Author Topic: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation  (Read 756 times)

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Offline Redhawk1

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The GOA has done more to contribute to anti-gun legislation that Sarah Brady, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, John Kerry, and Charles Schumer than we could have expected from them.  They've managed to turn gun owners against other gun owners without giving you a penny in return for you investment other than a lot of cheap lip service.  This is a group of left nuts with no plans for the future and from the sounds I keep hearing from they, they're simply yahoo illiterate rednecks or they're anti-gun zealots wearing camo.

Now if I'm wrong on any of those points, just tell me which ones and what the GOA has done.

There are people on the far far left, who most people consider to be wackos. Like wise there are people on the far far right that most people consider to be wackos. Most people are varying degrees in between all the way up to a middle. If you divided the entire group into 3 equal segments it's the middle third that contains the most Americans by far. This middle third has people in it that can on certain issues and based on the facts change their minds and go either way on an issue. Often whether they will go on way or another is a matter of degrees leading to a compromise. It is through this compromise and varying degrees that things get accomplished in politics. The point being, if you hitch your horse to a wagon and refuse to compromise you will seldom win nor be happy with the outcome of any endeavor. It is in fact, this ability to work together and to compromise for the common good that makes America work.  My point being that most people whether left or right who take the position "my way or the highway" spend most of their lives on the highway. The vast majority of Americans do not agree that the 2nd Adm means the unrestricted right of anyone at anytime to own and possess a firearm. Nor do the vast majority of Americans believe that the 2nd Adm means that only a Militia or National guard etc, have the right to own firearms. The law will be and always has been just like everything else somewhere in the middle and rightfully so since that is where the majority of Americans are.

The most discouraging thing I see in politics today is the willingness by people and organizations to flat out lie about a statute or law in order to use fear to get it passed or not passed. My main wish would be that people and sadly politicians themselves actually take the time to read the actual statute before succumbing to fear mongering from one side or the other.

 The Second Amendment Foundation
Alan Gottlieb (http://www.sweetliberty.org/mof.htm), you will see that this gentleman is a convicted felon who served 10 years in federal prison.  Well, perhaps felons should be able to show some rehabilitation and regain their Constitutional rights.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 01:48:21 PM »
Some more on the GOA,
Larry Pratt: In the 1996 U.S. presidential election, Pratt served as a co-chairman of Pat Buchanan's campaign. In February 1996, the liberal Center for Public Integrity issued a report that claimed Pratt spoke at meetings organized by white supremacist and militia leaders.  He was a contributing editor to a periodical of the anti-Semitic United Sovereigns of America, and that his GOA had donated money to a white supremacist attorney's group.  Now YOU tell me what Larry Pratt is or isn't or pretends to be.

That speech has since come back to haunt Larry Pratt, since it was part of an Estes Park, Colorado, gathering that was essentially a "Who's Who" of racists in America. Organized by Pete Peters, leader in the white supremacist religious sect Christian Identity, attendees in addition to Pratt included Richard Butler, head of Aryan Nations, former KKK leader Louis Beam, and Kirk Lyons, attorney to many racist groups and founder of CAUSE, an organization that is essentially a legal defense fund for racists in Canada, Australia, the United States, South Africa and Europe. This was not Pratt's only tie with racists: he has appeared on Pete Peters' television show; has addressed a Christian Identity gathering in Branson, Missouri; and the GOA's "charitable wing," the Gun Owners Foundation, has given money to CAUSE.

The reason I posted all of this was not to rehash old NRA, GOA debates but to point out to you all about the GOA and Second Amendment Foundation.
I was told to do some research by a lot of Anti-NRA people here and I did.  Now I know I will not send a dime to the GOA....
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 05:47:19 PM »
Had you said the NRA had done that you'd have been correct. But as to the GOA you haven't a clue and are just doing your best to turn folks against the only organization actually doing something FOR rather than TO gun owners.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline jh45gun

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 08:47:18 PM »
RedHawk please post links of the sources of your info. I am not doubting you but I am sure others will.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 01:06:05 AM »
jh45gun, it is very easy to get information, just google Larry Pratt

http://www.livingston.net/wilkyjr/link17.htm
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=365

Graybeard, I know in my other post you seem up set with me, but you and a few other here put down the NRA and told me to do my homework as see what the GOA was all about. I have and I thought you were open minded enough to see the truth also.

