Author Topic: 357 mag 44 mag ????????? (Read 7718 times)

warrior1 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 09, 2007, 12:17:12 AM »

there was a bear attack in michigan yesterday involving a bow hunter ,his friend and the bear.unfortunatelly
i missed the complete report,however i should get the whole story today.

Mikey · « **Reply #31 on:** October 09, 2007, 01:07:44 AM »

I MYSELF WOULD DROP THE GUN AND PULL MY BOWIE KNIFE AND STEP IN CLOSE AS HE STANDS UPRIGHT AND GUT HIM FROM STEM TO STERN.

I myself would most likely re-holster my gun, grab my belt to hoist my pants up as far as they could get and let my feet do the walkin'...................................(incorrect grammar or not. In fact, if I could outrun Grammar I would prolly leave her to deal with the bear, and then the bear would be on his own................

And what Davemuzz said is correct - you don't want to confuse that poor grizzly. If he thinks there are actually two of you, or that you may suffer a multiple personality disorder, I'm sure he wouldn't want to get involved in a hostage situation.......................Just a thought.

BTW - an article in one of the recent Bugle magazines about the Montana outdoors recommends using a spray instead of a handgun to dissuade big bear. The sprays are much more effective, especially the Capsian sprays that confuse the bruin's sense of smell and eyesight. The article recommends spraying a low and wide area in front of the bear to get the spray into the bear's face as the bear appears to move on ya in a swaying motion.

The article also stated that trying to hit a moving bear in the head for a brain shot is like trying to hit a beer can (bear brain smaller than beer can) moving at about 30 miles per hour. Well, since I don't own bear repellant spray it sure looks like I gotta practice a lot of moving shots..................Mikey.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** October 09, 2007, 01:57:37 AM »

Gee guys why don't ya'll just GRIN the bear to death like old Danial Boone ?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #33 on:** October 09, 2007, 02:52:20 AM »

like trying to hit a beer can (bear brain smaller than beer can) moving at about 30 miles per hour

Well....now I have a legit excuse to simply buy more cases of beer. I can (1) on day 1 drink the beer....then (2) on day 2 fill the empty cans with water and Practice, Practice, Practice. Then on day 3, I'll have to start all over again! (But honey....I'm only trying to protect our family's lives!!!)

As far as the D. Boone smile thing.....well.....that's gonna be tough to do with only one tooth.

Dave

BIG Dog454 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 09, 2007, 03:17:34 AM »

I had a big mean red squirrel charging down a tree limb the other day and I stopped him cold with a .357. Does that count? or do you think that I was under gunned?

44 Man · « **Reply #35 on:** October 09, 2007, 04:12:22 AM »

I think M-G Willy put it best. Under MOST circumstances, a .357 would do nicely, and you have the advantage of shooting inexpensive .38 spl reloads so you could afford to do a lot of shooting. If this is your first gun, that's what I would do. If you have more experience, step up to the .44 Mag, it WILL do a lot more than a .357 and with more authority. As for killing bears, you can only hope you do not ever have to and no matter how big a gun you have, you will wish you had a bigger one! Back to the original question. Yes. 44 Man

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #36 on:** October 09, 2007, 06:58:33 AM »

with respect to 44man and back to org. ? MAYBE !

waterdog · « **Reply #37 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:43:36 AM »

357 or 44 on a charging Brown (grizzly) bear.

Neither.

The browns are Enourmous and Very Fast. Neither round would be good for dealing with the problem. A HEAVY 44 would do the job but under a Charging condition with the bear and the head both in movement. NO!!!
I got the opportunity to see a Grizzly Up Close once. I would not ever consider carrying a 44 in Grizzly country for protection. Just too much animal. That is why you see Alaskan guides carrying BIG BORE RIFLES.

As far as everywhere else. I think Down in the south east USA, the 357mag loaded correctly will cover anything you need done.

