Author Topic: Need less recoil than my .30-06 - opinions? (Read 2465 times)

Selmer · « **on:** October 05, 2007, 05:50:32 AM »

Okay, I'm man enough to admit, my shoulders hurt when I'm not shooting, and my M70 FWT in .30-06 is just brutal to me on the bench. I like the rifle, it shoots well and has killed dozens of deer for me. But with my unexplained shoulder pain right now, I need a lighter kicking option. I do all of my own handloading and have had a long love affair with the .243 Win, but the only one we have my mother shoots, and I'm moved out with my own family now. I'm looking at possibly the .243, .260 Rem., or 7mm-08. I have had a .308 in the past and it was redundant with my .30-06 around, so I traded it, and it honestly didn't kick much less. What do you guys think? What caliber should I get, one of these or something else entirely. I'm looking at open country deer hunting out to 300 yds, and yes, I know a .243 will kill deer at that range, I've done it with my mother's and 100 gr. Partitions. I'm not trying to start a .243 deer rifle debate, I know it's enough and that's all that matters, but are the others in the same recoil class or are they considerably more recoil? And yes, I've tried loading reduced loads, this rifle only likes one load, 57 gr. of IMR 4350 and a 165 gr. BT or partition, all the rest are 2" plus!
Thanks for the help!
Selmer
PS Should I hang on to the .30-06? I'd like to, but that will be financially tight. It's a beautiful Classic FWT stainless, I fell in love with the looks when I bought it.

Sweet 6.5 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:18:44 AM »

Me first! before somebody shows you in the wrong direction!

6.5X55 (CZ550FS) but if it has to be short - the .260.

You can keep the 30-06, but it will not see much use.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:33:03 AM »

Don't feel bad about your experiences with recoil. Your not alone. I have already prepared for the day when the .30-06 will recoil too much.

While loading up the scale with the .280 using 140 gr bullets, I observed there was a noticeable difference in recoil for loads less than 2600 fps versus those higher than 2700 fps. That's unfortunate about your experiences with reduced loads. I've had good success using IMR 4895 with bottom end loads and 180 gr bullets. My personal experiences with the 165-168 gr bullets is that they like to go a bit fast.

Also, there are reduced recoil factory loads for the .30-06.

For me there is little or no difference in recoil from standard .270, .280 and .308 loads in comparison to the .30-06.

If your looking for a new caliber, the 7mm-08 would be a good choice and will provide the power and distance you desire. The .260 as well, but I would be a bit concerned about ammo availability and cost.

Good Luck with your choice.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:47:50 AM »

708 in a full sized rifle like a Ruger 77 !
you should enjoy your hunt , not get the snot kicked out of you !

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:50:56 AM »

We just got a .308 lightweight Tikka for my son. It's his first big game rifle. The ammo he's using has surprisingly mild recoil. I use the Speer 150 grain boat tail soft point with Speer's starting load for Varget. This is about 200fps less than the max load, which still makes it OK for hunting, but has milder recoil. I use this trick with all my recoiling rifles.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:25:42 AM »

Selmer,
I'm a 243 fan also and have killed a bunch of deer and paper with one over the years. Open country shots may require a little more oomph than our 43s though. Have ya considered a 25/06? Light recoil with a lot of butt left at the 300 yd mark. Have ya considered one of the Simms Recoil Pads. I put one on an Encore(300WM) and it helped absorb the recoil extremely well. It went from entirely uncomfortable to managable.

HWD

Ruskin · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:41:01 AM »

I use a 150 gr in my 06. I also would look for a shoulder pad by past or a pad for the rifle. I have had a gun smith here take a 7 mag and tame it with muzzle break and pad. I think with a good smith you could resume your shhoting of the 06.

Castaway · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:57:50 AM »

Try loading a lighter bullet. Go to a reduced charge. Physics tells us you will duplicate a lighter recoiling round if your bullet mass and velocity are the same (less powder charge difference).

dw06 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2007, 08:44:21 AM »

Try the 150gr bullet might help somewhat.If not go with the 260 Remington,its a good one.Oh and hang onto the M70 fwt,even if it hangs on the wall,its a good one just to look at!

calvon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:09:57 AM »

I had a Pre-64 Winchester Featherweight .06 for a lot of years until I got too old and crippled to hunt with it. Gave it to a nephew who will try to wear it out and when he fails in that he has two sons to carry on with it.

It kicked like a mule. I tamed it with one of those sorbothane recoil pads. There are several. The one I had was made by Kick EZ. With it I could shoot that thing off the bench all day and never flinch once.

