Nosler failure

[NONYA]

The triple shocks are the one bullet I havnt had a problem with thus far,I have had one or two partitions separate and the accubonds are no better than the combined crap I loaded.

Well...don't that beat all...I've never heard of a Partition separating from it's back core unless shot into  steel or concrete...otherwise they preform just exactly like they are suppose to...and that is the front mushrooming...and sometimes all the way back to the partition when driven at top speeds or hitting super thick bone...As for the Accubonds...I have never seen them lose well over 1/2 their weight unless when hitting super thick bone...The CT BT's...yes...I have seen them come apart on deer less than 50 yards away and hitting the shoulder...but even then they had complete penetration and looked like your picture for the exit wound...

So...do I believe this happened...In my honest opinion...No...I don't...I know this won't matter to you...but...that's ok...You have your opinion...but I actually base my opinion on extensive first hand experience with these bullets...not as you have with all the inconsistencies of your BS story...and I am sure others feel the same...



Mac

REMOVED BY MJBGALT

[mjbgalt]

whether you guys agree or not, the thread was about a bullet failure. stick to that subject please.  Remember those "you" statements lead to personal attacks...I respect you too much to let that start with you. Bullet failure can happen due to a flaw in the material or even a problem during the manufacturing process and be so small as to not be caught by QC. This is in the realm of "yeah, it could happen," so why point fingers?

Not stepping in to be on anyone's toes but this is my forum and I can't let it become like every other site.

-Matt

[rickt300]

Well this is an excellent forum, my favorite but there is nothing wrong with Accurate Reloading either.  In fact the lack of censorship is refreshing, sort of a libertarian atmosphere.

[mjbgalt]

i agree, that's why i took back what i said. i like the libertarian thing too...just meant that this is a more family-oriented site, as per what GB wants, so it has to be handled differently.

i do like AR as well...poor choice of words on my part.

-Matt

[nomosendero]

IT WAS NOT A BT,I know damn well they are worthless,AS i said they were COMBINED TECHNOLOGY noslers,advertised as a penetrating ,hunting bullet,supposed to penetrate like a partition and shoot as well as the accubonds,Winchester loads them in their premium ammo.150 grs,7 mag,2950 fps.The shot knocked it flat then it stood up and walked in a circle until i finished it off with a .45 acp.Any hunting bullet that EXPLODES on contact is a FAILURE.

"advertised as a penetrating ,hunting bullet, supposed to penetrate like a partition & shoots as well as the accubonds".  Well, I guess this is the first time that I have heard or read this statement, but then again I do not see all of the adds I am sure. Could you please provide the info where either Winchester or Nosler have said this. You say that the you KNOW the BT is worthless, but a BST is a coated BT.
 
I have seen it said that the Accubond combines the accuracy of a BT with the penetration of a Partition, but of course that has nothing to do with this situation.

I have some of these boxes in the reloading room & NONE of them say penetrate like a part. & shoot as well as Accubond stuff. Not just Nonya, but if ANYBODY has one of these boxes, please show us a pic,maybe a special box, who knows. Mine show a picture of a cross sectioned bullet & say, top to bottom the following:

Polycarbonate Tip To Resist Deformation & Aid In Expansion
                                                                       
Special Lead Alloy Core Provides Uniform Expansion In Hunting Bullets
                                                                       
Tapered Copper Jacket For Uniform Expansion Combined With Solid Base Boattail & Tangent Ogive For Maximum Accuracy

Lubalox (Black Oxide) Coating To Reduce Engraving Force & Barrel Fouling

All of the boxes I have seen describe the bullet the same way, I don't see any of the fly like a butterfly, sting lie a bee stuff.

[billy_56081]

My understanding is these bullets are Nosler ballistic tips with a lubalox coating no more no less. After seeing the wound I believe I was told right.  Thanks for the heads up I surley won't use these things in my 7 mag on anything bigger that antelope.

[nomosendero]

My understanding is these bullets are Nosler ballistic tips with a lubalox coating no more no less. After seeing the wound I believe I was told right.  Thanks for the heads up I surley won't use these things in my 7 mag on anything bigger that antelope.

If you want to go by this picture why would you use them on Antelope?

It could be like Ralph Nader said about the Corvair , "too dangerous at any speed".