Ern

Graybeard · « **Reply #38 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:19:24 AM »

Geez why are you guys so hung up on grizzly bears in this thread? Did you read what the OP asked? He said there are no grizzlies where he hunts and doesn't expect he will ever see one. He wants to know for other than grizzlies what will work? Some times it seems folks get side tracked and forget what the question is that they are supposed to be responding to.

Camel 23 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 10, 2007, 04:01:27 PM »

Quote from: fatercat on October 06, 2007, 01:38:59 PM

is there really any thing that these two can't do that the other ones can do? 99.9999999999% of us have ever saw griz in the wild, and if we did and he was going to eat us , at that close range ,either one might save us. or might not. six shots in the face?

It seems the original post brought up the grizzly issue but I have been confused by this thread from the start.

jlbeebe · « **Reply #40 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:15:47 PM »

Living in Iowa I have never met anyone who needed anything bigger than a .44. We are pretty much limited to whitetails here and the .44 mag is more than enough medicine for them. The percentage of hunters who will face a charging grizzly is almost nil and shooting one in the face sounds like a good way to get eaten by a really mad grizzly. But thankfully not everything in life is about need. Some things are about want. This is why I am the proud new owner of a super redhawk .454.

verzilli · « **Reply #41 on:** October 11, 2007, 08:29:50 AM »

From all I have read (having never seen a griz), the best solution is bear spray. A close wide area blast of stuff made to screw up a bear's nose and eyes.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #42 on:** October 11, 2007, 03:14:24 PM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on October 09, 2007, 12:05:12 AM

I MYSELF WOULD DROP THE GUN AND PULL MY BOWIE KNIFE AND STEP IN CLOSE AS HE STANDS UPRIGHT AND GUT HIM FROM STEM TO STERN.

"I MYSELF" is actually incorrect grammar. You should say "I"..would. Because in your statement you are referring to yourself twice. This could confuse a Grizzly and he would never stand up in front of you, thus giving you the chance to "gut him from stem to stern" as he stands before you.

Just wanted to clarify that.

No need to thank me.

Dave.

Tanks for clerifing that fo meownself!
I should hav payed mo attion in anglsh class

Willy

corbanzo · « **Reply #43 on:** October 11, 2007, 03:56:02 PM »

I still have yet to hear any tails of bears being turned by bear spray.... As soon as I do, I might admit it has a place in the woods..

Why do you think you are supposed to play dead? They won't stop, even if they are hurting.

I don't get why people don't get that?

corbanzo · « **Reply #44 on:** October 11, 2007, 04:12:32 PM »

There is no % data for handgun calibers to compare with... but... I admit... I may be kind of wrong? It aint gonna stop me from packing guns.

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

fatercat · « **Reply #45 on:** October 11, 2007, 04:28:16 PM »

take 3 2x4x6 BOARDS and nail them togeather. take your hand gun and shoot them at three feet. if it goes through one the grizz won't eat you. kill the head and sit on the body. now suit yourself.

jcn59 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 11, 2007, 04:43:42 PM »

Everytime one of them grizzalies 'tacks me, I lure him into deep water shoot him wit my Glock. Those plastic botom feeders werk goood under water.

Don't evin tri that wit yer 44 'volver, er it will 'SPLODE ! I'm speakin from 'sperience, ya know!

Gene R · « **Reply #47 on:** October 11, 2007, 04:52:31 PM »

I wouldn't get overly concerned about a charging Grizz, he would probably slip and fall in in the pile of "%#*!" that I left behind me then I would shoot him once in the head....Save the pepper spray for cooking...

I wounder how a &%@##& pepper sprayed Grizz would taste anyway?

?