The GOA has done a good job of turning gun owner agents gun owner as it has been shown here in many NRA threads. All one has to do is look up the people associated with the GOA and they can get the information as I have. Google is a great tool, and before someone blindly supports a gun rights group, they should do there homework as I have.
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Offline Almtnman

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 01:53:44 AM »
And all the ones that get upset about your post here only has to look at your signature file here and know why you're posting these posts.
AMM
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 02:15:57 AM »
And all the ones that get upset about your post here only has to look at your signature file here and know why you're posting these posts.

All you have to do is search for yourself and read the information. These are sites not assocated with the NRA at all.
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Offline Almtnman

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 03:20:27 AM »
I did a search and found this letter from the GOA....

It may be a cliche, but it is true: This letter is written not in anger, but in sorrow and concern. It is written to our friends about NRA staff who, tragically, have taken a course which, we believe, would be disastrous for the Second Amendment and the pro-gun movement.

Two of us are Life Members of the NRA -- one of whom was an NRA board member for over ten years. And our legislative counsel was a paid consultant for the NRA.

So we certainly have no animus against the NRA staff, much less our wonderful friends who are NRA members.

In fact, over the last thirty years, GOA and its staff have worked with NRA to facilitate most of our pro-gun victories -- from McClure-Volkmer to the death of post-Columbine gun control to a gun liability bill free of anti-gun "killer amendments."

But those who staff the NRA, without consulting the membership, have now made a series of strange and dangerous alliances with the likes of Chuck Schumer, Carolyn McCarthy, and Pat Leahy. And we believe that, if allowed to continue, this will produce anti-gun policies which the NRA staff will bitterly regret.

Christ said, in the Sermon on the Mount, that "by their fruits, ye shall know them." And, frankly, these fruits are not likely to produce much pro-gun legislation.

Substantively, the Leahy/McCarthy/Schumer bill, which NRA's staff has vigorously supported without consulting with its membership, would rubber-stamp the illegal and non-statutory BATFE regulations which have already been used to strip gun rights from 110,000 veterans. It would also allow an anti-gun administration to turn over Americans' most private medical records to the federal instant check system without a court order.

But perhaps even worse, the bill was hatched in secret, without hearings or testimony, and passed out of the House without even a roll call. And now, the sponsors are trying to do the same thing in the Senate -- in an effort to ram the bill through without votes or floor debate, led by anti-gun Senator Chuck Schumer. If it is good legislation, as its proponents claim, why such fears of a roll call vote or debate in committee?

Indeed, in the face of horrific dissent from the NRA's own membership, its staff has tragically ignored arguments and dug in its heels -- in an almost "because-we-say-so" attitude.

Understand this:

* Passage of McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer will not quell the calls for gun control. To the contrary, it will embolden our enemies to push for the abolition of even more of our Second Amendment rights. Already, the Brady Campaign has indicated its intent to follow up this "victory" with a push for an effective ban on gun shows.

* Passage of McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer will not be viewed as an "NRA victory." To the contrary, once the liberal media has used the NRA staff for its purposes, it will throw them away like a used Kleenex.
Already, an over-confident press is crowing that this is the "first major gun control measure in over a decade."

* Taking the BATFE's horrifically expansive unlawful regulations dealing with veterans' loss of gun rights and making them unchangeable congressionally-endorsed statutory law is NOT "maintaining the status quo."

* We are told that the McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer bill should be passed because it contains special provisions to allow persons prohibited from owning guns to get their rights restored. But there is already such a provision in the law; it is 18 U.S.C. 925©. And the reason why no one has been able to get their rights restored under CURRENT LAW is that funds for the system have been blocked by Chuck Schumer.
It is no favor to gun owners for Chuck Schumer -- the man who has blocked funding for McClure-Volkmer's "relief from disability" provisions for 15 years -- to now offer to give us back a tepid version of the provisions of current law which he has tried so hard to destroy.

Finally, there is the cost, which ranges from $1 billion in the cheapest draft to $5 billion -- to one bill which places no limits whatsoever on spending. Thus, we would be drastically increasing funding for gun control -- at a time when BATFE, which has done so much damage to the Second Amendment, should be punished, rather than rewarded.

We would now respectfully ask the NRA staff to step back from a battle with its membership -- and to join with us in opposing McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer gun control, rather than supporting it.

And, to our friends and NRA members, we would ask that you take this letter and pass it on to your friends and colleagues.

