Author Topic: Encore - Omega - Triumph ?? (Read 2515 times)

Varmint Hunter · « **on:** October 05, 2007, 03:48:11 PM »

I just may upgrade my Knight MK85 rifle to a new T/C. Any opinions on the Encore - Omega or Triumph rifles? Accuracy, ease of use, ease of cleaning, etc. I'm really open to suggestions on this before I jump in and order one.

poncaguy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2007, 03:57:04 PM »

I have an Encore and an Omega.......I prefer the Omega Z5 for black powder hunting. All are excellent rifles, take ur pick.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2007, 04:27:23 PM »

I have an Omega and just bought a Knight KRB7 which I think I like better. You might consider staying with the Knight line and the KRB will handle conicals according to some reports which the T/C rifles tend to not like. Just over $300 delivered in Stainless with synthetic stock.

poncaguy · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2007, 04:33:57 PM »

I too have the new Knight Rolling Block, haven't mounted a scope yet as I was hunting deer in Kansas which doesn't allow scopes. Will post results with scope in the next week or so.........

30-06man · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2007, 05:25:20 PM »

look into the trimuph it seems to be the best out there, its very balanced and light and i was very impressed with the breach plug, it had a sims pad on it also with the standard solid allumium ram rod. you can't beat it for $400

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2007, 05:43:54 PM »

you can beat it. Just have to take your time, look and handle different muzzleloaders until you find the perfect one for you.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2007, 11:59:45 PM »

With the choices given, the Encore would be my choice. I have been shooting the Encore for 5 or 6 years now. I switch from a Knight and that was my best move. I would never own a Knight again. JMO

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2007, 05:44:33 AM »

Not quite sure what issue Redhawk has with Knight (personally I did not like the plastic carriers but they have pretty much done away with them in the newer rifles). With the Greenmountain barrel and the quality I see in the KRB7 that I just got I sure would not rule them out. You can find problems with any rifle if you talk to enough people. The big thing is what looks right and feels right for you. Try to handle as many as you can before making a final decision.

30-06man · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2007, 05:54:33 AM »

also look into the new remington and the nef. or cva

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2007, 06:58:59 AM »

I had a pricey Encore and dumped it. Had to send it back to the factory twice and they couldn't get it right. After that I went back to the NEF H&R and for the price it is the most out of the box tack driver I have ever shot.

I have handled the new T/C Triumph and it feels great in feel and weight. I have yet to hear any range reports though. Until I have a little more data, I will hold comments and cash.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2007, 07:15:46 AM »

Quote from: Keith Lewis on October 05, 2007, 04:27:23 PM

I have an Omega and just bought a Knight KRB7 which I think I like better. You might consider staying with the Knight line and the KRB will handle conicals according to some reports which the T/C rifles tend to not like. Just over $300 delivered in Stainless with synthetic stock.

You asked about ease of cleaning. The KRB trigger group drops out with a detent button. The barrel can be removed completely from the action with one bolt that is the same size as the breechplug hex so one tool takes it completely apart. The Omega trigger group is a lot harder to disassemble. I suspect that the way the barrel attaches there may be alternate barrels available in the future. (maybe shotgun barrel or even smokeless from Smokelessmuzzleloading.com).

AndyHass · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2007, 03:16:43 AM »

Quote from: Keith Lewis on October 06, 2007, 07:15:46 AM

Quote from: Keith Lewis on October 05, 2007, 04:27:23 PM
I have an Omega and just bought a Knight KRB7 which I think I like better. You might consider staying with the Knight line and the KRB will handle conicals according to some reports which the T/C rifles tend to not like. Just over $300 delivered in Stainless with synthetic stock.

You asked about ease of cleaning. The KRB trigger group drops out with a detent button. The barrel can be removed completely from the action with one bolt that is the same size as the breechplug hex so one tool takes it completely apart. The Omega trigger group is a lot harder to disassemble. I suspect that the way the barrel attaches there may be alternate barrels available in the future. (maybe shotgun barrel or even smokeless from Smokelessmuzzleloading.com).

True, though I've never had a reason to take my Omega trigger group apart. I might this winter to work on the trigger though. I take the action out occasionally and it's never dirty in there.

I am intrigued a little bit by the latest Knight offerings but have not looked at them closely myself. The new fast breeches on the T/Cs look hard to beat though.

Critter · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2007, 08:58:07 AM »

I am shopping for a new ML right now myself. I thought the Triumph felt cheap and kind of like a 2x4. I like the Omega and the Encore but can't get past the QLA, I just don't like it. If I buy a T/C I think it will be the Omega. Have you looked at the Knight Disc Extreme or Long Range Hunter yet?

poncaguy · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2007, 01:26:47 PM »

I had to have my Omega trigger cleaned by my gunsmith, it locked up and wouldn't work. Why I'm trying the new Knight Rolling block, trigger comes out with ease for cleaning. I have no need of the new breech plug the Thompson's have, I use lube and just finger tighten plugs and they come out with ease.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:27:20 PM »

Quote

I like the Omega and the Encore but can't get past the QLA

What's the problem with the QLA? It looked like an innovative and useful feature to me.

