Author Topic: Fred Thompson, Ron Paul comparison (Read 4600 times)

ncsurveyor · « **Reply #30 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:35:00 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on October 09, 2007, 10:49:44 AM

We should all keep in mind though..any of the Republicans that get the final nod, even if it were Ron Paul ...would be miles ahead of the best the Democrats can offer !

True.

I can see everyone's concern and reasons for reform or change. The fervor a lot of people put into supporting idealists is not misplaced, but in the current system, the time to expend this energy is not right before the election, hell it took us decades to get into this mess.

If you want Ron Paul(esq) type of leadership/government, you may want to cut your losses on this election with the lessor of evils theory, and keep up your energy for the next one. If you can't ride your tide that long, than maybe you need to surf something else?

You say the problem is complacency? Believe me, you are not going to get enough bandwagon jumpers with just a year of effort. If the people don't want to hear it in the interim between elections, than your cause is hopeless and only something catastrophic will change things. The system is too far entrenched.

I'd be curious, after the nomination, if Paul decides to screw things up with a third party candidacy.
I'd also be curious, after the election, where you all are placing your political effort.

Remember, the best time to build a dam isn't when its raining. Sadly, after a lot of thinking and studying, this is what I've come up with.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #31 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:54:36 AM »

It seems some one has convinced most to vote for someone other than a Dem or Rep. is to throw away your vote , they have done a real bang up job too !
that may be true but if it ever starts it won't take long to take hold and a new party could take over or force the old ones to straighten up !
yea i know its a wild dream !

ironglow · « **Reply #32 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:57:22 AM »

   Well spoken, ncsurveyor !

   Perhaps with a bit of practice communicating with the WHOLE public, and voicing a bit more concern for traditional values, along with polishing his message..perhaps in another 4 years RP could be a competitor.

  One hint to him..One cannot successfully run for national office by just being AGAINST everything..you must be FOR something !

   The Taoist Ying/Yang folks will tell you that !...LOL..Many others will also..

   Going 3rd party would be a mistake for him; how many people that have bolted the mainstream and went off on the third party
   tangent have ever been able to come back into prominence ?

   Just take a look; Geo Wallace, Anderson, Ross Peralt (sp?), Nader, Buchanan...where are they now, politically ?

   Your statement about not "building a dam while it's raining", may have answered my above question about why Hunter and Huckabee have not been better recieved.

ncsurveyor · « **Reply #33 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:30:33 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 10, 2007, 01:54:36 AM

It seems some one has convinced most to vote for someone other than a Dem or Rep. is to throw away your vote , they have done a real bang up job too !
that may be true but if it ever starts it won't take long to take hold and a new party could take over or force the old ones to straighten up !
yea i know its a wild dream !

I agree, someone did a bang up job, but its not an unsubstantiated opinion.

Frankly, do you think that the winner or loser in the election gives a rat fat fanny other than if they won or lost? Sure the loser can cry if they had the third party vote they could have won, so they either work on their position to gather this next time OR they disappear. As ironglow said, where are all the third party people now?

Some people (perhaps a majority of the public) perceive a third party vote as people making a statement, not much different than goth dressing kids, and spiked mohawks. "Sure its different, but what's it going to change?"

The reformist and idealists only rear their heads with any serious attempt at public support every four years, and give people that are frustrated a chance to show their dissapproval. They won't get elected. And after the election they spout and spit, and fade away like MacArthur.

Hillary's been building her empire for years. You can't deny this token senate position was anything else?

Now, everyone that feels 100% committed to Ron Paul or anyone else better realize this. Start thinking of 2012. If your worried about things before then, than start stocking up on MRE's and potable water, but you are pissing into the wind thinking that hipshooting an ideal as grand as these is going to get anywhere against a public that is hellbent on NOT changing.

Please consider that my generalities on the public, the people, etc takes into account the other 19 out of 20 people that don't own guns, the other 10 out of 20 that aren't conservative, the countless souls that are atheists or agnostics, and a whole bunch of people that just don't care.