Sincerely,


Senator H.L. "Bill" Richardson (ret.)
Founder and Chairman

Larry Pratt
Executive Director

Michael E. Hammond
Legislative Counsel

And then this bit of info......

Now it gets real interesting about how you get your name off of the list.  It comes under USC title 18 part 1 925©. 

USC Title 18

Here's where it gets difficult.

"and the Attorney General may grant such relief if it is established to his satisfaction that the circumstances regarding the disability, and the applicant’s record and reputation, are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest"

Note the, MAY, not WILL.  Note, HIS SATISFACTION, no requirement to grant.

Here's where it gets even sticker
.

"Any person whose application for relief from disabilities is denied by the Attorney General may file a petition with the United States district court for the district in which he resides for a judicial review of such denial. The court may in its discretion admit additional evidence where failure to do so would result in a miscarriage of justice."

Note that he MAY, at his own expense, file a petition for judicial review.  Note that the court MAY allow additional evidence, not has to, not will, but MAY.

Even if he does get relief his name is still on the data base.  It is just that the relief information is published, in the Federal Register, with the reason why the relief was granted.  Now all of his information is public record.


"Whenever the Attorney General grants relief to any person pursuant to this section he shall promptly publish in the Federal Register notice of such action, together with the reasons therefor. "

The idea of a way to get peoples names off the list is good but this is a lousy, expensive, and downright stupid way.
AMM
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 05:40:21 AM »
I see that letter was signed by Larry Pratt, again a very controversial person that is GOA. Do some research on Larry Pratt and see what he stands for. Sorry I don't support anyone that supports racists groups as he has. That is where your money goes when you sent it to the GOA, not gun rights issues.

I have taken all the anti-NRA bashing here at Graybeard, but now it is time you all see what the GOA is all about. They support bashing the NRA, but in the same token, the NRA has not stooped to a low and bashed the GOA.
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Offline Almtnman

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 06:13:38 AM »
Redhawk1, I don't think I have bashed the NRA. I will say this; when the NRA endorses a gun bill that is sponsored by two of the most anti-gun people I know of, Chuck Schumer and Carolyn McCarthy, it makes me question them, have they really did their homework. Those two are notorious for chipping away a little here and a little there until they get it to where our gun rights have evaporated.

Somewhere along the way people have to make a stand and say, enough is enough. It's all about where one wants to make a stand for our gun rights, not about bashing an organization. I reached that point on this bill. Maybe other people have a point somewhere out further that they will make their stand.

AMM
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Offline jh45gun

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 06:18:28 AM »
Not a big fan of white supremacist   so if he is mixed up with them I could not see supporting them. Fringe groups are normally not a good thing.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 06:29:58 AM »
Redhawk1, I don't think I have bashed the NRA. I will say this; when the NRA endorses a gun bill that is sponsored by two of the most anti-gun people I know of, Chuck Schumer and Carolyn McCarthy, it makes me question them, have they really did their homework. Those two are notorious for chipping away a little here and a little there until they get it to where our gun rights have evaporated.

Somewhere along the way people have to make a stand and say, enough is enough. It's all about where one wants to make a stand for our gun rights, not about bashing an organization. I reached that point on this bill. Maybe other people have a point somewhere out further that they will make their stand.



I did not see anywhere you bashed the NRA and thank you for that. If you do some digging you will see that the NRA supports the bill because it does not change the existing law we already have. A person that has been found to not be of sound mind and has been determined mentaly unstable should not own guns.  I agree with that. Read the bill carrfully and you will see, even thought Chuck Schumer and Carolyn McCarthy sponsor the bill, does not make it bad. Sure these people are to the extream left, but the bill in itself is not bad.
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Offline Almtnman

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 06:50:42 AM »
I did a Google search of Larry Pratt and after about 6 or 7 search pages didn't come up with anything making a connection to anything other than gun rights stuff.
AMM
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Offline Redhawk1

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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Some more info about the GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2007, 07:52:46 AM »
Almtnman, why don't you cut and paste me something the GOA has done rather than issue press releases and raise money. Go to their site and look at the federal court opinion involving the DC ban. Who do you see filing a friend of the court brief and supplying lawyers and money. The NRA that's who. I don't see GOA's name on that court opinion. The GOA has donated to lawyers but the problem is the donation was made to "CAUSE" a group of lawyers that represent racists.
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