Author Topic: 357 mag 44 mag ????????? (Read 7723 times)

fatercat · « **on:** October 06, 2007, 01:38:59 PM »

is there really any thing that these two can't do that the other ones can do? 99.9999999999% of us have ever saw griz in the wild, and if we did and he was going to eat us , at that close range ,either one might save us. or might not. six shots in the face?

superdown · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2007, 02:02:30 PM »

Well IMO no one is going to be able put 1 let alone six shots in the face of a charging bear with a pistol or rifle . Generally speaking as you increase bullet diameter, weight and velocity you exponentially increase the effectiveness of said cartridge. My best advice would be to #1 try a keep your self out that type of situation in the first place. Secondly get the largest caliber you can be accurate with and practice alot . superdown

Camel 23 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2007, 02:47:36 PM »

I guess I don't understand the question. Are you asking if either of these guns can defend you against a griz that wants to eat you?

fatercat · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2007, 02:59:13 PM »

i have went through a clip full out of my army 45 in less time than it takes a man to fall. if griz is on you, you will wonder why you a pulling the trigger and no bangs, when the gun has fired all its rounds. you guys will find just how quick you are just before you get ATE.

Gene R · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2007, 03:01:05 PM »

I'm not the expert, but like you I don't see any Grizzies in my area either. As for Whitetail, and hogs or any thing shy of a grizz they will kill it with in certain limits, and have killed many Grizzies as well. But I'd prefer not to be facing a Grizz with the 357, a 44 or 45LC heavy loaded would be my minimum. I believe more of the people here will favor 454 and up for the big bears.

fatercat · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2007, 04:10:14 PM »

Gene. that is my question. that close all would be equall. six shots in the face of griz or black bear. if one won't then your are no better of with the other one.-----in face of a lion or tigger.they will both die with a six full in the face. will bet my last dollar.

Gene R · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2007, 04:32:36 PM »

No, it would not be equal....And I agree with others, I dont see anyone being able to put 6 shots in the face of anything that is charging you, 1 would be luck...Maybe your looking for a good shotgun......

fatercat · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2007, 04:46:42 PM »

how many of you respondser on this post have anything ever in your face youv'ed had to kill and if any what was your weapon? regards richard

Gene R · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2007, 05:10:29 PM »

just my wife, but I won't point a gun at her. If I did I would have to find a Proctologist to get my gun back.....

I would be safer shooting would-be Grizzies with a .22

Camel 23 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2007, 11:34:23 PM »

Quote from: fatercat on October 06, 2007, 04:46:42 PM

how many of you respondser on this post have anything ever in your face youv'ed had to kill and if any what was your weapon? regards richard

English is not your primary language is it? I killed a mouse with a stick once. It wasn't in my face though, it was on my leg. They are quick little buggers.

Mikey · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2007, 01:55:32 AM »

camel23: Field Mice are good at that but the ones you need to watch out for are the little tiny ones we call Tit mice - the name is appropriate and they are quicker'n spit, especially with girls, and they know right where to try and hide themselves. It can be an incredible riot if your girlfriend or wife gets one in her blouse.

Richard: I have had to shoot animals right in my face a couple of times and it will not matter if it is a 357, a 44, a 454 or a 500 - with big bear you may get one shot off and then you are sushi, period. If you are going into bad bear country take something that will stop a bear, and most pistols will not stop a charge; even if you have one that has the capability, you have to ask if your capability to use it matches the capability of the caliber to stop a charge - 357s do not.

The plain fact that most folks forget is that big bear weight a lot and carry a lot of protective fat and grizzle. If you get 6-800 lbs charging down on you it isn't going to stop just cause you shot it with a S&W 500. If it is that close it is liable to fall on you, snapping and biting your head off and you are dead long before it is. If you see one at a distance and can run faster than the slowest person in your group, you are golden and can take a broadside shot while he's noshin' on your buddy.

Also, bear do not know when they are dead. It just happens to them all of a sudden and they wake up in bear heaven with lots of slow movin', easy to catch critters to eat. They will never know that you carried a large bore repeating rifle instead of that 357 you were thinkin' about, 'cause that's the only way you can avoid becoming a buffet item in bear heaven.....................JMTCW. Mikey.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:49:40 AM »

Aside from anything grizzley related, yes the .357 mag and .44 mag can pretty much take care of any and all handgunning needs. Would either be my preferance for a do-all chambering? No, for that I'd choose 45 Colt. If I was knowingly venturing into grizzley territory I would grab one of my 45 Colt chambered rugers bit would actually have a quality and appropriatyly chambered rifle as a primary.

Camel 23 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2007, 11:37:50 AM »

I got blood splatter all over my Ruger Alaskan today. I was back-up shooting for a buddy on a bear hunt this morning. The bear fell out of the tree and landed on my foot. When he tried to get up I talked him out of it with a 300gr hard cast. I was using 45 Colt loads in the Alaskan and I guess I was pretty convincing because it never got up. The bear was certainly not a grizzly but a nice 300lb blackie. Had the bear been on the ground and charging, nothing less than a brain shot would have stopped it.