You want to sell it? Sell it during the down time. In times of stress people will always respond by reflex. Elections are no different. They are going to vote what they feel is safe. If your going to change that, you won't do it quickly. And in the grand scheme of things, a year of exposure just isn't going to cut it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #34 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:54:55 AM »

Ironglow , what you said is true , that's why i said wild dream , but the list of losses we have endured from our govt. is getting long . The idea of right and wrong are so distorted one can't understand how we as a people can be so far off base . We allow ourselves to be lead down a road of ignorance , the dumbing down of America !
Our laws are based on the Bible yet we are to obey laws that restrict its mention or presence in public because it might offend , yet gays can and do stick their lifestyle in our faces everyday something i find offensive . i won't get started on the abuse the laws of our country have seen or the disregard for both law and common sense we have witnessed with regard to illegals !
When i hear the phrase politically correct , i brace for the next loss of freedom that is sure to follow !
as far as Fred or Ron , at best you are looking at a vice pres. maybe !

ironglow · « **Reply #35 on:** October 10, 2007, 04:46:38 AM »

Shootall;

I agree with your summation and I am sure you know exactly what I am referring to when I say " Welcome to the culture war".

gypsyman · « **Reply #36 on:** October 10, 2007, 12:12:36 PM »

Although I think Ron Paul has some good idea's, if he were to get the nomination, I believe the Democrats would tear him up in the home stretch. He wants to abolish,IRS,BATF,FBI. And I'm not saying I disagree with some of that. But you have to remember that whoever runs has to appeal to a vast number of voters. And alot of voters would think that he is a fringe politician, just the opposite of a Polosy or Kucinich. Fred seems more mainstream conservative, might just appeal to a greater number of voters. And for anybody that thinks he's just an actor, I belive Reagan did a pretty good job as pres. Matter of fact, I think he was a better politician than an actor. Still havn't made my mind up yet, too long to go before E-Day. gypsyman

Swampman · « **Reply #37 on:** October 10, 2007, 12:31:26 PM »

I just got back in the house. I was installing my Fred stickers on the family cars.

gypsyman · « **Reply #38 on:** October 10, 2007, 04:53:04 PM »

Forgot to mention this in the first post. When I was talking with the Ron Paul volunteers at last weeks gun show, I mentioned that I was checking out Tom Tancredo. The Ron Paul volunteer said in an interview, Ron Paul was asked who would he vote for if he wasn't running, he answered Tom Tancredo. Interesting?? gypsyman

Casull · « **Reply #39 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:07:17 PM »

It took me a lot of years to realize, there is NO lesser of two evils! Evil is simply evil.
Ron Paul is the only decent person in the race, and because of that he has NO chance of winning the office.
If Hillary should be the next commander in thief, it will be because the GOP has chosen one of the losers to run against her.
Look at the voting records of these vermin and you will see little differences in the two parties. They talk a little different, but vote the same. Ron Paul is the ONLY one running, that votes the constitution. Google it up, and see for yourself. So! We the Sheeple of this once REPUBLIC, will see either Hillary, Obama, Romney, or Gagliani as our next so called leader, and it won't make a nickels worth of difference who it is!

Quote

Man, I am truly getting sick of this "lesser of two evils/evil is evil" BS. I don't see Fred Thompson as the lesser of two evils. I also don't see any of the other Republican's running as evil. Do I agree with most of what Guilianni says? Hell no. Would I vote for him over any of the dem's? Hell yes. I do see Hitlary as evil. You myopic Ron Paul guys think he is the end all, be all. What he may likely be is the guy that puts Hitlary in the President's seat. But, you guys can just get pissy, take your ball and go home if RP doesn't get the nomination. Just remember, you will be responsible for another Klinton presidency.

jh45gun · « **Reply #40 on:** October 10, 2007, 07:00:55 PM »

Quote

Man, I am truly getting sick of this "lesser of two evils/evil is evil" BS. I don't see Fred Thompson as the lesser of two evils. I also don't see any of the other Republican's running as evil. Do I agree with most of what Guilianni says? Hell no. Would I vote for him over any of the dem's? Hell yes. I do see Hitlary as evil. You myopic Ron Paul guys think he is the end all, be all. What he may likely be is the guy that puts Hitlary in the President's seat. But, you guys can just get pissy, take your ball and go home if RP doesn't get the nomination. Just remember, you will be responsible for another Klinton presidency.