[nomosendero]

I find this to be very odd. Years ago, I used a 180BT in a 30-06AI to harvest 25 or so Whitetails. Some were shot from tree stands at
close range & some out a ways. I find this to be a good comparison because the SD of a 150gr 7mm BT & the SD for a 180gr. 30 cal.
to be very close to the same, plus the vel. for this load was a little over 2,900, so tit for tat results could be expected. Well, not really. You see, these BT bullets were the ones sold in boxes of 100 & said Solid Base Ball. Tips & to those that know, that means that these bullets were "softer" than the ones of today. But out of all of these Deer,  NONE had this kind of entrance wound. Oh, some were violent, I knew I did not want that bullet for Elk, but ALL were quick kills & ALL penetrated to the vitals, even with much more resistance that this Fawn offered. Some had a large entrance, but only a fraction of this hole you show & I did have some large  EXITS but not nearly this big.

Every time I have seen a big entrance, there is hair, a bunch of hair in the hole. This hole is below the white line, yet I don't see much hair, odd!
And the mist blew around to the offside legs, another oddity.
I suspect that if I tried to duplicate your result by shooting 100 Antelope I would probably never get such an entrance hole like this, but maybe 2 or 3 exit holes like this.

Yea, must be fluke

But then you shoot just 2 animals & had this issue with both both, yea faulty I guess.

In this thread or another forum you mentioned that you contacted Nosler. Please let us know what they say.

[nomosendero]

The triple shocks are the one bullet I havnt had a problem with thus far,I have had one or two partitions separate and the accubonds are no better than the combined crap I loaded.

OK, so the Bal. Tip/CT fails, the Part. is no good & the Accubond is no good & since that covers the complete Nosler line, then I guess we should conclude that Nos. is no good.

I guess Nosler missed the boat by dropping the Failsafes. I am reasonably sure that a 160 gr. 7mm failsafe loaded in a 7mmWaters might penetrat the rib cage of a 30# Ant. Fawn, but that's just me.

The problem for me with this is I just returned from WY. & part of the Mule Deer & Antelope we shot (6) were with 270 cal. 140 gr. accubonds & the performance was flawless.

[NONYA]

  The lope was dragged quite a ways back to the rig before i took the pic,you CSI blood splatter experts arnt going to diagnose anything from what you saw in the pic,there was very little blood outside the wound before i drug it but there was hair EVERYWHERE around the kill site.

[Graybeard]

Don't think Nosler ever made the Fail Safe that was strictly a Winchester offering.

I still have no clue what bullet was supposedly used on the antelope. I've yet to see a cognizant explaination of what bullet was used by Nonya. I'm waiting for a definitive answer and a photo of the box they came in.

Way back in history meaning the fairly early days of the internet and of such sites as this when GBO was an infant and so was Hunt America there was a fellow who posted there that I seem to recall lived in NY state. I've long since forgotten his name but he was a real regular poster there and his bullet of choice for white tails was the Nosler 125 BT shot at about 3200-3300 fps as I recall from his .30-06. I've long since forgotten the specifics but I think he claimed something well over 30 one shot kills all with full penetration and never a blow up or failure to penetrate.

We've now got Swampman telling us BTs pencil thru with no expansion and Nonya telling us all Noslers come apart and don't penetrate. Then we have the rest of the world using them with total and complete satisfaction. Beats me what's going on but I'll continue to use them with full confidence in their performance personally.

The lope was dragged quite a ways back to the rig before i took the pic,you CSI blood splatter experts arnt going to diagnose anything from what you saw in the pic,there was very little blood outside the wound before i drug it but there was hair EVERYWHERE around the kill site.

That makes me wonder if you forgot which direction the lope was really facing and if that's an exit not entrance wound. If an entrance the hair should all be inside the deer not on the ground it seems to me. Now you'd have no trouble at all if you were trying to convince me it is an exit but I'm gonna hafta admit to being from Missouri on it being an entrance. I won't argue it with you but will always suspect you got your direction it was looking backwards until I see such first hand. Kinda like the way I feel about those bigfoots you have so many of up your way. 

[Graybeard]

Hey reading my own post I think I've come up with what happened. One of White Eagle's bigfoot buddies did one of those transdimensional time warp shift kinda things and caused that bullet to flip the lope upside down and backwards and the bullet went in from the wrong side and came out where it was sposed to go in. Them bigfoots are tricky like that. 

