Author Topic: revolvers in the brush  (Read 4264 times)

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Offline IMshooter

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2007, 05:16:44 PM »
I think I read that S&W discontinued the K frame .357 magnums.  Used specimens are easy enough to find, though.  The model 19 is my favorite.  I also have a model 18 in .22 for practice purposes.  Both guns have 4 inch barrels and I can use the same holster.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2007, 11:40:13 PM »
yup there the same sized frame. Matter of fact ive found that most of my k and L frames ride just fine in my n frame holsters.
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Offline 454Puma

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2007, 10:00:17 AM »
slickest
   A 4-6" 357 will serve as a good back-up for Blacks! As for stopping power -forget it in a handgun unless your shooting 454 Casull and up there isn't no such thing! If you go with the 357 mag load either a 158gr + cast bullet or JSP for penertration which is key -NO JHP bullets!!
One shot , One Kill

Offline S.B.

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2007, 11:14:25 AM »
454Puma, perhaps you should read more on the " Hunting Alaska" forum? The .44 mag. has a pretty good reputation up there for bear defense.
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Offline myronman3

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2007, 01:51:36 PM »
i have been face to face with a black bear with a 357, felt kind of small.   two weeks ago i was face to face with a 350-450 pound bear, and i tell you right now i would have definately chose a 44 over a 357.  as it was,  my 28 gauge was all i had.  earily this year i had one 30 yards out and i had the 45 auto with 230 grain hardcast.  i didnt have to shoot in any of the situations put it went a long way towards my confidence to be armed.   

i guess my point is that you will feel a whole lot better if the time ever comes and you have a 44 or 45 colt. 

Offline Heavy C

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2007, 07:33:36 AM »
You can't go wrong with a 44 mag.  Recoil is not bad at all and as someone else mentioned you can run 44 specials for practice if you are uncomfortable with recoil.  A short barreled Redhawk, Super Redhawk, or S&W 629 will serve you well.  Ammo is also readily available for it.

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2007, 11:56:03 AM »
Get a S&W model 17 22cal. and a soup can!
Throw the can 10 yards in front of you on the ground.
Then start shooting at it.
When you can bounce the can without it coming to a rest between shots for at least four- five shots then you are ready for a handgun for back up.
The ammo for the 22 is cheap enough to shoot as much as it takes to get good with a handgun.
After you get good with the 22 ---THEN--- get a 357 or 44
Unless you are already good enough with the 357 to roll the soup can I'd recommend the 22 first.


Willy

Offline IMshooter

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2007, 01:09:05 PM »
Willy,

That is a good suggestion.  In fact, it is pretty much the way I became a good pistol shot.  When people ask me what to get for a first handgun, I always recommend the .22.  And lots of ammo!

Offline jcn59

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2007, 04:27:11 PM »
Years ago,  in a far away land, I was attacked by a large brown bear, and all I had to defend myself was my K-bar Marine knife.   When the cuttin' was done, the only part that wasn't bloody was the soles of the big bear's feet.  And then I woke up.  When I'm awake I like to carry a .44 S&W Mountain Gun (pre-lock).  It's not for protection, just carryin'.  I'm pretty sure I've never been attacked by anything while awake.  How 'bout you?   Okay, I'm dune funnin'.

I always carry a gun when I'm in wolf/bear country.  No, I don't expect to be attacked today, but my life insurance is paid up and I don't expect to die today either.  I don't think that makes me paranoid, just "prudent".  Once I walked up on a small cub in the dark and all I had was a .38 derringer in my pocket.  It felt really small.  Never saw momma thank God.  I then bought a .357 Trooper which I like alot.
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Offline wsmitty01

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2007, 09:56:00 AM »
Besides the one encounter with a sow black bear with twins, I've never had any other encounters with large animals, but I was attacked by a rabid monkey in Viet-nam and got the rabies series because of it.  Rabid and sickly animals both large and small WILL attack human beings! A guide friend of mine killed a mountain lion that was ready to pounce on him in northern New Mexico, a necropsy showed the cat had some swollen and infected gums and couldn't hold it's prey, man was an easy food source. people have been attacked in their front lawns here in Florida by all sorts of rabid animals.  Is it necessary to carry a 44 mag for protection, probably not, but I never heard any terror stories from anyone who was over-gunned.  Out west their are bears, mountain lions, coyotes, wolves and a host of other critters that may or may not ever threaten you,,,buy one gun that will handle the biggest of them,,learn to shoot it well,,and go confidently into the woods or wherever you care to,,,and I forgot,,I was attacked (chased) by a large gator when out pig hunting once but I didn't think my 4" Gerber was going to handle the gator, so I let my feet do the talking then!