Good Post!!

williamlayton · « **Reply #41 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:08:53 PM »

Well, it seems the RPer's are still trying to convince theirownselves that Ron is the only salvation this country has.
I disagree.
I think that this country has NO candidate that has the strength of character---well, that is probably not the case with Hillary, because she is a real character in her own mind---too guide this country in the way Ron thinks---not even Ron.
Ron is not a great thinker. He wishes for a time that --in his mind--existed. I don't think it ever existed except in his mind.
Fred looks like a good candidate--and maybe he is the real deal---who knows who really writes his scripts.
That is the real problem---no one knows who is the real guiding force behind the actor up front---that includes all of em boys.
Blessings

nw_hunter · « **Reply #42 on:** October 11, 2007, 08:45:35 PM »

Nothing wrong with my vision! "Well" Tired and a little old I guess.
Most Republicans and Democrats have chosen sides and would vote for their party lackey if he, or she were Satan himself, just to keep the other out of office. And if Witch Hillary is elected, it will be the fault of the GOP for running scoundrels against her, and not honest patriotic followers of the Constitution.......Yes! like RP.

Most! won't take the time to check out the voting records of our elected leaders, and will rely on FAUX (FOX) News and the other Liberal news networks (CNN, ABC, CBS, PBS to bring them the stories they want to hear.

So go ahead and blame me, and other seekers of truth, if your favorite lackey loses to the other side.
I DON"T CARE!

Swampman · « **Reply #43 on:** October 12, 2007, 12:08:56 AM »

You might want to start selling of your guns, if you don't care that is.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #44 on:** October 12, 2007, 02:14:16 AM »

I can see now why the right has such a hard time . They have to please people just a bit right of left all the way to hell fire and brimstone right and that's a hard row to hoe !
the jackasses (Democrats ) only need to be a little left and are good to go !
the right has to have it all at one time ( fix it right now ) . the JA's pick away a bit at a time ! ( we want to just talk ) .
So the right better be willing to debate and agree on what the party stands for or we will have no chance , you will have some evil but one must be sure to get more good !
the reality is that there is a block of voters in the middle that for a lack of a better word are swayed back and forth right to left and back , they are the group that elects the pres. . they change with the times , so if we go full right we will loose that block of voters and loose all our ideals , but with comprise we can achieve many ideals if not all .
The JA's know that an ideal lost is a ideal lost for ever , and they will accept taking them one at a time for in the end they will win . Remember change that happens slow happens un- noticed !

Dee · « **Reply #45 on:** October 12, 2007, 03:36:59 AM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on October 09, 2007, 08:52:18 PM

It took me a lot of years to realize, there is NO lesser of two evils! Evil is simply evil.
Ron Paul is the only decent person in the race, and because of that he has NO chance of winning the office.
If Hillary should be the next commander in thief, it will be because the GOP has chosen one of the losers to run against her.
Look at the voting records of these vermin and you will see little differences in the two parties. They talk a little different, but vote the same. Ron Paul is the ONLY one running, that votes the constitution. Google it up, and see for yourself. So! We the Sheeple of this once REPUBLIC, will see either Hillary, Obama, Romney, or Gagliani as our next so called leader, and it won't make a nickels worth of difference who it is!

EXACTLY!

magooch · « **Reply #46 on:** October 12, 2007, 04:29:04 AM »

I just watched Ron Paul on C-span. He didn't say anything crazy, or act nutty, so that was good. He actually sounded like a guy who is down to earth and has common sense. The problem is that he didn't say anything profound. For someone to come out of the woods and try to get elected President of a country like this, he is going to have to get noticed.

As I see it, someone like Hitlary can say anything, even outrageous crap and she gets attention, but if someone like Ron Paul says anything that is slightly controversial, he is either ignored, or blown off as another nut job. That is the hurdle that wantabees have to find a way over. If Ron Paul is going to be anything but an also-ran, he has got to come up with something that will catch people's attention.

I'd like to see him say, no more immigration and no freebies for non-citizens. Oh, and throw in some tax cuts and a balanced budget, based on spending cuts.

Heavy C · « **Reply #47 on:** October 12, 2007, 04:46:38 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on October 12, 2007, 04:11:19 AM

I don't think the vast undecided non party voters, and the newly activated under 25 voters are going to vote for, or even come out, for a repub candidate that represents the same old tired rhetoric and cliques, thus assuring a setup and win for Hillary. Hillary has enough 'contrast' with these empty suits to win. The only repub candidate with enough contrast thus hopefully ensuring some change towards good is RP. This time putting up bigmouth empty suits mainstreamers won't cut it and only put stealthy Hillary in office. After all, she is the Bush's first choice and will continue the 'program'.