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2007, 11:43:11 AM »

Anyone who "thinks" they can put six in the face of a charging critter needs a HUGE dose of reality to slap them in the face. I've shot a grand total of one critter that was charging me. That one was an approximately 250 boar hog that I dropped with a single shot from a .44 mag between the eyes at a distance of perhaps 15' from my toes. It went down as if pole axed. It was not coming at full speed by any means and it might even be that I was just in the way of where it wanted to go as opposed to it being intentionally coming after me.

The results would have been the same either way I guess. I was on a "dirt bridge" that was the only way a vehicle could cross a creek at that point in the woods and me and the hog met on that dirt bridge. Now either of us could have taken to the water had we wanted to but neither of us did. It was just a pile of dirt over a pipe in the ditch but wasn't all that wide and seemed to add to the urgency of the situation.

Camel 23 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2007, 12:25:05 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on October 07, 2007, 11:43:11 AM

Anyone who "thinks" they can put six in the face of a charging critter needs a HUGE dose of reality to slap them in the face.

I couldn't agree more!

Gene R · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:03:12 PM »

A hog is about the only thing in the lower part of SC that I have to worry about charging me either, unless you count rattlers, cotton mouths, and copper heads, and if they charge some call them rattle headed copper moccasins and they are hard to hit when they are charging as well.

I feel plenty safe with my 45LC, a good pair of snake boots and a little common sense!

corbanzo · « **Reply #16 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:39:49 PM »

I'm wondering why you would want to shoot a charging bear in the face. If you don't stop him, you are just gonna piss him off. Shoot him in the body, shoulder, heart, lungs, spine, something that is going to hurt him bad. I'm not saying it wouldn't hurt to get shot in the face... I'm just saying the percentage chance of stopping a charge with a head shot is ridiculously low.

In my opinion (my Alaskan opinion) thinking you are going to stop a grizz with a .357 is pretty much ridiculous. It's been done with a .44. Many times. I know people who are alive today thanks to their .44 magnum. I know people who carry .357's loaded real heavy for black bears.

I've seen many grizzlies in the wild... none ever charged me, and I have had a .44 mag most of the time, and felt just fine with it. A .357... nope.

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #17 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:55:36 PM »

A guy I talked to once said when he went on an elk hunt in grizzly country the outfitter gave him three lessons to take with them.

1 sleep with you feet at the mouth of the tent because if a grizzly drags you out by the head you're screwed.

2 If a grizzly attacks you, wait until it gets real close and it will stand up on its hind legs, then shoot it in the throat.

3 If you do shoot one and live, bury it deep and never tell anyone.

Although I would like to meet the guy that can just stand there until the bear stands up. Apparently grizzlys have four to six inches of dense fat and a really thick skull so it's difficult to drop one.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2007, 03:03:31 PM »

Anyone who "thinks" they can put six in the face of a charging critter needs a HUGE dose of reality to slap them in the face.

Yeah! I've never been in this situation.....but I've seen the chargin bear on the huntin shows as anyone who has watched a few huntin shows has. You may be able to get all six rounds off.....right before that bear chomps into parts of your body.....'cause if you got all 6 off, I'm bettin not 1 was a hit.

But if you've kept some composure, and you've got one good shot off, that chomp part may never happen.

Dave

mikedb · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2007, 01:55:44 AM »

When we are in grizzly territory (we had one next to our tent this summer in Montana) my family and I carry 44 mags or 45 LCs with heavy hard casts going about 1200 fps. However, our primary defense is bear spray. I did a bit of research over the years due to all the time I play and have worked in bad bear country and it does work more often than shooting. The guns are back up to spray. In camp I keep a 45/70. That is what my son pulled out when the bear came by this summer, while my other son grabbed the spray and I my Redhawk. Fortunately, keeping a clean camp paid off and he left after snorting around and hearing my son's scream "its a bear". Not the best thing to wake up to.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2007, 07:19:47 AM »

Quote from: Camel 23 on October 06, 2007, 11:34:23 PM

Quote from: fatercat on October 06, 2007, 04:46:42 PM
how many of you respondser on this post have anything ever in your face youv'ed had to kill and if any what was your weapon? regards richard

English is not your primary language is it? I killed a mouse with a stick once. It wasn't in my face though, it was on my leg. They are quick little buggers.

Camel23,

that opening line of yours is great!

"English is not your primary language is it?"

what a riot!

ss'

swampthing · « **Reply #21 on:** October 08, 2007, 10:20:31 AM »

It's not funny how unreliable face shots are. Seen boar take 5 slugs to the head "area," the 5th hit the brain and ended the fight were the other 4 that hit the ''face'' just enraged it more! Gun was a 12ga pump shooting 1oz slugs.
For this continent and ranges inside 100yds " I " hunt with my .44mag. My 280g WFN's @1250fps have yet to fail.
300g hard-cast LBT WFN's @1400fps {which is a lite load in my 12" Encore} will harvest any bear, bison, elk, moose that walks, but, so will my 280's.

corbanzo · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2007, 11:00:54 AM »

Quote from: mikedb on October 08, 2007, 01:55:44 AM

The guns are back up to spray.

