CCW caliber analyzed

[jrdudas]

I know there have been many discussions about the best caliber to use for your concealed carry weapon, and I just want to mention some of the reasoning for my choice.  This is not an attempt to convince anyone that my choice is the right one for them, just a listing of the thought process involved.

First off, I truly think that bigger is better, but I currently have decided on a Walther P22 for the following reasons.

I have a 9mm that I think is too big for comfortable concealment on my person.

I have a .357 that is small (Taurus) and is the right size but the barn door better be pretty close if I intend to score a hit.

I have a Makarov 9x18 that generally fits the bill but has significant recoil to the point where an effective  second shot would be iffy.

And I have the Walther P22 that I can shoot accurately in rapid fire and that I am very comfortable with.

Is it the best choice; probably not, but I firmly believe that you must be comfortable with all the elements of your carry gun.  For me, I can't shoot the snub nose .357 with any accuracy, so the bad guy will have to be scared off by the roar.  I can only conceal the 9mm with comfort in the colder weather.  The Makarov recoil probably means I will only get one good shot off in the time available.  With the Walther I am confident that I can score multiple hits in the time available, and in a self-defense situation multiple hits with this gun would be my plan. 

So if I have a question I guess it would be this; when folks talk about the stopping power necessary that can only be provided by a large caliber, are they talking about one shot or multiple shots?  Given the right set of circumstances (PCP for instance) I suspect that a single hit even with a heavy caliber will have to make contact with a vital organ to be effective.

JR   

[jrdudas]

Forgot to mention that there are two remaining calibers that interest me for concealment purposes; a Bersa .380, and a .32 available from a number of makers.  I have not tried either of these two, but I think both could possibly satisfy me.

JR

[Dixie Dude]

I have a 5 shot Ruger .357 that is very accurate out to about 25 yards about the same size as the Tarus/Rossi.  Don't remember which model.  It can fit in my pants pocket, but a little bulgy. 

[canon6]

My take on  a gun to carry is, first if you have a 14shot 278Jones planet wrecker,that stays in the guns safe because it is .... To heavy,to big, to noisy,and hard to hit with, or a Walther P22 that you will carry and can hit  with the answer is simple to me.Use what you can and will carry.  my2c   Doug

[K.K]

The first rule of winning in a gunfight is to have a gun. A mouse gun on your side is still better than a cannon left in the safe at home. That said, there has never been a better time to buy a compact handgun in an effective caliber. The competition is tight and there are many manufacturers producing fine guns that fit the bill, whether you like revolvers or autos.

[Heavy C]

The first rule of winning in a gunfight is to have a gun. A mouse gun on your side is still better than a cannon left in the safe at home. That said, there has never been a better time to buy a compact handgun in an effective caliber. The competition is tight and there are many manufacturers producing fine guns that fit the bill, whether you like revolvers or autos.

Well said.  I would also add that additional practice with the other calibers mentioned will soon have you shooting those just like you shoot that 22.

[Illhunter]

I would practice with the 9x18 myself  and my min cal would be a 380 or i would look for something new i myself like the CZ 75 compact and the kimber ultra carry they are small and if you really want something compact kel tec is great or a nice revolver.

These are my thoughts but also sounds like a good reason to buy a new gun to me and i can always use a new one of those.

[T-Rex]

As you said, just because a decision is right for one guy, it isn't necessarily for everyone.

My carry decision, has evolved over a long period.   While bigger may be better, small and light sure make life easier.  I carry pretty much 24/7.  My days are pretty active, involving lots of bending, reaching, twisting, etc.  I also work in situations, where no one can ever know I am carrying.  This all means I need small, light, and still functional.

My major carry guns are the Kel Tec P3AT, PF9, and P-11. I use RBCD ammo which is a super light load, but fully fragmenting.  The result is total energy absorbed in target, and very little recoil for an accurate second shot.

Again, I am not trying to sell this approach to any of you macho types, just letting you know what works for me.  Under different circumstances, I would rather have my 1911 at my side, but a small gun at hand is a lot better than a bigger one, out of reach.

[Illhunter]

I like the kel-tec it would make a small, light carry gun. my preference would be the P3AT or the PF9. I have no experience with the PF11.