Critter · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:45:31 PM »

I have seen and heard of several that were cut wrong and caused poor accuracy. I saw one at the shop once that was cut so bad you could see it with the naked eye. T/C made it right with the guy but I guess I'm just leery of it. Buying a new ML and then cutting and re-crowning it is not appealing to me.
I know that there are lots of them out there shooting just fine but it sticks in the back of my head.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #16 on:** October 07, 2007, 05:28:02 PM »

T/C rifles with the QLA seem to shoot sabot bullets just fine but solid lead conicals other than Powerbelts do not do so well. My theory is that the relieved portion of the barrel allows gas to escape past the solid lead bullet on the way out and causes instability of the bullet leaving the barrel. With a sabot the area is sufficently sealed to stop the gas from getting past the sabot and the bullet is released without the blast of gas upsetting it (this is just a theory) but the fact that a lot of QLA barrels will not shoot conical bullets is not a theory it is fact ! The Powerbelt has a gas check cup that accomplishes the same thing as a sabot when it reaches the QLA portion of the barrel.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2007, 01:35:43 AM »

That is why the QLA does not bother me, I shoot sabots in my Encore. I have great success and great accuracy with the sabots. If I wanted to shoot solid lead conicals and the Encore would not shoot them well, I might consider having it removed.

But other than that, the QLA is not a bad system in my opinion.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2007, 02:23:27 AM »

Quote from: Keith Lewis on October 07, 2007, 05:28:02 PM

T/C rifles with the QLA seem to shoot sabot bullets just fine but solid lead conicals other than Powerbelts do not do so well. My theory is that the relieved portion of the barrel allows gas to escape past the solid lead bullet on the way out and causes instability of the bullet leaving the barrel. With a sabot the area is sufficently sealed to stop the gas from getting past the sabot and the bullet is released without the blast of gas upsetting it (this is just a theory) but the fact that a lot of QLA barrels will not shoot conical bullets is not a theory it is fact ! The Powerbelt has a gas check cup that accomplishes the same thing as a sabot when it reaches the QLA portion of the barrel.

What you say makes sense. I could only shoot sabots in my Encore. Conicals would never shoot to any consistency. But the loading was very easy with sabots.

Now I don't have that problem any more with my NEF. It loads anything and with ease.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2007, 05:59:53 AM »

L. Larry: Even though it is just a theory it is based on some fairly good physics background. I spent 39 years as a Development Engineer for an automotive company and have a Mechanical Engineer background. A lot of the work I did was just like this; determining why things didn't work when we thought they should.

30-06man · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2007, 03:00:04 PM »

the qla works fine for sabots. that's what it was designed for. i mean i have never seen this werid cut on a t/c qla. but what you say about the bullets with no gas check makes sense but if you just want to use sabots then i would opt. for the qla. the new muzzle loader seems like its the best and i didn't notice a cheap feeling to it.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2007, 12:51:42 AM »

UPDATE:

Well, after quite a bit of research and some healthy debate I am closing in on a decision. The T/C Encore Pro-Hunter may just get the nod. I really like the rifle and may eventually want to add a couple of barrels. However, I am still waiting for T/C to return my call regarding maximum 777 charges in several of their muzzleloaders. I'm still curious to know what the difference is betwee the various Encore muzzleloaders and the 209x50 Magnum muzzleloader. I'd also like to know how much powder the Triumph, with the newly designed breech plug w/compression rings, is rated for.

Thanks for everyones input.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2007, 01:46:28 AM »

If I am not mistaken, all the 45 and 50 caliber Encore barrels are rated for 150 gr. (3 pellets). That is what I have used in them for the past 6 years. But like you, I don't know the max charge the Triumph can handle.

30-06man · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2007, 01:10:59 PM »

all t/c pro hunters, triumphs, g2s, and omegas are magnums and can handle 150 grains. its just a waste of a pellet unless you have a 28 inch barrel so that it can fully burn the charge.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2007, 02:11:34 PM »

Quote from: 30.06man on October 09, 2007, 01:10:59 PM

all t/c pro hunters, triumphs, g2s, and omegas are magnums and can handle 150 grains. its just a waste of a pellet unless you have a 28 inch barrel so that it can fully burn the charge.

I would have to disagree with that statement. In my 26 or 28 inch barrel my fps is only 100 fps differents. That has to do with barrel length, not the amount the of powder burnt. I don't know when the last time you lit black powder, triple7 or pyrodex, but it sure burns faster than any smokeless powder, that is where barrel lengths come into play more than black powder.

30-06man · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2007, 03:52:20 PM »

i have to disagree.. the 150 grains is a waste unless you have a longer barrel. the power will not burn fast enough and you can see the last pellet fly out still burning in one whole piece. when its out of the barrel it has no effect on anything but more smoke. if you was to take your ml out now go load it with 150 grains of triple seven pellets and shoot it the last will come out still intact burning and the bullet is down range. no effect. basically the magnum charge is a bunch of bs unless you have the longer barrel so it can burn creating more fps. if you shoot it out of anything less than a 24 inch barrel its a waste! take time and re read my post. i said you need the longer barrel to make it worth the extra 50 grains. even then it may not be worth it

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** October 09, 2007, 03:57:53 PM »

I'd rather have a Knight but if you must have a T/C, the Omega would be my first choice.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #27 on:** October 09, 2007, 05:00:11 PM »

Reading in my deer creek manual, It takes a 32" barrel to burn 100 grains FFg powder.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:25:06 AM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on October 09, 2007, 05:00:11 PM

Reading in my deer creek manual, It takes a 32" barrel to burn 100 grains FFg powder.

OK lets say you are right, which I think your not, but that is just my opinion. Now explain to me why my velocity goes up in my Encore when I shoot 120 gr. of loose triple7 opposed to 90 gr. of loose triple7? If no more powder is burnt then 100 gr. why is there such a dramatic increase in my velocity? If you say it take 32 inches of barrel to burn 100 gr. of FFg powder, why wouldn't my velocity remain the same no matter how much more I powder put in the gun over 100 gr.

The reason for the velocity increases is because more powder gets burnt.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:09:09 AM »

Forgot to add, Black powder and black powder sub are two different animals. 150 of triple7 is totally different than 150 gr. of black powder. You can't compare apples to oranges.