Hold on bear!! Sorry about the spray, but just wait a minute and stop charging while I pull my gun up on you!! OK, thanks! Gonna shoot now!

There is no back up, there is no second chance. You are talking about one of the fastest sprinting mammals in the world.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2007, 11:13:29 AM »

Well guess the griz ? is settled !
as far as doing other duty , guess it depends on what you want to do .
Take the time to study handgun rounds and where they came from , first a 38 will do most every thing a 22 up to 38 will do . so why a 357 ? well police needed something to pass thru. auto bodies ( the 38 super was already around ) so the 38-44 then the 357 mag. So guess that's covered . then you step up to the 44 mag , you can shoot the 44spl. to fill in between the 357mag and 44 mag . the 454 casul will out distance the 44mag by a good margin and can be down loaded to 44 spl level power so will it do more YEP ! do you need it maybe , say you have a deer hunt planned , you invest lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ would you want the advantage of a flatter shooting gun ? Its your choice I would and use the 454 knowing the 44 will handle most shots but if needed the 454 has the edge ! next 460 S&W flattest of all , 480 Ruger hits harder than 454 with less recoil ( they say ) 500 S&W the big boy , the hammer .
now if you were fishing in bear country and was restricted to a handgun would you want a 44mag or the biggest handgun you could get if you really needed it ? " DO YA FEEL LUCKY ? "
then lets not forget the custom cals , people spend more on them because they have a track record of working !
I have never got social with a griz up close but have been around a few , trust me when i say you have never been alive like you will be when a very large bear is near ! every sense is in over drive !
The pride of ownership and ability to master a big gun can't be over looked either ! many who can't own one or master one will cut down those that can but we all recognize sour grapes when we smell them now don't we !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** October 08, 2007, 11:15:52 AM »

hope the wind is right for the spray !

m-g Willy · « **Reply #25 on:** October 08, 2007, 11:38:50 AM »

I don't think the org. post was really about defending yourself against a griz attack!
I thought the poster was asking if the 357 would handle MOST situations you might encounter with a handgun.
In which case I would guess that the 357 WOULD handle most cases involving a handgun.
From self defence against 2 legged vermin and most four legged critters in the wild.
I'd guess 80% of the deer I killed with the 44 mag.would have went down just as fast with the 357.
But for the other 20% I was glad to have the extra power of the 44.
And as for shooting a charging griz in the face 6 thimes with any handgun --
or waiting for him to stand on his hind legs so you can shoot him in the throat--
Or trying to break him down with a body shot--
or using pepper spray on him--
If any of these options worked by killing him or chaseing him off --it wouldn't much to brag about.
I MYSELF WOULD DROP THE GUN AND PULL MY BOWIE KNIFE AND STEP IN CLOSE AS HE STANDS UPRIGHT AND GUT HIM FROM STEM TO STERN.
The only way to really stop a griz from charging is
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
take away his credit card

I know it's old but what the heck!

Willy

Sverre A. · « **Reply #26 on:** October 08, 2007, 01:18:28 PM »

How tough is a grizzly?
Tougher than a train - or something like an african buffalo?

"I MYSELF WOULD DROP THE GUN AND PULL MY BOWIE KNIFE AND STEP IN CLOSE AS HE STANDS UPRIGHT AND GUT HIM FROM STEM TO STERN."

He- he!

If a grizzley is like a buffalo - I would not use anything smaller than a 454.
And of course - you have to rely on your first shot!!!!!!!

5 or 6 in the head - is Walt Disney

Sverre A. · « **Reply #27 on:** October 08, 2007, 01:35:23 PM »

I want to change my email-adr. in my profile.
How do I do that?

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** October 08, 2007, 06:15:37 PM »

Quote from: Sverre A. on October 08, 2007, 01:35:23 PM

I want to change my email-adr. in my profile.
How do I do that?

Wrong place to be asking really. But click into your profile then select the Account Related Settings option on the left. It will bring up the part of your profile with your e-mail address showing. Just insert the new one and tell it to Change Profile.

Or you can just e-mail me and tell me what you want it changed to and I can do it for you.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2007, 12:05:12 AM »

I MYSELF WOULD DROP THE GUN AND PULL MY BOWIE KNIFE AND STEP IN CLOSE AS HE STANDS UPRIGHT AND GUT HIM FROM STEM TO STERN.

"I MYSELF" is actually incorrect grammar. You should say "I"..would. Because in your statement you are referring to yourself twice. This could confuse a Grizzly and he would never stand up in front of you, thus giving you the chance to "gut him from stem to stern" as he stands before you.

Just wanted to clarify that.

No need to thank me.

Dave.