Whats in your......Survival Battery

[EDELWEISS]

In the event of a "social disruption" like Katrina, riots, etc. , have you given any thoughts to protecting yourself and your family?  We all have firearms or we probably wouldnt be on this site, but have you planned a well rounded battery.  Ive had lots of different guns over the years, for lots of different "needs" and "wants", some are very specific and pretty useless outside their specific job  others cross over and are more general.

For long term survival I like "hardware store" calibers. because I want to be able to "find" ammo and parts.  My AI 338 Lapua is a Fantastic weapon but Im not likely to be able to come up with parts a ammo in an emergency.  Even thouugh I may give up some performance Id sooner accept a more available cartridge and rifle, like a 700P in 308.  For the same reason I'll leave my Bennelli M1 at home and pack an 870 or Moss 500.

I like to think my Battery as being in two categories: Defense and Working.

For Defense I have a CAR15 (thats a M4 for us pre-digital cammie types).  It pretty basic no lights (that may change) and a fixed carry handle.  I use a Colt 4x scope, but nothing else.

My hand gun used to be a 1911, and I havent thrown it away but Im now thinking a Glock may come first.

I have a Rem 700 LTR in 308 with a fixed 6x Leupold scope, for long distance issues.

My Working Battery is more hunting oriented but where possible I like to use the same calibers or alteast readily avaliable calibers like 30-06, 30-30, (308), 38.357, 44, 45Colt.

What in your battery?

[SHOOTALL]

A social event if you will , to start with a handgun , all auto's have a mag. which can be lost not to mention can break .
So a 44mag. and a 357 mag might make more sense as they have nothing to be lost and most people can use them .( you may be out of commission and depend on a wife or other for your protection .
The shotgun , something simple with out o rings or other breakable parts , an 870 pump seems best and a few seems even better as a second gun is the best spare parts bag . Maybe a 12 and a 20 .
The rifle 30 something , 308 , 7.62X39 or such , a 223 maybe !
a silenced 22 long rifle will be handy for collecting game with out causing attention to be drawn to yourself !
keep in mind to spend more on food , batteries , water and other emg. staples  , the gun may be important but only if you survive and being in a gun fight ain't a good idea , so anything that helps you stay home and out of the fray is as important as the gun !
I know this ain't some exotic weapon system but when you are tired , wet , hungry , hurt and not in a warm fuzzy state of mind user friendly and tried and true will be welcome !

[Old Syko]

In the wake of a "social disruption" do you really believe hardware store ammo is going to be the answer?  If you don't have enough going in odds are you're just packing a very unwieldy club which is going to severely limit your ability to search for more.  I don't see the need for more weapons to take care of than I can easily feed for an unknown period of time.

I know this ain't some exotic weapon system but when you are tired , wet , hungry , hurt and not in a warm fuzzy state of mind user friendly and tried and true will be welcome !

Excellent statement!  Too many forget the discomfort and disorientation side of the issue.  During such times you need familiarity and that only comes from repeticion or practice if you will.  Stick with what you know.

[SHOOTALL]

when the American people expanded west the shotgun was the most used weapon .
More people in WW1 died from sickness and starvation .
if you show up to early at the hardware store you will get shot for stealing and to late and you will leave empty handed !
a real timing issue to be sure .

[EDELWEISS]

Good replies gentlemen, for sure.  I use the descriptor "hardware store ammo" to mean commonly available an likely to be traded.  How much food do you think I could barter with extra 338 Lapua rounds?  A 22 especially a suppressed one is an excellent idea that I have considered over the years.  Frankly it might have been higher on my list of "must haves" than the shotgun except for the cost and paperwork issues at present. 

No I dont think if you havent stock piled before the event that you will be able to run out and fill your battery.  Although some will try perhaps from your supplies, and thats just another reason to be prepared.  In a violent situation a man armed with a stick is better armed than one with only his fist, but only if trained and willing to use them.  Surely you may survive with only a ______, but there will be no awards for the survivor who makes it with the least equipment.

