Author Topic: muzzle brakes... (Read 1445 times)

tiggere · « **on:** October 07, 2007, 10:35:14 AM »

hey guys need some info from those with muzzle brakes on pistol barrels...the 375 JDJ I got definitely needs one for me to shoot it enough to get comfortable hunting with it...I was looking at the JP Recoil Eliminator or one of SSK's muzzle brakes...I really like the looks of the JP and have heard its the most effective in doing its job...does anyone have one (preferrably on the 375 JDJ) and how much did it actually help...are the standard encore barrels "thick" enough to accept most aftermarket brakes?

Eabco charges $175 to install the JP brake...anyone use them (Eabco that is) ? how good is their work...any problems?

SSK (JD Jones) charges $150 for his standard brake (he claims 40% reduction) and I could get him to drill and tap the extra holes for the 6 screw base at the same time...do I actually need a six screw base for the 375 JDJ...3 rings required?

how about recommend a good quality shooting glove...I have gloves but after this weekend I found they were not very good at reducing felt recoil in my hand...which really is the only part that hurt...

doc-and · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2007, 11:46:26 AM »

Check out OTT's "Shark Gill Brake", I don't shoot loudenboomers, so I have no personnel experience with them. But everyone who has put them on their barrels raves about them. The link below is to a short explanation about them

http://www.ottllc.com/brake.html

docand

Ladobe · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2007, 11:54:22 AM »

I've owned four SSK 375JDJ Contender pistol barrels. They did scare most of my hunting pards over the years to the point that none of them would even try shooting them, not even one shot. Horsepucky! The 375JDJ is manageable for even the average shooter with good technique and a trick or two. So I never felt any need for a brake even on these pound lighter than Encore pistols myself. One of my barrels bought used did have a 4-slot MagNaPort, and it was so dang loud that I didn't keep that barrel very long. So my suggestion before you lay out a lot of cash for a brake, if you don't already use them you might try a Pachy Decelerator grip set. Helps considerably with felt recoil on the handcannons and I think they are offered for the Encore frames now. Your technique also has a lot to do with how much recoil is transferred to you with Contender and Encore pistols. So learning how to "roll" with them makes even the big boomers quite enjoyable to shoot even for long range sessions.

You will most definitely want at least 3 rings on your 375JDJ... or even 4 for some scopes. The scopes just need more support on the boomer specialty pistols than they do on rifles. And if it were me I'd also go with a 6 screw base. Those extras coupled with properly mounting the scope goes a long ways toward not replacing scopes due to breakage down the road. Still have all but one of the scopes that were once on my 375JDJ's (sold one barrel w/scope), and all of them are as good as new after thousands of heavy rounds fired while on various handcannons up to a 416 Rigby Encore.

Never used a shooting glove, so can't suggest any of them.

You will love the 375JDJ if you get comfortable with it though. IMO one of the most fun to shoot and hunt with when using TC pistols.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2007, 11:56:47 AM »

The SSK brake will absolutely do three things for you.

1. It will reduce muzzle lift off bags to ZERO.

2. It will reduce twisting in your hand to ZERO.

3. It will transfer ALL as in 100% of that recoil to the palm of your hand.

For me that was worse than the lift and twisting but for you it might not necessarily be. I have a bone spur or calcium deposit or some such thing on the base of my right thumb and after the brake was added it hurt me so much that after just a few shots I wasn't able to shoot again for days due to that knot on my right thumb and the pain from it.

tiggere · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2007, 12:29:59 PM »

hmmm...the recoil to the palm is all that I didn't like...I LOVED the roll twist motion as that's exactly what my Super blackhawk does when I shoot it...I was under the assumption that a MB would reduce the "felt recoil"...meaning in my hand...as it really took a pounding...the muzzle flip/roll really wasn't what I expected it to be...recoil just seemed to come hard into the center/thumb area of the palm...other than that I really enjoyed shooting it the other day...my buddy only shot it 3 times before handing it back...I got 7 downrange before calling it quits...I would have shot more but the trigger is so bad it's not worth wasting ammo until I get a trigger job done...darn thing is so hard that you can't hold it tight enough to pull the trigger without the front of the barrel dipping...