[Mac11700]

The lope was dragged quite a ways back to the rig before i took the pic,you CSI blood splatter experts arnt going to diagnose anything from what you saw in the pic,there was very little blood outside the wound before i drug it but there was hair EVERYWHERE around the kill site.

Now that's a real peculiar situation then...That big of hole...and hardly any blood on the ground or coming out of the wound...How is that possible? The wound isn't cauterized...and with this much damage..It is going to be bleeding profusely...It is stated elsewhere that this animal was up walking around and it was put down with a 45 ACP to it's head...Now I know fawns don't have as much blood as a full grown lope...but come on...very little blood outside the wound.....This has gone way pass absurd...

Bill...don't hold your breath on getting a straight answer from him...because I believe he really doesn't have a clue as to what bullet he shot...which direction the animal was headed...and wither it's really an exit wound instead of an entrance wound...Hell...the folks I had at Nosler looking at this thread and the other threads...concerning the same this morning...cannot figure it out either... I think you might be on to something though...Big foot and little green aliens shooting ray guns...

Nonya...If I may make a suggestion...Why don't you just let it go...Your not going to convince those of us that have our doubts about this here ...especially since a-lot of us knows full well your a much better wild life photographer than what this one sided photo is showing...Had you really wanted to prove something like this...there would have been many more pictures of the same little fawn in the field...prior to you dressing it and dragging it out...I know...I know... you gotta try to convince as many folks as you can...and you have to have the last word on it...but...Honestly....It's time to let this one go...and I am asking you this nicely...What do you say...?

Mac

[NONYA]

Why dont you let it go , it happened,get over it.

[Graybeard]

Bullets can and do fail this is true. BUT most so called "bullet failures" are in fact a failure on the part of the shooter to use a proper bullet and proper firearm for the job at hand. Not all mind you but MOST.

Nolser bullets are excellent in both quality and performance. But they are one of the most misused bullets out there. The BTs are super accurate and because of that folks like and want to use them to get that accuracy they are so rightly famous for. But many (too damn many in my opinion) also want super velocity as well. The combination is not a good match.

Nosler BTs are not varmint bullets by any means in the larger bore hunting bullet line and are not to be confused with their BT varmint line of lighter bullets. BUT if you push a light for caliber BT hunting bullet from a magnum and then hit a bone at close range the results are likely not gonna please you. Is this bullet failure? Nope it's operator error pure and simple.

When I use BTs and I do often, I use them in more sedate rounds based on the .308 or .30-06 case or in TCs as they give super performance both accuracy wise and terminal performance on game. But I don't use 120s in my 7-08 I use 140s. If I were shooting a still hotter round like say a 7 Rem. Mag then I'd step up to either 160s or even move to the AB or PT which is far more likely what I'd do.

So if you use the bullets improperly rather than as the manufacturers say and then it fails to meet your expectations that's not bullet failure, sorry it just isn't.

Now on those rare occasions a real bullet failure occurs it's generally a fluke and most shouldn't be blamed on the specific bullet so much as the set of circumstances encountered. Say you shoot a 150 or 165 grain .308" bullet at a deer and it hits a bone at just the right angle and just makes a 90 degree turn. Did it fail? Yeah it did but was it because of the bullet or the circumstances? Most of the time the circumstances. Had it hit a fraction of an inch more toward the center of the bone it likely would have busted on thru but they can impact at just such an angle to veer off course.

This is again why I personally prefer heavy NOT light for caliber bullets and why I prefer the more sedate velocity provided by the .308 and '06 based cartridges as opposed to magnums. The lower velocity and heavier bullets tend not to do such wild things in my experience.

If you have a valid instance of what you consider bullet failure whether it really was the bullet's fault or the shooter's fault for using it improperly or just a weird set of circumstances that occured on that one shot and which has nothing to do with the bullet or manufacturer then by all means feel free to comment on them.

BUT we're NOT gonna have a smear campaign against the bullet maker going on here because you failed to use the proper bullet for the application or because a weird set of circumstances conspired to cause it to make a weird turn.

We're also NOT gonna have members attacking others and name calling over these kinda threads. I am absolutely and positively NOT gonna put up with it and I don't care who you are. I am not gonna have you taking info you have no clue about regarding events here and going to other sites telling folks stories as truth that you have no clue about from here. If you insist or going to other sites and starting pissing contests about events here don't be surprised if you find you're no longer welcome here.