I have no problems with revolvers, currently they are high on my fun to have list, and I wouldnt hesitate to use one in a "anti-social" encounter.  There are definet advantages to revolvers and autos, but I for one am clueless on even simple repairs to a DA revolver.  On the other hand I can an have disassembled and rebuilt a 1911 useing nothing more than a pen refil and a glass ashtray (but that was back when Army Offices came equiped with glass ashtrays).  I remember adds for the Ruger Security Six line of revolvers that emphasized how they were so "rookie" proof, that they could be taken apart with a dime AND reassembled the same way.  Frankly I never tried, but I wouldnt be without a 38/357 revolver on my list.

Your "situation" will of course depend how many items you deem necessary.  A large part of it will be whether you can hold up and defend your position or if you have to move.  Moving presents its own problems.  Do you have transportation? Do you have a destination or are you wandering? Are you traveling alone?

Weapons alone will either protect nor feed you.  In even a moderate "situation" knowledge and willingness will be only supplements to preparations.  The media never published it and the government never showed it, but during Katrina m,ore than one neighborhood banded together and guarded their property.

The shotgun is an excellent weapon, but it would not be my first and only choice in bad times, neither would I be without one.  It offers the advantage of greater hit potential and recognizable deterrence but at the expense of bulk when it comes to ammo storage, limited range and capacity.

 

[SHOOTALL]

I have seen it written that 22 long rifle ammo will be the currency in such times !

[EDELWEISS]

I agree with that, 22rf may be the currency for "hard times".  To that I would add 38, 9mm,  40S&W, 44, 45acp. and maybe 45Colt.  Throw in some 223, 762x39. 308, 30-30, 30-06, 12ga and you have "hardware store" ammo.......

[S.S.]

think about what you folks are saying !
trading ammo ?
if times get that hard folks I sure am not going to be trading away
ammo for someone to then use to take everything else I have from me!
always remember, "Those With The Weapons Make The Rules".

[Old Syko]

Just a little something else to ponder.  I will not be willing to barter away my ammo just to have it used on myself.  I would be more obliged to trade booze for ammo, food, etc.  Then all I have to do is be patient and I can have what I want.

Another key to survival in such a situation is to not keep all your eggs in 1 basket and be willing and able to move quickly at a moments notice from 1 resorce to the nest.

[SHOOTALL]

You can live with out ammo you however can't live without food , water or medical supplies . I suspect most would trade a portion of their ammo for any of the three if the need arose .
I listed 22LR and no others for the simple reason it can be used for food gathering and not offensive attacks as well as the other rounds listed !

[~Ace~]

In a SHTF situation, there is Not going to be a neighborhood Swap and trade day Lmao.. it's Not going to revert to 150 + years ago, you will be dealing with Desperate, Starving and VERY Agressive people that are coming to TAKE any and Every thing you have to Eat, or of value. If you do not have proper Food / Water / Medical and Most of all Ammo stores already, you will Not get more, and will Likely Not survive.  The Have Nots will become Predators with nothing to lose, and Everything to gain, there will be no Law, and no rules. You will have NO friends, Anyone aproaching your retreat Must be treated like the Enemy they are and made to reverse direction or be neutralised. It could take a year or more before anything starts to improve. Preperation and Planning are a great Start. Education in how to survive, combined with well planned maneuvers are what will give you the edge needed to insure you and you family remain as safe as possible.

[SHOOTALL]

Ace a valid point , after the shaking out shall we say food stores and ammo will be depleted and most will be in a mode to grow or raise food . MOST LIKELY THE SURVIVORS WILL UNITE AND HELP EACH OTHER ! This is how society got its start to begin with !
The outside help that may come could be a political interest that your group may not wish to bow to ! ( depending on magnitude of disaster ) and as a group you would have a better chance to resist unwanted "help " !
One option is to relieve ammo , food,  and other things from the opposition as the opportunity presents itself !
At this point we should all realize as much as this is possible the destruction and grief we would face should make all try to ensure our way of life is protected as nothing i for one can think of would be better !

[ebonitekid767]

ya know,i had never even really given it any thought at all about what i would do in a real serious situation like whats being discussed here...last summer we had really bad floods and as the water really started rising into town i thought S**T was about to hit the fan so i just grabbed the 500 and 3 boxes of 00 buck and sat on the porch till finnaly we had to leave. but  after reading this stuff it makes me want to maybe start stocking up on "bulk ammo deals" like the 9mm and 12ga buckshot and once i get a pistol permit i will probably have a 9mm since i already have a rifle version i can keep different ammo to a minimum! this topic really has me intrigued so any other advice you guys have im all ears!!