Graybeard · « **Reply #48 on:** October 11, 2007, 05:02:27 PM »

Absolutely amazing. I believe if a person wrote ten pages worth of questions and somewhere in there totally unrelated to the questions the word grizzly was mentioned that 90% of the folks responding would discuss grizzlies. Geez guys it ain't about grizzlies. What in the world is the hang up folks have about discussing how to take care of a critter 95% of the members of this site have never seen and never will see?

jcn59 · « **Reply #49 on:** October 11, 2007, 05:13:08 PM »

Yes, and levity often creeps into a post when least expected.

Reminds me of the joke about the two southern girls who hadn't seen each other in a long time, and one says to the other "Lets have our picture taken together". This was in the old days. So the photographer was fussing around beneath the black cloth on his camera, and one girl says to the other "What's he doing"? The other girl says "He's going to focus". The other girl says "Bofus"?

Camel 23 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 11, 2007, 05:16:44 PM »

I don't even remember ever seeing a grizzly in a zoo! Seen a few black ones in my days though.

Quote from: jcn59 on October 11, 2007, 04:43:42 PM

Everytime one of them grizzalies 'tacks me, I lure him into deep water shoot him wit my Glock. Those plastic botom feeders werk goood under water.

Don't evin tri that wit yer 44 'volver, er it will 'SPLODE ! I'm speakin from 'sperience, ya know!

That was another good thread gone bad.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #51 on:** October 12, 2007, 01:51:47 AM »

what was the ?
o'yea ! both are good , but not 99.9 % , could they be pressed to do everything most likely , that is everything with out regard to our desire to try new and own new guns ! and that's at least 50 % !

BAP · « **Reply #52 on:** October 12, 2007, 03:17:24 AM »

someone asked if anyone had to shoot anything at point blank range that was attacking
i had to shoot an attacking bobcat though not a griz. by any means i still didnt want to fight that thing .i was turkey hunting and had the cat come in on me from behind as i turned to see what was sneaking in on me all i saw was the face of the cat so i hollerd get out of here and it just took a step back and turned around to face me again so i raised the shotgun and pointed it at the cat as it crouched and was going to jump on me this was at 22 inches away so i gave it a load of #5s
it was so close that my shot to the face went threw his neck left a 2 inch hole, shot didnt even expand..
i didnt want to shoot the cat, its ilegal during spring turkey season but i had no choice..
i called the local c.o and he verified my story and gave me the paper work that i needed and im having it mounted...

wsmitty01 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 15, 2007, 05:34:30 AM »

Years ago while elk hunting in New Mexico, I was charged by a large sow black bear. I was watching her from a distance, and saw no threat. All of a sudden I must have gotten winded and did not see that she had a set of cubs with her, if I would have seen the cubs, i would have used a lot more caution. From about 100 yards away she covered that distance in an amazing short period of time. I did have a holstered 44 super blackhawk, but getting in the tree i was under seemed a lot easier than trying to get a shot on the charging bear, very seldom will a full grown bear go up a tree and leave the cubs. She kept me in the tree for a few hours and once determined I was no threat, left. In New Mexico we were not allowed to kill bears with cubs, and unless my life was in danger in that tree I wouldn't have killed her. BUT, the tree was the best option versus a charging bear with it's head down and running at you with a speed that seemed ridiculously too fast for that size of a creature. The time it would take to drop the rifle (scoped) and pull the pistol to maybe get a killing shot on the charging bear, to me it seemed as if my odds were a lot better in the tree. And I just barely got out of her way than....sometimes thinking of the options makes a lot better sense than fool hearty attempts at macho actions. There are too many stories out there with BEAR 1 and HUNTER 0. I was alone and didn't have anyone with me to outrun!!!

msmith · « **Reply #54 on:** October 15, 2007, 02:12:26 PM »

Quote from: fatercat on October 06, 2007, 01:38:59 PM

is there really any thing that these two can't do that the other ones can do? 99.9999999999% of us have ever saw griz in the wild, and if we did and he was going to eat us , at that close range ,either one might save us. or might not. six shots in the face?