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:18:53 AM »

I too have a bum shoulder that really needs surgery badly but I keep refusing to have it done. The '06 hurts me on the bench as well. But before you go to the expense of buying a new gun just for that reason let me offer you some cheaper options.

Get a Simms Vibration Labs pad installed like the Remington R3 pads. They tame recoil better than any I've seen. Then buy a PAST Magnum strap on pad and use it every time you shoot on the range. I think those two things will fix your problem and allow you to stay with your current gun. When hunting you won't shoot it enough and won't notice the recoil. Just use the PAST pad on the range and add the Simms Recoil pad and I think you'll do fine.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:25:06 AM »

try the 125 gr bullet , works great on whitetails and kicks less !

Selmer · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:31:58 AM »

Thanks for the advice guys. I have a Past pad that I've used before and it doesn't help much. I have a good Pachmayr pad on the gun already, but maybe one of these new material pads would work better? I've also tried loading down, but I spent almost a year trying to get an accurate load for this rifle and it has proved to be very finicky. It does like the "standard" .30-06 load, 57 gr. IMR 4350 and a 165 gr. bullet, Noslers in this case. I don't notice the recoil in the field and it doesn't concern me because I rarely have to shoot more than once. It's been a wonderful deer rifle for me, so maybe I'll try some of these tips first. But then again, I'd love to have a .243 in addition to my .30-06! If I did that I'm sure I'd use the .243 for varmints and deer and hang on to the .30-06 for when I'm out of seminary and have the time to go elk hunting.
Selmer

flintlock · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:34:08 AM »

Since you reload, you have a bunch of options....243, .260, 7mm-08 and 25-06...

If you don't mind a long action and a longer barrel than a standard long action, the 25-06 would do a good job...I haven't ever warmed up t it because of the .270 and the fact that the barrel is usually 24 inches in a factory gun...

I don't care for a .260 simply because a buddy has one and had a devil of a time getting it to group, so much so that he started reloading...Finally ended up buying a .243....

I shoot a .243 and I'm happy with it...

My brother bought a 7mm-08 and it does a good job, I'd like to have a 7mm-08 CDL because in my opinion they balance extremely well...My only problem is the .243 does all I need....If I didn't use a .243 for deer, I'd use either a 7mm-08 or a .270...To my shoulder a .270 kicks close to a 30-06, so that's not going to help you that much....

Castaway · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2007, 11:43:12 AM »

If your lighter bullet didn't shoot well, try a Barnes copper bullet. Being less dense than lead and therefore longer for an equivalent weight bullet, they may stabalize enough in what I'm assuming is a 1:10 twist to allow you to work up an accurate load. Barnes makes a 130 grainer for your 30 caliber rifle.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 2007, 01:28:19 AM »

Have you thought about a "lead sled" for your bench work? There are a couple of different brands and models out now. It really tames the recoil. I use one for my bench work now, even for light recoiling guns. Years ago I was sighting in a very light 12 gage slug gun (6.5 pounds). Recoil was really bothering me. I made a sand bag out of an old blue jean leg. I made it long enough to hang over my shoulder. I weighed over 25 pounds. I would put it over my shoulder with just enough on the back side to keep it from falling off with nothing in between, the part that on top of the shoulder. The extra weight + spreading it out over a larger area really helped. It is funny how shooting at a bench (or even standing) can kick the snot out of me. It is enough to bruise my shoulder after three shots. In the field I can shoot the same gun many times during a day and recoil never bothers me.

Val · « **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2007, 02:57:57 AM »

The 25-06 is an outstanding flat shooting deer caliber. It uses the 30-06 shell casing necked down. It will drop any deer. It kicks substantially less than the 30-06 because of the use of a lighter bullet. I use 120 grain pellets in mine.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2007, 05:16:41 AM »

If your hunting is gonna be limited to whitetail deer, mulies and black bear, get you a 7-08. In a standard rifle, not any sort of light weight. I would suggest a .260 but I'm afraid that is gonna be a hand loading proposition only in a few years. Nothing wrong with that if you reload.

If you have your own range, building a stand up bench can often ease felt recoil. If you use a public or membership range, crank your front rest and toe bag up as high as possible so you are sitting as erect as possible. The various pads suggested can help quite a bit.

Ruskin · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2007, 08:19:11 AM »

My first load for an 06 was right off the Varget powder can for 150 grain bullet. Tried it haven't changed.