...TM7

That would be disastrous! From a personal point of view it would be a double whammy for me. Along with affecting my rights as a gun owner like all of you she has already promised to kill my livelyhood. I work in the student loan industry, specifically the Federal Family Education Loan Program. There was an article this morning stating she would kill the program in favor of the Federal Direct Loan Program started by none other than slick Willy himself back in 1993. That program never gained traction and now they have every intention to force feed to students, their families, and every school in the nation. So what, you might say. Well FFELP utilizes money from the private sector. As such we are able to provide students with discounts and incentives to help them pay back their student loan. This is good because the fewer loan defaults we have the better off we are as tax payers. In the Direct program the loans are funded by the Feds and there are no benefits or incentives. The program already has service issues and a higher default rate which in turn is a cost passed on to you and me.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Dee · « **Reply #48 on:** October 12, 2007, 07:26:27 AM »

Well magooch he has "already" said all that, and more.

jh45gun · « **Reply #49 on:** October 12, 2007, 08:46:37 AM »

TM7 whats with your conspiracy crap all the time. Now your Telling us the Hillary is GWB's first choice?

?? What a laugh!

ironglow · « **Reply #50 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:57:44 AM »

UHHHH...I don't see any place in the constitution where the seated president gets to appoint those who may run to succeed him .

If someone can find it there..please, point it out for us !

jh45gun · « **Reply #51 on:** October 12, 2007, 12:53:07 PM »

Quote

You're the one seeing conspiracies...

You moderate the forum I don't!

nomosendero · « **Reply #52 on:** October 12, 2007, 02:59:06 PM »

Quote from: gypsyman on October 10, 2007, 04:53:04 PM

Forgot to mention this in the first post. When I was talking with the Ron Paul volunteers at last weeks gun show, I mentioned that I was checking out Tom Tancredo. The Ron Paul volunteer said in an interview, Ron Paul was asked who would he vote for if he wasn't running, he answered Tom Tancredo. Interesting?? gypsyman

Yes, I like Tancredo & Duncan Hunter, Mr. Paul is a zero with no moral stand.

ironglow · « **Reply #53 on:** October 13, 2007, 01:55:41 AM »

Agreed Nomosendoro, I have been searching for the center of RPs moral compass also..

Swampman · « **Reply #54 on:** October 13, 2007, 01:59:23 AM »

I'm a single issue voter. I belong to the gun owner's party. That's why I'm voting for Fred.

powderman · « **Reply #55 on:** October 13, 2007, 03:39:26 AM »

tm7 moderator??? Enjoy your forum, I'm gone. POWDERMAN. Can't use a smilie, my post disappears when I click on one.

magooch · « **Reply #56 on:** October 13, 2007, 04:23:01 AM »

Quote from: magooch on October 12, 2007, 04:29:04 AM

I just watched Ron Paul on C-span. He didn't say anything crazy, or act nutty, so that was good. He actually sounded like a guy who is down to earth and has common sense. The problem is that he didn't say anything profound. For someone to come out of the woods and try to get elected President of a country like this, he is going to have to get noticed.

As I see it, someone like Hitlary can say anything, even outrageous crap and she gets attention, but if someone like Ron Paul says anything that is slightly controversial, he is either ignored, or blown off as another nut job. That is the hurdle that wantabees have to find a way over. If Ron Paul is going to be anything but an also-ran, he has got to come up with something that will catch people's attention.

I'd like to see him say, no more immigration and no freebies for non-citizens. Oh, and throw in some tax cuts and a balanced budget, based on spending cuts.

Then I watched a replay of the latest Republican debate and Dr. Paul went goofy again. He is his own worst enema.

Dee; RP may have said those things and that is good, but it's all the other stuff he says that queers the deal.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #57 on:** October 13, 2007, 05:09:20 AM »

What exactly is the other goofy stuff he says , that queers the deal? More detail please!

ironglow · « **Reply #58 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:45:07 AM »

Nw hunter;

I admit there are many government programs that can be deleted without harm to and probably great beneft to the average citizen;

...But the CIA, FBI and Homeland Defense ?

Swampman · « **Reply #59 on:** October 13, 2007, 09:10:26 AM »

I'd rather get rid of the Department of Labor, OSHA, the EPA, and the IRS.