Range report with my Savage Smokeless.

[Redhawk1]

Well I did some heavy shooting today with my new Savage Smokeless.

I tried 4 different bullets and a bunch of different loads. I started with Hornady 250 gr. SST’s. I
tried 38 to 42 gr. Of SR 4759. I did not get the groups I had hoped for. I could not get better than
3 inches at 100 yards. Also groups were not consistent. I then tried the T/C bonded 250 gr. Shock
wave bullets with the black sabot’s and had worse groups. Anywhere from 3.5 to 4 inches and a
lot of fliers. Again I went from 38 gr. o 42 gr. with no improvement. I then tried the 300 gr. T/C
shock wave and still not impressed with my results. Also tried different powder weights.
Then I went to the 195 gr. DC duplex precision rifle bullets and my groups shrunk to 2.5 inches.
That was at 38 gr. Of SR 4759, I worked up to 42 gr. And my groups went to 1.5 inches at 100
yards. I got some very good groups and  very pleased with the results. I then put 6 clay pigeons
out in the berm at 150 yards, I shot 5 out of 5 in a row with the 195 gr. PR duplex bullets. I did
not use a hold over, I was holding dead on. My gun is sighted in 2 inches high at 100 yards. Well
I ran out of bullets, but I found a load and bullet combination that works very good in the gun,
now I will use my Savage tomorrow morning for our opening muzzleloader season for deer. I did
have my Encore Pro-hunter on standby, just in case I did not find a load.. I knew I should of
brought 3 packs of bullets instead of 2, I was having a blast shooting. My conclusion is, I like the
Savage. 

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Sounds like fun. Now you'll just have to figure out a way to shoot the heavier slugs.
I forget where i saw this, but i read that the breechplugs are good for only 50-60 shots? Any info on weather that is true or not?

[jrkrk]

Redhawk congrats  on your new savage. Go to Dougs Message boards for all your questions and info on the savage.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage

[Redhawk1]

 bigblock455, the vent liner is good for 100 rounds, I am close to that after today. My gun came with 2 extra ones. But the breech plug can go a lot longer than 100 rounds. The vent liner goes in the end of the breech plug.  As far as the heavier slugs, right now the 195 gr. PR bullets will do all I need for deer hunting. I have used them in my Encore for over 2 years now with great results on deer, all pass through shots out to 135 yards. If and when I decide to go to a heavier slug, I will try a different powder or another bullet. Something I will have to do later. But I can always go back to my Encore Pro-hunter if need be.


jrkrk, thanks. I was not sold on the Savage for the past few years, but after today I am sold on them. The cool thing is, after I was at the range today I came home and loaded up for tomorrow morning, all I have to do is put a 209 primer in it when I get to the woods. No cleaning needed. Yes I have been going to Doug's and have been doing a lot of reading, and I mean a lot. There is a lot of information on the Savage there.

Boy I am glad I was open minded on the Savage, or else I could of missed a good thing. 

[Oldsnow]

Sounds like you have found a good rifle and a good load to go with it. It is good to have another smokeless M/L shooter around. Good luck tomorrow and the rest of the gun season. 

[Redhawk1]

Sounds like you have found a good rifle and a good load to go with it. It is good to have another smokeless M/L shooter around. Good luck tomorrow and the rest of the gun season. 

Oldsnow, are you going out tomorrow?  Yes in deed it is a fun gun. As soon as they changed the law this year about smokeless in Delaware, I got serious about the Savage.

[Cheesehead]

I have often thought the Savage would be a nice system since it is totally non-corrosive.

Cheese

[superdown]

I really know absolutely ZERO about smoke poles have shot a few but that's it . Whats the velocity difference? What other advantages are their to smokeless other than the corrosive nature of black powder in muzzle loaders ?, thanks ,Justin

[Slufoot]

  I was not sold on the Savage for the past few years, but after today I am sold on them. The cool thing is, after I was at the range today I came home and loaded up for tomorrow morning, all I have to do is put a 209 primer in it when I get to the woods. No cleaning needed.
Boy I am glad I was open minded on the Savage, or else I could of missed a good thing. 