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2007, 10:15:43 AM »
how about horses and cows ?
mankind is closer to these than any wild animal on a regular basis !
ever been around one when they get pissed ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline IMshooter

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2007, 01:02:31 PM »
Good point.  One time my mom was hunting deer in a neighbor's pasture when two bulls started fighting over a cow.  The losing bull then spied my mom and became very aggressive towards her.  There were no trees to climb and the nearest fence was a long ways off.  My mom was really concerned she would have to shoot that bull to protect herself.  This did not happen.

Offline S.B.

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2007, 05:36:05 PM »
drdougrx, what is meant by  BB hunting guides? The acronyms used by younger posters seem to puzzle me, more and more.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
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Offline wsmitty01

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2007, 10:55:10 AM »
Just got back from Mulie hunting in New Mexico,,,while scouting for 4 days, had an encounter with a cougar, a VERY large Mexican wolf and a black bear that probably would go 350-400,,all in all friendly (?) encounters,,but had the 44 Blackhawk with me in case.  The only one of those that bothers me is the wolf,,they are too unpredictable,,hunt in packs,,and will kill for the sport of killing!! Why the environmental idiots insist on restoring them is beyond me....it took the federal government a long time with trapping and bounties to get rid of them 50 years ago,,,now they pay to re-introduce them????????

Offline LEO

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2007, 08:45:55 AM »
Well time to throw my 2 cents worth in, when talking about using a handgun for bear protection you are talking a whole different game from bear hunting.  If you are shooting a bear for personal protection, it is charging you or someone else or is on top of you or someone else.  This means you will be, in all likelyhood taking a frontal shot at a bear down on all fours and running at you.  The only chance you have is a central nervous system hit, that means cranial vault or spinal column any other hit may well kill the bear but not before it gets you.  Also if you are shooting to protect someone else the CNS shot is also your only real chance with a handgun although if you are presented a side shot and can break both shoulders that would also stop the charge but the chances of doing that with a handgun are much less than with a rifle.

With that said, a 357 with hardcast bullets has ample penetration to be effective on black bears and cougars which are obviously not as heavily constructed as bears.  The critcal factor is shot placement so you need to be familar and comfortable with your weapon of choice this comes from extensive practice.

Now what all this means is that you have to practice a lot in realistic situations, such as low light.  Don't worry about shooting at 50 yards because a bear 50 yards away is no threat to you.  Practice hitting a target the size of a softball which is roughly the size of a bear's brain if possible rig  up something to make the target move at you to make  it more realistic, I have seen things like this rigged up using a cable, pulleys and a small electric motor.  But like many others have said I am far more concerned about 2 legged attackers than 4 legged ones in the woods.

Finally spend some time studying bear behavior, from reputable sources, to learn what a bears current behavior says about what it is getting ready to do next.  Plus learning about the bears will help you avoid situations that put you at risk of an attack thus eliminating the charge before it happens.  I have lived around black bears all my life and have never had a problem with them but I respect them and give them their space but with that said, I don't know that I won't get attacked by a bear tomorrow so I still carry my handgun most of the time.
Good luck

Offline drdougrx

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2007, 03:02:37 PM »
Hi All,

I haven't been on this post for awhile.

S.B. - BB stands for black Bear and thank-you for the comment as I'm nearly 49 years young!! ;)

If you like, please enjoy some of my hunt pics at:

http://public.fotki.com/DrDougRx

If you leave a comment, please leave your GB screen name so that I can reply back!

Offline slabsides

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2007, 04:10:26 AM »
If you don't handload, a .44 or .41 Mag. is the safest bet in a woods protection gun.
If you do handload, you could add the .45 Colt to that list, with heavy loads.
Don't think of one of the SuperBlaster .454-.460-.480-.500 howitzers. Few men
can handle them, especially in emergency conditions. My choice in a woods carry
gun is a 4-5/8" Old Model Blackhawk in .41 Magnum caliber. Most compact for the
power of any pistol I personally have ever owned. I wouldn't go any lower than that,
and I specifically would NOT choose a .357 in its place. BUT: truth to tell, you'd probably be
as well off with a .22 in the woods, it would handle all but .000001% of your handgun
needs when you go off the pavement. We carry more gun, only for that .000001% chance.