[targshooter]

To me a "collapse" is a temporary breakdown in civil order as seen during Katrina or in some of the opportunistic riots conducted by the low life of the US. I do not believe that a total collapse of the government is possible. The caveat one must always be thoughtful of is that the police are not responsible for you protection, you are. I also believe that the creeps that prey upon people are cowards, and if you are lucky (and statistics bear the likelihood of this out) the mere sight of you with the weapon ready will dissuade the looters. Note, not brandishing the weapon, but aimed and ready to start dispatching. My focus would be the immediate vicinity of my house. I would confront a home invader at the entry point. I would nail shut and bar all entry points except for the main entrance and one rear window. I would use my Mini-14 with the 20 shot Ruger magazine in the house, outside I would employ the FN-FAL. In my mind I have established no approach zones to the house, the advancement over which would result in shooting. The entire concept is rather weak, as a neighborhood response would be needed to ensure that the homes would be safe. I believe that once the government sends in the National Guard or the Minnesota NG respond, one could feel secure. It is sad that one must think of such realities, but in the wake of Katrina and some of the rec ent opportunistic riots, such is life.

[SHOOTALL]

very optimistic since areas of New Orleans are still unsafe , how long has the NG been there ?

[Old Syko]

Like it or not, the well prepared predators will inevitably be the survivors.

[SHOOTALL]

YA got to love the term short term , short relative to what ?
if you have supplies for 3 days 6 is long term !

we went with out power for 13 days , in summer !
on the 11 day the fire dept. came by and dropped off bottle water , nice plan but it was out of date !
at times like that think like you live on an island , bring it or live with out it !

[SharonAnne]

I noticed several people said 'i would pick' or 'i want'.   so what you ARE saying is

'in my survival battery I have NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So,come TEOTWAWKI, what is yours, is MINE.

[SHOOTALL]

that's a great point !
but some are just starting to build up a kit .

[SharonAnne]

Shootall. valid point. so,,,stop talking folks, get a properly set up AR-15 and a 1911/.45acp. the rest is detail work

[SHOOTALL]

or a good bolt action 308 and a 30 carbine adapter for small stuff !
the 45 sounds good - with night sights !
AR-15 Matel still turning them out ? JUST KIDDING !

[SharonAnne]

while a 308 bolt rifle is a better deer getter than an AR15 it is far from the best choice for a fighting rifle. and 2 legged varmints are the most dangerous game on this planet

[Empty Quiver]

I'm of the opinion that a variety of chambers will be best able to take advantage of available ammo. That said I also want at least 100 rnds. for each weapon on hand. Rem 12g pump, Mossberg 20ga pump, AR 15 w/ 7 mags, one 9mm and two .40 s&w hand guns w/5 mags each, .300 mag bolt gun, .22 pistol and carbine, 45/70 lever action, and two .50 black powder rifles. Still need to find the right .357 revolver and a .45 auto. A .308 battle rifle, a 30 06, and a 30/30 would also keep me from being a hypocrit. I better spend more time at work and less on the inter nets!

[SHOOTALL]