Redhawk, Glad to hear you found an accurate load. Hope you get a deer with it and if you do let us know how it performs.
I've got a feeling that the Encore muzzleloader barrel is going to get mighty lonely since the Savage has moved in.


 

I really know absolutely ZERO about smoke poles have shot a few but that's it . Whats the velocity difference? What other advantages are their to smokeless other than the corrosive nature of black powder in muzzle loaders ?, thanks ,Justin

Hello superdown, the velocity difference can be quite a bit but you have to use the right sabots to take advantage of the velocity gains. 777 powder around here cost more than a pound of smokeless powder and you can load at least 2 to 3 times more shots with the smokeless powder per pound. The velocity you might get with 150 grains of 777 might only take 50 grains of smokeless.
When you shoot at game with the Savage you can see the reaction and tell if you made a good shot, with other muzzleloadeing propellents all you see is a white cloud.
The corrosive issue is the main reason I went with the Savage.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[Redhawk1]

I really know absolutely ZERO about smoke poles have shot a few but that's it . Whats the velocity difference? What other advantages are their to smokeless other than the corrosive nature of black powder in muzzle loaders ?, thanks ,Justin

Slufoot has covered it. Now I would not hesitate to shoot my Encore 200 yards with the present load I have in it. As far as the smoke, that does not bother me much. The main reason I say that is, I know where my bullet is going and I know I made a good shot. But I do have to say, it is nice to see the whole thing, without the smoke.

Slufoot, you may be right, but I will still take my Encore out once in a while.

Also we did not see anything this morning, as far as deer. But we had a pit bull chasing a red fox all over the place. I was so pi$$ed off. Needles to say, we will be on the look out for it next time. It kind of put a damper on the deer coming out.

[elkstalkr]

My conclusion is, I like the
Savage. 

No surprise there.  I don't see how anyone who is into modern muzzle loading could not like this gun!  They just need to keep an open mind and give it a chance, like you did!

[Redhawk1]

My conclusion is, I like the
Savage. 

No surprise there.  I don't see how anyone who is into modern muzzle loading could not like this gun!  They just need to keep an open mind and give it a chance, like you did!

I almost have my buddy talked into one. He is as hard headed as I was. 

[AndyHass]

If the 195 works, it is plenty of bullet for deer and always performed for me when I used it.  No noticeable difference in how the deer reacted from heavier bullets.  Went down every bit as quickly.

While the stock Savage is usually OK from most accounts, it is one of those guns that can be dramatically improved with a little bit of tweaking.  Doug's Board is full of knowledge on that.  If you bedded, and certainly if you added the third pillar, you'd probably be good to go.

My guess is the heavier slugs are building a lot of pressure...maybe you'd have to start lower or with a different powder with them.  I'd ask the experts at Doug's.

[kb]

I have the ML11 as well, and it is a great gun.  My load is 43g of 4759, under a 250g SST/XTP in a harvester short sabot.  It will shoot better then I can.  My best is just under an inch at 100 yards.  Typically its a 1-2 inch group.  It is easy cleaning and lethal.    My shotguns and other muzzle loaders are getting very lonely these days.

Kb

[1187VX2]

Yes, my Savage does very well with 45 grains of 4759 and the 250 gr SST.  Around 1 inch at 100 and 2 1/2 " at 200 yards - it'd probably do better if someone else was shooting it.  Only a few inches of drop at 200 as well.

As a note, Illinois had its youth deer season this past weekend.  My 9 year old son was using a Knight Wolverine - 60 grs of 777 and a round ball.  We had fun & he got his doe Sunday evening.  That is when the work began.  And of course, after the deer was all taken care of what is waiting for me?  That dang dirty muzzleloader.  Having used the Savage the last couple of years, I had almost forgotten about that (unwanted) little chore that has to be taken care of after a successfull hunt.  I guess I need to buy another Savage.................     