Offline Dusty Miller

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2007, 01:37:36 PM »
No, we carry big bores because WE LIKE BIG BORES!! :D
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2007, 05:31:47 AM »
in emergency situations it would seem reasonable most wanting to survive could shoot a 454 , i have one and most who try it do ok !
it would also seem reasonable to assume ( as reasonable as most men can't handle a big mag. anyway ) that those wandering around wilderness areas would be of some physical strength to begin with and capable of shooting what ever was needed to stay alive !
For the record - I shoot a big bore cause I have more confidence in it ! everything else has to expand to be as good as a big bore starts off being , why take  a chance ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline walks with gun

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2007, 05:50:00 PM »
  I guess I don"t understand what you mean by a backup gun when hunting whitetails means?  If your rifle fails to fire?  in case you fall out of a stand and want smething to signal with? or if a deer gets the drop on you and you take a chance on drawing your backup.  If you just want a handgun for just the sake of carrying a .357 should get you by just fine 158gr jhp if worried about bears.  But if your thinking of trying game with it youd best go with the 6inch .44.  trying to put a moving bear centered in a scope at the range you would probably need it should prove to be interesting.  The main things I worry about up here in northern Mn. are nuts, methheads and feral dogs. Anyhow let us know what you decide.

Offline deltecs

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2007, 11:25:05 AM »
I carry a Lady Smith 5 shot .357 mag.  It is enough for very close encounters against anything that is liable to do harm to me.  I do mean close, 5-10 ft.  No scope for me.  I carry this handgun in clip on hip holster almost daily where I live in Alaska.  We have numerous black bear around my house and they do not have any fear of man at all.  Noise doesn't bother them with the generator on and gun shots don't even make them blink.  I've had them look in the picture windows into the living room from my front porch, on my boardwalks around the beach and even in the outhouse.  Doesn't matter if it is day or night, I've seen them.  So, for my own protection and that of my crew members, I always go armed outside.  When I go to Anch for supplies, this revolver goes too.  One never knows when a bear is going to be aggressive much like people.  Why not carry the firearm you will carry for defense to use also for a backup hunting.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline millwright

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2007, 01:58:52 PM »
Lots of blacks here in Maine, but, I am more concerned about attacks from sick animals.  I spend a lot of time walking in the woods here and my carry gun is a 44 spcl with a 3 inch barrel loaded with 240 gr hard cast on top of 12 gr of 2400.  Noise and recoil tolerant.  Works for me!
The worst time to find your tongue is when you lose your head.

Offline S.B.

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2007, 04:24:29 PM »
I can't think of a better bush carry than my 629-4 Mountain Gun, it has the 500 grips on it now:

"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
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Offline skit

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2007, 10:39:21 AM »
hi all. i do live in grizzly country and people do get killed here every year. i'm leaning  towards a 10mm glock. probably a model 20

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2007, 11:05:37 AM »
skit , i love mine ! nite sights too !
sometimes i carry a rifle for back up !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline skit

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2007, 11:41:38 AM »
hi shootall, thats great, just what i wanted to hear, i just got my first glock, a g17, and its already getting lonley! haha. merry CHRISTmas and a great new year to you and everyone else too.

Offline skit

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2007, 12:03:23 PM »
oh yes, this is a revolver thread, sorry! my choice is the sbh 7.5 in 44mag.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2007, 03:01:29 AM »
you are right , i love my red hawk 44 ! just as much !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline David Carey

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2007, 07:07:09 AM »
    The main things I worry about up here in northern Mn. are nuts, methheads and feral dogs.

Where is here? That you have such a problem with meth heads and feral dogs, and does your local PD alow this to go on? You must live in the great anti gun state of Kalifornia?