Well, that all depends. Since you mentioned big bore wheelgun calibers, I guess you don't mean for ccw. For all around packin' and hunting, I would say 357 would be the least I would carry. I would feel better with at least a 41 for deer, black bear, and hogs, with a 44 or 45 Colt being even better. Personally I carry an FA 454, with 250g XTPs loaded down to just a bit hotter than hot 45 Colt loads, for deer and other vermin, but figure if I was going for hogs or black bear, I would load up some hotter 300g XTPs.

So to answer your question objectively...it is purely subjective...so to speak. Being a handloader, I like the versatility of the 454. So in my opinion the 454 can do what the the ones you mentioned can't. That being said, if I only had a 41 or 44, I would be OK with that too, but have never really been fond of the 357.

So there ya go.

GhosT · « **Reply #55 on:** October 16, 2007, 08:02:58 PM »

Interesing thread.
Grizzley's come up alot.

If a GRIZ showed up...357 mag.
To shoot my own head before the pain...

Smaller animal, a 44 mag....

rigger1 · « **Reply #56 on:** October 18, 2007, 07:31:06 AM »

I think so.

In the '50s during the golden time of unfettered surplus WWII purchases I remember seeing an ad in a magazine which was offering surplus anti-tank rifles. It read: "Stop that charging woodchuck in it's tracks."

Those were the days.

mikedb · « **Reply #57 on:** November 05, 2007, 08:19:55 AM »

Quote from: corbanzo on October 08, 2007, 11:00:54 AM

Quote from: mikedb on October 08, 2007, 01:55:44 AM
The guns are back up to spray.

Hold on bear!! Sorry about the spray, but just wait a minute and stop charging while I pull my gun up on you!! OK, thanks! Gonna shoot now!

There is no back up, there is no second chance. You are talking about one of the fastest sprinting mammals in the world.

If you notice in my post, I stated there was a group of us so we could use both. We knew our role. Read what we did in the tent. I agree one person can not reliably use this method.

kennisondan · « **Reply #58 on:** November 05, 2007, 02:58:38 PM »

I take the question to be whether the 44 and 357 will do what others will do.. and you meant 99% never see grizzly... so : I think that the 357 is fine for most mid sized big game and heavier bullets are used for boars, etc. .. the 44 is the most do all caliber in the world in my opinion, FWIW;
for a do all caliber the 44 is great off the shelf and handloaded too.. up to 300 plus grain bullets, fairly fast.. down to 180 grain bullets.. it does it all and can kill everything up to the big bears.. it is not optimum for this continents biggest game : like moose and elk, etc. but it will do it.. with practice sufficient for good placement and the right bullets.... if you want extra range, extra heavy bullets at great speed; if you want the largest game; if you want the largest measure of extra everything the larger more powerful handgun cartridges --Approach -- what a long gun will do in a large caliber...
that is why folks buy the bigger guns... more power more range bigger bullets at higher velocities.. if my life could depend on it.. I would err on the side of larger and easily could use a long gun despite the allure and sex appeal of the revolvers...
so : yes they will but the 44 will do it better... the other guns have their uses and are different and can be loaded down to 44 and 44 special handling characteristics for most uses and recoil tolerance...
I have shot a large boar that charged me after I made a poor shot on it and did so once I topped a hill out of breath from a run up it... I missed it a few times as it charged from forty yards... with the other ten or so hogs doing the same... had no time to do more than point and shoot and the closer he got the more nervous i was ... he fell dead about ten or fifteen feet away without another scratch on him... I changed clothes and dragged him out with some help as he was about 275 pounds easy... my shooting under pressure needed and needs some work fore I try that again... lol
it was really a shocker to see my self miss at under 40 and counting... about three times I was saving one for contact distance but glad I did not have to go with that plan...
dk

jgalar · « **Reply #59 on:** November 05, 2007, 03:32:26 PM »

After reading this entertaining topic, or off topic, I think we need a dedicated Grizzly forum.