[kb]

 

[simonkenton]

Redhawk, congratulations on your Savage!
I have had one for 3 years, I really like it. I shoot the 250 XTP or SST, depending on the mood I am in. I get 1 1/2 inch groups with the SST and the XTP is slightly more accurate.
I shoot 43 grains of VV N110 and it is lethal on deer. I shot a big doe in the chest with that XTP, it knocked her for a back flip, made a 4 inch ENTRANCE wound. It was impressive to see a deer knocked for a back flip.
The main reason I went for the Savage was the noncorrosive aspect. I live way out in the country, I like to just take one or two shots from the porch, and put the gun up. Haven't cleaned the Savage in over a year.
Redhawk, with as much shooting as you did, sounds like you were not waiting between shots for the barrel to cool. Am I right?
I have to wait 15 minutes between shots, or my groups go to crap. That wait is the only thing I dislike about the gun.

[Redhawk1]

simonkenton, I let the barrel cool some times. I wanted to try shooting with a warm barrel and a hot barrel also. I was at the range for 5 to 6 hours. I never had the barrel so hot that it was untouchable.

With the 195 gr. I did a lot of back to back shooting with little if any point of impact change.

[Semisane]

Good report Redhawk1. 

I then put 6 clay pigeons out in the berm at 150 yards, I shot 5 out of 5 in a row with the 195 gr. PR duplex bullets. . . .Well I ran out of bullets .

Pigeon #6 was damn lucky! 

[Redhawk1]

Good report Redhawk1. 

I then put 6 clay pigeons out in the berm at 150 yards, I shot 5 out of 5 in a row with the 195 gr. PR duplex bullets. . . .Well I ran out of bullets .

Pigeon #6 was damn lucky! 

No it wasn't, the guy sitting on the bench next to me shot it with his 30-06. LOL

[Dave1]

RH

Thanks for posting the info.  I too am considering the 10ML-II and have been researching all the available info and feedback.  It all sounds good but apparently there are a few issues.

I read where it was suggested the vent liner should be changed much more frequently to maintain best accuracy.  This change out procedure required something be drilled out???  Some 10ML-II owners suggest changing it every 25-30 shots.  There is also a permanent alteration to the breech plug or a customized breech plug that is even better.

What stock do you have, synthetic or laminated wood?  Like it?

It sounds like you are off to a good start with that gun.  I may be following along soon.

Dave1

[Redhawk1]

Dave1, the vent liner is not that big of an issue as I have found. There is a guy making them that give better performance, he clams 400 shots before they need to be changed, also the drilling out of the breech plug is very easy. I did order the new vent liners and a new breech plug. I should get them in about a week.
I have the synthetic stock and like it well.

I have gone to the message board other have posted here and there is a lot of great information there on the Savage. Good luck when you get one..

[1187VX2]

What has to be drilled out of the breech plug is carbon residue/ash (from the 209 primers I assume).  It isn't a big deal.  I didn't drill this stuff out of mine until the breech plug was practically blocked off.  It still shot 250 XTPs fine like this but wouldn't shoot anything else worth a hoot.  After drilling the carbon out, back to normal.  Now I just drill it out after shooting session - just so it can't build up much.  Just maintenance really. 

Changing the vent liner really isn't needed but maybe every 100 shots or so.  Plus there are better ones out there that last who's knows how long - haven't worn one out yet.

Yes, there are a few little thing you have to learn to deal with on the Savage, but none of them amount to much.

[simonkenton]

Drilling the carbon out of the breech plug is no big deal. I do it every 100 shots. You have the breechplug out of the rifle anyway, to clean it, just takes 2 minutes to drill that carbon out.
Factory vent liners last 100 shots, Randy Wakeman's last for 400 shots or so.
Not much trouble considering all the benefits you get from this great rifle, not the least of which is great accuracy.
Plus, that Savage forum is great. Very knowledgable guys, very helpful.

[a45gunslinger]

I still haven't had a ventliner problem..Do they just get burned up?? I've got hundreds of rounds thru my MLII and still no problems..(knock on wood).

Redhawk , Congrats on your savage. I'm glad you weren't disappointed  - Kevin