SHARONANNE , please excuse me but i thought we were talking about a survival rifle not an assault rifle , if alone or with a small group it would make little or no sense to engage in battle . If  you need to defend yourself it would be far better to snipe your attackers from a farther distance than their AR's could be brought to bear effectively . And in the case of crew served weapons it would be best to remain hidden and not become a target IMHO !
I guess it should be mentioned that a high rate of ammo expenditure is less than optimum when all you can have is what you can carry ( Survival may mean bug out , no definition was made as to the situation in this case so i took it to mean all cases ) . This is not my observation but long expressed by Col. Cooper and othe people who studied such as a life long mission . I forget the author but a gentleman from Winchester Va. put out a booklet called THE CITIZEN SOLIDER that in fact suggested that a bolt gun with ammo was the best choice due to less problems in long term use as most simi-auto's require parts replacement far more than the bolt gun ( every guide one reads expresses the need for as many as 6 replacement parts for AR type rifles ) .
I realize that the Ar has a cult following as does the 1911 but one must step back and address the elements of survival far past the Rambo look and the spray and pray crowd .
In a true SHTF period of time , when food and water are less than min. when you are less than a 100% or maybe even 50% is it best to have a weapon that in a moment of say the stress of making a river crossing in winter you could loose a magazine and have a AR single shot ? or bend your last mag and have a single shot ?
take time to consider the advantage of the bolt gun in having all that makes it work attached at all times add a shell holder on the stock and ammo is always there also .
the big bore revolver has the same quality for the same reasons .
in a true survival SHTF type of day , I might opt. for a shot gun then if starvation or injury was setting in i might have the best chance to get that critter that might mean living or stop that attacker that might mean death .
again a good bolt gun in 308 with a 30 carbine adapter is a good choice as you have a gun that can take out bad guys trying to hurt you or slip in a 30 carbine and collect dinner with less meat destruction . and a box of 30 car. is not much bigger than a box or 2 of 22's and light years ahead of 22's in being water prof . The car round could also be used to protect yourself if 308 ammo was used up . And why carry a 22 if you carry 2 long guns substitute a shot gun for the 22 ( 20 ga. fits nice here ).

[SHOOTALL]

sorry , i meant to mention that all the above is based on ones ability to know his woods craft and how to keep up with what is going on around him . If you don't have other skills the gun is useless . Except for going out in a blaze of glory and the AR might be best then !

[SharonAnne]

Shootall. you seem to think that if one has an AR15 then one defacto engages in spray and pray. My AR and I, are quite capable of 300 yd hits on deer/man size targets. The longest shot I have had is 365 yds with my AR. I doubt you will 'snipe' at long range. After all, you will be defending and anyone wishing you harm will be making use of cover and stealth. As I said, 2 legged varmints are the most dangerous animals on this planet. In a SHTF situation, looters will be a larger danger than starvation.If you choose a .308 then get your M1A. it will do anything a bolt gun will do and is much better suited for 2 legged varmints.

It has been my experience that those who use the term spray and pray usually have watched ipsc shooting from a distance. they have not seen the results these shooters obtain with rapid fire and ASSUME that most of the shots miss. Quite the opposite. On medium distance pistol targets, 10-15 yards,my shot to shot split times on target are 0.15-.020 seconds. This IS aimed fire, just very quickly. With practice you can obtain a repeat sight picture in amazingly short time frames. I didn't believe you could get a second sight picture 0.15 seconds after the first shot, but after 10s of thousands of practice rounds,  I finally saw it. This was with IRON sights. Two of us reached the point where we could call OTHER peoples shots because we were SEEING bullets in flight. Not clearly, but a streak.

Just because some people shoot quickly, don't assume they are missing.

[SharonAnne]

Shootall, what do YOU think the range limit of the 5.56 nato is?

[SHOOTALL]

There is range and effective range . I feel confident that the 308 surpasses the .556 as the military uses it in the bolt guns for snipers and are now re-issuing the M-14 . Yes they are looking at semi-auto's for snipers , because the bolt gun sets them apart and makes them a target of opportunity on the battle field not a fault of the bolt gun performance .
the spray and pray referral was the fact that on the run ammo is limited and should be conserved . The snipping of one of a group tracking / chasing you is standard procedure to slow their advance ( IN SOME CIRCLES ) .
and i have shot the games , it is great to add pressure to ones practice but shooting paper fast has little in shooting fast when you are a target , it has a humbling effect to say the least !
Add to that you can't miss fast enough to win in a gun fight !
all are welcome to their own opinion and will in the end live or die by their decisions . If what i post sparks one to rethink a position good , if not good also !
It is not important that you can defend your choice of equipment it is important your equipment can defend you in all conditions and situations !

[SharonAnne]

Shootall, you didn't answer my question.

[DCRthe3rd]

""In the event of a "social disruption" like Katrina, riots, etc. , have you given any thoughts to protecting yourself and your family?""

A ruger p90 and an ak with a folder

now if I was planning on living in the forest some place a nef single shot would be on the list , kind of hard to booger one of those up and if you do , a little thought could get it up and running again