303Guy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 2007, 07:23:55 AM »

You might try a HEAVIER bullet! No kidding. Your reduced loads may not be giving sufficient pressure for the powder to burn consistently. So with a heavier bullet, you can reduce the powder charge or even use a slower powder. And for range work, you can keep to RN bullets. The end result is a 'push' as opposed to a 'kick'. I found that with my 303, with full power loads, the 180gr bullet gave a much 'softer' recoil than the 150gr.

I have heard lots of good reports on the 6.5 Swede. Mild recoil, accurate, long range, good moose caliber. Must be something in it!

303Guy

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2007, 07:32:19 AM »

If you want to practice and need a light kicker try cast bullets , son shoots a 30/30 alot so i started loading cast to save $$$$$$$ little kick , less noise ( relative ) and cost less !

Ruskin · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2007, 08:02:45 AM »

6.5 swede is a pleasure to shot. I wish I had put my rifle together earlier, missed a lot of years that I could have had it.

jhalcott · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2007, 04:05:07 PM »

SOME of your problem may be the position you are shooting from at the bench. If you are nearly prone while shooting,the recoil comes straight back into your shoulder. Try to elevate the gun so you are sitting more erect. This will allow your upper body to move and absorb some of the recoil. The lead sled is another way to lessen felt recoil. A couple bags of shot on the tray equals about 50 pounds that the gun can't move. You did NOT say the recoil bothers you while HUNTING ,just at the bench. Cast bullets can be VERY accurate and mild shooting. IF you can't afford a "sled" you can make one from a 2x6 with a short 1x2 attached on one end. Sort of an "L" shape. Load it up with shot bags or sand bags. Mount the gun on the bags with the butstock against the short L and your shoulder, with Past pad, against the outside of the L. If you STILL have a recoil problem , I don't know what else to do.

303Guy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2007, 07:16:21 PM »

I would think the 30-30 to be an ideal cast bullet cartridge (as is a hornet). Would shooting cast in a larger case capacity cartridge like the 30-06 present any special problems? (I don't have one but it sounds like such a good idea to me that I am interested). I know that with my hornet and its 1 in 16 twist rate, I can get 2700 fps. The 30-06 would have a 1 in 10 twist, the same as my 303, which kinda limited velocity I think. My .311 180gr cast bullets were cr@p in my 303 but worked pretty good in a friends k-98 in 308 with a 1 in 10 twist.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:18:36 AM »

Years ago the older man at a shooting club i belong to shot cast bullets in his 3006 , he won some rifle competition with them . Other shooters would always find it hard to believe the cast bullet was as accurate as it was . We find the 30-30 to shoot nice . As far as special requirements , check out a loading man. and stick to their direction and you should be fine . We do clean our guns after lead and before jacketed bullets to be sure we haven't experienced a bbl. leading problem , which so far we have not . We don't try to make a lead bullet be a jacketed bullet and so far have not had a problem ie. we don't try to increase speed over recommended speed in manuals .

jhalcott · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:04:39 AM »

303guy, you might want to try a "fatter" bullet in your 303. Those bores are USUALLY .312" and often a bit bigger than that Slug the bore and try for a bullet about .001 or .002 LARGER than the bore.

303Guy · « **Reply #26 on:** October 11, 2007, 07:36:33 AM »

jhalcott , you are right. If I recall, my groove diameter is .312 and bore .304 . The mold I have is a two diameter type and the nose section is smaller than the bore. I am leaning towards swaging lead when I get around to it. My lubrisizer die is 0.311. I can live with that by paper cupping the bullet. Right now I am having too much fun with my zero recoiling, fiddly but fun to reload and great to shoot hornet!

Jim M · « **Reply #27 on:** October 11, 2007, 03:52:39 PM »

Try getting off the bench. Once you have your load worked up and your rifle zeroed, you don't need it. Your shooting will improve greatly and the recoil is quite a bit less. I'm not being a smart alec but I've done the same thing for my grandson and got him off that bench. He told me it's a lot harder and I ask him how many times he saw a shooting bench in the woods. Good luck with that shoulder.

wncchester · « **Reply #28 on:** October 15, 2007, 11:04:33 AM »

Get a box of 150 gr. 30-30 bullets and load them to 30-30 speeds. Your Past pad should keep it comfortable.

Both you AND Gray-Bill should get those shoulders corrected, right AFTER hunting season! Last year my right shoulder was torn up so badly I just had to get it repaired in Oct so I missed hunting but I'm ready to go now. And what a pain relief!

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #29 on:** October 15, 2007, 01:42:30 PM »

The 7 X 57 Mauser. I challenge anyone to actually better it as a balanced cartridge for light to medium game. It has stood the test of time, from 1893, and still going strong.