Will definitely look into the pachmayr grips...

Gonna look into a cycling glove that has the gel pads in the palm areas...might help me on two fronts

Grumulkin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:32:11 PM »

This is what brakes do:

1. Depending on the kind you get, part of the muzzle blast is directed at 90 degrees to the barrel so this part of the blast does not push the gun back into your hand. Some actually direct the blast a little rearward and decrease the force to the hand even more.

2. All brakes decrease muzzle rise. Some that are completely circumferential do so because the blast is directed at 90 degrees to the barrel and so isn't available to push the barrel up with your hand as the pivot point. Others have more ports at the top of the barrel than at the bottom and decrease muzzle rise even more.

3. In the stouter cartridges, brakes will not eliminate all muzzle rise or twist but they sure decrease it.

4. Brakes don't make more noise; they just direct more of it at the shooter.

I am not particularly recoil sensitive and could probably shoot just about any handgun or rifle in common sporting chamberings without a brake. That said, a brake makes things nicer and it's easy to get spoiled. They direct more noise toward the shooter but said shooter should wear hearing protection anyway whether the gun is braked or unbraked. Braked Encore barrels I've shot include 7mm/08 (soft recoil), 7mm Rem. Mag. (mild recoil; probably less than a 30/06), 460 S&W Magnum & 500 S&W Magnum. The latter two have stout recoil even with a brake. Without a glove (I've found a weight lifter's glove to work well), the 500 S&W Magnum will take the skin off your hand.

If I were to get a 375 JDJ barrel, it would have a brake; that would make it more enjoyable to shoot. It would have a Leupold variable scope, an SSK Industries 6 screw/4 ring T'SOB base and, since it would be at SSK Industries anyway, I would have them install the brake. I've been quite please with the promptness and quality of the work SSK Industries has done for me.

BobT · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2007, 05:19:08 PM »

I would use at least three rings and either a Weaver modified for 6 screws or better yet the T'SOB from SSK. Past makes a pretty good shooting glove for hand gunners. Brakes are said to reduce recoil, I think what they do is redirect some of the recoil energy reducing perceived recoil. The muzzle blast is redirected in the same way , not more noise just sounds louder because the sound is being directed more towards the shooter. I have only one barrel with a brake and that one is a .45/70 with a muzzle tamer. Like Greybeard said the recoil energy is transferred to the palm of your hand pretty much straight back. Just my take on things!

Bob

Grumulkin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 08, 2007, 01:07:59 AM »

Quote

Brakes are said to reduce recoil, I think what they do is redirect some of the recoil energy reducing perceived recoil.

That, of course, is true.

There are 2 sources of gun recoil. One is from the velocity and weight of the bullet. A brake can't do anything about that. A bullet exiting the barrel at a certain speed will always be associated with a force vector in the opposite direction.

The other source of gun recoil is from the gases of powder ignition exiting the barrel. These gases also have mass and velocity. This is where brakes come in. They redirect some of the muzzle blast/gases so their force vectors are other than straight back into the hand. Actually, since the barrel of a handgun is above the axis of the hand, the force isn't directed straight back to the hand but actually somewhat above but towards the hand. The hand then serves as a pivot point as the barrel flips up.

tiggere · « **Reply #8 on:** October 08, 2007, 02:10:43 AM »

well as it is an exotic caliber for me I was going to trick it out with the JP brake...they claim almost 100% recoil reduction...where the SSK claims only 40%...here's the link for those that want to see it...based on what they say it should reduce the felt recoil in the hand because its "pushing" the gun forward with the gasses...meaning it should reduce the hand pain...along with some new grips and a new shooting glove...

http://www.eabco.com/cssmb.html

The main site is www.jprifles.com ...there are videos showing it in action along with a guy shooting a full auto M14 with one hand (pistol grip) only...

Now one other thing...the forearm doesn't quite fit on the 375 JDJ the way it does on my 7mm-08...its alot farther forward on the handcanon...possibly drilled wrong from the factory? I'll try to get a picture of it this afternoon...

