you are not limited to the same pressure levels in the Encore with it that you are in the Contender.

But if you want less recoil you can easily drop it down to .35 Remington levels as well.

[Ken ONeill]

kennisondan,
In an attempt to answer your question on whether or not to port / compensate a .308 Barrel, I will say that I've owned XP-100, Savage Striker, and Encore .308 handguns, and none have been ported. I also own an un-ported .309 JDJ Contender, which is a .308 performance twin. The recoil on these is robust, but I've never wanted to port them.
You and others have mentioned the 7mm-08, which is also an excellent cartridge. In the real world, it's another performance twin of the .308 Win. However,if you ever need to buy factory ammo because yours was lost in transit, you can find the .308 Win. anywhere in the world. I've used it on 3 continents, and my oldest daughter has used hers extensively in Africa on a couple of safaris. Mark Hampton has traveled the world using .308 handguns made by a number of different manufacturers, and the variety of his handgun hunting is unmatched.
Finally, I'll support Graybeard's comments on the .358 JDJ. If a person has to have a 35 cal in a single shot handgun, this is the optimum to have, in my opinion. When it comes to Contenders, I prefer rimmed cases, and as is the case with the .358 JDJ, J.D.'s cartridges based on the .444, .225, and 8.15x46R, are the best out there.

[tiggere]

OK...finally got out and shot both today...as I figured the 7mm-08 does not require porting...fun little caliber to shoot...kinda "sharp" in recoil but I don't think it has as much as my Super-black Hawk in 44. mag...now...that damn 375 JDJ is a whole nother story...after about 7 rounds of that my hand hurt...its definitely got some thump to it and will be sent off for a muzzle brake after I decide which I want...so there you have it...and one thing to also keep in mind...I'm a 180 lbs and DO NOT like recoil at all...so if I think its manageable anyone can handle it...

[kennisondan]

Glad to get the responses, folks... the versatility is always a great point.. availability off the shelf in a problem situation is a valid point... knowing Ken did not ever feel the need to port several choices of 308 is very telling...That point about the rim is very astute, I was wondering why JdJones chose those base cartridges, and it is for case capacity and rims... cool !.... ..
I can reload, but for this year, I am deep into reloading pistols .. several of them... and playing with that is taking up some shooting and hunting time; so I want to be able to buy off the shelf for now.. I will keep the JDJs in mind for when I want something different that will go further up the power scale as well as down the power scale... but I shied away from them this round due to some of them being a bit obscure brass and obviously being not that easy to find and possibly getting expensive when supply and demand kicks in on these... I also wonder if it is a problem with those cartidges growing longer wearing out faster, just being a bit problematic in general..
So I am still sold on the 308, but have not ordered it yet... the report and opionions on the 7 mm 08 are interesting enough to get my attention, since there are some factiry offerings..
now I will post the question : differences between the 308 and 7mm -08
dk

[tiggere]

the 7mm-08 is a little flatter...little faster...with less energy (obviously .30 vs. 7mm)...but it allows you more options in bullets so you can tailor it to suit your needs...I don't reload and to be able to get factory ammo is very important...BTW Remington also has a factory 120 grain load available...gonna go get a couple boxes from BPS tomorrow to play with as they are "seasonal"...