Have you ever seen the South Dakota hunting regs they have a section on Meth labs and what to do if you run across one, I would expect that other states will follow. I like the use of calling them tweakers.

page 51
INFORMATION FOR HUNTERS
Sportsmen Beware: Meth Labs are Dangerous!
The manufacturing of, and use of the illegal drug
Methamphetamine is a growing concern in South
Dakota. It should be of particular concern to unsuspecting
outdoor enthusiasts. Meth labs are commonly
found in secluded rural areas, campgrounds,
and along our waterways. People manufacturing
Meth (known as Meth “cooks”) produce
the drug in their homes, unoccupied buildings,
vehicles, campers, trailers and even ice fishing
houses. Whether they are using or manufacturing
Meth these individuals may be delusional and extremely
paranoid. Approaching them in camouflage
clothing and carrying a firearm can be a recipe
for disaster.
If you encounter a Meth ‘cook’ or user while on
your outing, remember they may be hallucinating,
paranoid or violent because of the drug. Take
precautions to keep you and your party safe. Keep
in mind these six safety tips for approaching a Meth
“tweaker” (user).
 Keep your distance. Coming too close can be
perceived as threatening.
 No bright lights. The tweaker is paranoid and
bright lights may cause them to react violently.
 Slow your speech, lower your voice.
 Slow your movements. The tweaker may be
paranoid and may misunderstand your actions.
 Keep your hands visible, or they may feel threatened
and become violent.
 Keep the tweaker talking. A tweaker who falls
silent can be extremely dangerous. Silence often
means that his paranoid thoughts have taken
over reality, and anyone present can become
part of the tweaker’s paranoid delusions.
If you are threatened, call law enforcement and
tell them that this person may be under the influence
of Meth or other drugs.
Meth is a synthetic amphetamine made with common
chemicals like cold tablets, solvents, ether,
drain cleaners, alcohols (methanol, ethanol), lye,
camping fuel, red phosphorus, iodine, anhydrous
ammonia, lithium metal, and various acids. Most of
these chemicals are hazardous by themselves,
but when mixed in the cooking process they become
toxic, which is harmful to humans, animals
and the environment. These mixtures are also
highly flammable and even explosive. Manufacturing
of one pound of Meth produces 5-6 pounds
of hazardous waste. These chemicals can cause
severe health problems, even death if handled
improperly. Exposure may cause respiratory problems,
skin and eye irritation, headaches, nausea
and dizziness. If you believe you inadvertently
came into contact with a lab or dumpsite and experience
any of these symptoms, first seek immediate
health care. Secondly, we ask that you contact
local law enforcement or the “Turn in Poachers
hotline (TIPs)” at 1-888-683-7224 and report
the location and any details you can remember.
The following is a list of items (or empty containers)
that may indicate a Meth lab is nearby or you
have stumbled upon the dumpsite:
 Propane tank with blue or makeshift valve (discolored
because of exposure to anhydrous ammonia)
 Cold/allergy tablets
 Red Devil lye
 Iodine
 Heet
 Coffee filters (stained reddish brown)
 Lithium batteries
 Toluene
 M.E.K.
 Starting fluid
 Brake cleaner
 Plastic containers with rubber tubing
 Camping fuel
 Acetone
 Stained or crusted cookware
For more information about South Dakota’s Methamphetamine
problem log onto www.mappsd.org
or call 1-800-343-9272
MAPP-SD
Meth Awareness and Prevention Project
A project of Prairie View Prevention Services
NRA Life Member

Offline Robert357

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Re: revolvers in the brush
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2007, 09:02:32 PM »
....If you do hand load, you could add the .45 Colt to that list, with heavy loads.
.......I wouldn't go any lower than that,and I specifically would NOT choose a .357 in its place......

While my preferred handgun in the woods is a snub-nose 44 Rem Mag stainless Astra revolver, I will on occasion carry a 357 Mag with hand loads (200 grain bullets with lots of Alliant 2400 powder behind them).  A heavy 200 grain 357 Magnum +P load may not make as big a hole, but it will have lots of penetration.  The Brits replaced their military .455 revolvers with 38/200 revolvers that were a lot milder than a 357 Mag +P with 200 grain bullets.

The 357 Mag is still a respectable round.  If you don't hand load there are some specialty ammo companies (Buffalo Bore, etc.) that sell heavy 357 Mag rounds.  When I choose the 357, I bring a shirt-pocket 12-round ammo pack with 6 extra rounds of heavy 357 Mag, 4 extra rounds of 158grain 38 Special, and 2 38 Special shot shells. As you said about the 22, a 357 is enough handgun for almost anything and in the event of that "anything" it will still give you a fighting chance, if you load it for lots of penetration.   (I also have a shirt-pocket ammo pack for my 44 Rem Mag and I carry extra 44 Rem Mag, 44 Special and 44 shot shells).