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2007, 02:17:36 AM »

Surely you're smarter than to believe anything can reduce recoil by 100% or anything near that. Really brakes do very little to "reduce recoil" they merely change the vector of it. They can and do an excellent job of reducing muzzle lift and stopping the twisting that accompanies heavy handgun recoil but the reduction has to be redirected somewhere and that somewhere is right into the web of your hand.

tiggere · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2007, 05:20:57 AM »

Oh yes I am smarter than that...hence the word claim...where I was going with it was the "exotic look"...what I obviously am not smart enough to understand is your thoughts on a muzzle brake that redirects gas out to the side having no effect on reducing felt recoil...I don't see any possible way that it could not reduce some of the recoil as its not all being directed out of the front..."every action has an equal and opposite reaction"...therefore redirecting the gasses out to the side against a baffle would "push" the gun forward...slightly reducing the reaction coming out of the front thereby reducing the recoil in the opposite direction...

I have been wrong before...and I am sure I will be wrong again...just looking for some clarification...

Keith L · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2007, 05:52:31 AM »

My experience with brakes is limited to one barrel, and it really didn't need it (12 inch 7-30 Waters). I like the fact that the muzzle flip is much less than my other rifle round barrels, and I would guess that there may actually be less felt recoil. Perhaps if you could direct all the gas in the opposite direction from the recoil, in other words straight back at the shooter, you would get substantial reduction in felt recoil. In the case of big boomers by reducing muxxle flip that takes some of the energy from the recoil and moves it in another direction I can see how the straight back recoil would increase felt recoil.

That is most likely a poor job of explaining this. Maybe others can do better.

jhalcott · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2007, 08:05:24 AM »

I have a 358JDJ and due to arthritis and carpal tunnel I could NOT shoot it. I had a VAIS(sp) break installed and have used it to take a couple more deer. I MUST wear ear protection when shooting this gun,but we should all wear protection when shooting.! The break I have is a series of holes arranged around the muzzle. They redirect the blast back and around the muzzle. Softening the rise and twisting of the gun. A caution about shooting low to the ground is in order. Any sand loose dirt or leaves can be blown into the air at the shot,often startling the shooter. Would I do it again? In a heart beat!

KYODE · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2007, 10:02:20 AM »

this 300 win mag has the OTT shark gill removable brake. i think it is the one actually pictured on the ott website link previously posted. jmo....but it looks a lot better than the JP too.
there is very little recoil into the hand at all, i promise. muzzle rise is also very little. only makes a slight jump. anyone could shoot it all day long if they wanted, or could afford it....lol. recoil reduction is amazing to say the least.

Lone Star · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2007, 12:17:41 PM »

Quote

Surely you're smarter than to believe anything can reduce recoil by 100% or anything near that.

"Smarter"? Actually, in some cartridges this is possible to reduce the actual force the shooter feels....if the momentum/energy of the powder is large compared to that of the bullet. A .50 BMG is one (230 grains of powder at 4500 fps versus a 700-grain bullet at 2700 fps) and the .257 STW (85 grains of powder at ca. 4500 fps versus a 75-grain bullet at 3800 fps) - do the math. A .22 Hornet with 10 grains of powder and a 55-grain bullet is not a good candidate for an effective brake.

A 24# .50 BMG had its recoil energy reduced by over 81% with a good clamshell brake. The recoil momentum reduction was much less, closer to 50% (1992 Precision Shooting Annual - Volume 2, pg. 195).

Certainly for most hunting handguns and brakes the recoil reduction is much less. Still, a 25% to 40% in recoil energy into the hand is certainly possible with some loadings - the .300 Win Mag comes to mind.

.

358jdj · « **Reply #15 on:** October 09, 2007, 03:11:02 AM »

And, lets not forget about the energy a muzzle brake directs down, into the bag. That energy is absorbed by the rest, not through felt muzzle flip, twist or directed backward into the hand. It is lost.

tiggere · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2007, 09:36:41 AM »

Well I sent it off yesterday...after talking on the phone with a couple Mfg's mentioned here I decided to go with the JP Recoil Eliminator...the baffle designed brakes from what I can gather seem to be more effective in recoil reduction that the ported style brakes...this may be where Graybeard is coming from...those without baffles would primarily reduce twist and muzzle rise...where the baffled brakes actually "push" the gun forward with the redirected gasses as they come into contact with the baffles therefore reducing rearward force...also getting it drilled and tapped for the 6 hole mount and they will install the mount and three rings before sending it back...

I got real lucky on the install too as they only put the brakes on in batches...mine will go with the batch they are running now so should only be gone a couple weeks vs. 6-8 weeks...I'll get some pictures when its done and give a good report on how well it does vs. how the mfg says it will do...

tiggere · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:52:47 PM »

WOW...EABCO just got my barrel today and already its being threaded for the brake...I was told it was going to be drilled and tapped tomorrow with a few others for the 6 screw scope mount and be back in the mail by the middle of next week...that is one heck of a turn around time...if the quality of the work matches the promptness of service I should be in good shape...seeing as how JP Rifles recommended them I think it should be good quality workmanship...I'll get some pictures up next week...

kennisondan · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2007, 03:13:54 PM »

that is good to know about eabco...
anxious to know what your experience will bring to the reporting table.
having shot it before and after will be really great comparison
dk

tiggere · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2007, 10:39:15 AM »

Well I got home from vacation and there sat my barrel...brake and scope mount (6 hole) installed and returned in a week...looks like they did a damn good job also...the brake seems to be timed perfect and all the screws in the scope mount were solid...can't wait to get out this weekend and see how she handles now...I also put some rubber washers between the forearm and the barrel when I attached the forearm...I used the rubber bands that came with my mechanical broadheads (Wasp Jackhammers)...looks more like an O-ring than a rubber band...anyhow...here's some pics...only thing that is really bothering me now is the look of the 15" barrel with that stubby forearm...just looks retarded...even the wife noticed when she saw it last night...so you know it must look weird

kennisondan · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2007, 11:37:15 AM »

I bet the forearm grows on you.. how it shoots will help that perception greatly... It certainly looks to be a shooter... keep us posted .. I like it a lot...
dk

Keith L · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2007, 12:24:49 PM »

I like the way it looks, short forearm and all. What am I seeing in the bottom picture? Is it the brake from the muzzle? If so am I seeing a flat on the bottom of the brake? It isn't apparent from the side view.

Thanks!

tiggere · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2007, 12:48:41 PM »

yes that's the brake from the muzzle...its cut narrower at the top than it is at the bottom and slightly flared up so dust is not a problem when shooting from the ground...the "flat" that you are seeing is just the cylindrical shape laying on a piece of paper...the flash has blended the colors so well that you cannot see the shadow of the curve...kinda hoping the red dot will hold up...I had a spare Bushnell trophy laying around so thought I would try it out...its going to be a 100 yard or less gun anyhow so the red dot is the best choice IMO...I have one on my turkey gun and its held up pretty well to 3 1/2" magnums so thought it might work...

My wife said it looked like I tried to "pimp it out"...she doesn't like the looks of the brake or that retarded little forearm...every time she sees it she giggles and points...I told her she was going to have to shoot it a couple of times...then lets see how much giggling she does...

Keith L · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2007, 01:11:52 PM »

Let us know how it works out. Reminds me of brakes I saw years ago on the muzzle of a cannon on a tank. I expect they need the brake effect on them more than about anywhere else.

I know I don't have the effect your wife does (and I shouldn't) , but I like the look.

tiggere · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2007, 09:00:04 AM »

Well I finally made it out to shoot the hand-cannon today with its new JP Brake on it...to describe it in one word...SPECTACULAR !!!...it now has less recoil than my .44 Super Blackhawk and is an absolute pleasure to shoot...it doesn't remove all the recoil but it darn sure takes the vast majority of it (guessing around 80%)...there is also a little muzzle flip still there but you can still stay on target when looking through a red dot sight...as a matter of fact the 7mm-08 Encore barrel I have has more recoil now than the 375 JDJ...

If someone is recoil sensitive and has a 375 JDJ I would HIGHLY recommend a JP Recoil Eliminator...