[rockbilly]

.22 for a CCW?  First, I ask, are you confidant in placing the security of your family and yourself in the effectiveness of a .22?  If so then go for it.  Second, Even with multiple shots the .22 may not penetrate heavy clothing worn during winter months.  Third, I know of an incident where a very close friend was shot with his own gun after attempting to arrest a druggie that was hopped up on drugs.  The druggie had already been shot twice in the middle of the chest with a .357.

Yes, a .22 is better than a sharp stick, but I would not place my life on the line by carrying one.  There are too many good choices in larger caliber, lighter guns out there to risk you life with it.  JMHO.

[Dusty Miller]

If the only thing I had for SD was a .22 I'd just stay home!!

[jsoukup]

I'd keep practicing with the other guns. Load some good 38's in that 357 and practice. Start with the 148gr target wadcutters. Sounds like some dry fire practice would help too.

[Mikey]

I would like to suggest that you get a good set of grips for the 357, grips that will allow you to control the revolver, and begin practicing with 38 wadcutters and move up from there.  You do not need a full house 357 for self defense - good 38 loads will easily suffice and may be more effective in helping to control the recoil.  357 snubbies give little more than an increased bark over 38s and are less effective when used by inexperienced shooters or those not well skilled in its use. 

A slug need not impact a vital organ for an immediate stop and often even when a vital organ is struck the assault may continue or the assailant may leave the altercation but not necessarily drop dead on the spot.  That may more likely happen when the bullet strikes and breaks one of the major bones, such as shots through the chestplate, or shoulder or hip shots that break a bone or bone joint and cause an immediate loss of structural integrity and bone support strength is often more immediately effective.  Head shots are difficult and far too 'hollywoodish' to be effective - in addition, the skull is the most heavily armored part of the human body and its shape often deflects bullets rather than allowing them to penetrate.  Just tryin' to help.  Mikey.

[SHOOTALL]

you asked if one shot or more were considered , well no round will give 100% one shot stops NONE !
you say and i believe you shoot your 22 better ! most do ! someone offered that a kel-tec would work in 9mm ,as would a Kara and alot of other weapons would also !
well as far as your ability under pressure with any gun don't be surprised if things feel different and you can quite work the gun as well under stress as at the range , most find it different !
you stated winter carry is easy but other times not .
I won't even hint at changing your mind but will relate a few things as i see them , one there is only one reason to tote a self defense gun of any type , you feel you may need it !
That said to be effective you need a gun capable of protecting you , to have it with you it may be necessary to change your life style and dress to accommodate having the gun with you . to comprise is to admit that you really don't feel the need to be armed or you just like to gamble with your life !
Take the time to consider the gun as insurance and just what coverage you can LIVE with and what premium its worth to ya !

[moxgrove]

If you are using the little wooden grips that come on the Taurus, that may be a big part of the problem. They get lost in my hand. My model 85 also came with a set of nice rubber ones that are much more user friendly, as well as the wood ones. If you can't find wacutter loads where you are and don't handload, cowboy loads are also really light on the recoil

[Devy55]

I've got several concealed carry weapons.  I like the Taurus .357 model 605 for its size, simplicity, and caliber options (.38; 38+p; 357).   A wheel gun is great for DA and bypassing a misfire. But the revolver is uncomfortable in a SOB holster (which I prefer) so I've got to move it to a side holster.  I got this one for my wife because it's less complicated than an auto, but I wind up carrying it more than her.

My other CCW are DA/SA autos that I carry loaded, chambered, and hammer down so they function like a DA revolver.

My Beretta PX4 in .40 is great, but generally worn on the side when the weather is conducive to over garments.  I'm confident in the round and can shoot it accurately.

The weapon I carry most is a Bersa 380, because it seems the best compromise for comfort, concealability, effectiveness, and accuracy. 

This bugger is a tack driver; has adjustable rear sights, and easy to shoot.  It's single stack magazine makes the pistol nice and flat, and can be easily concealed/carried SOB, hip, shoulder, or pocket.  I usually load 5-7 rounds and carry an extra magazine, just in case.  If I get in a shoot out that requires more ammo than that, I am definitely in the wrong place.  I plan on resolving any issues with the first magazine, but have the second so I'm not unarmed after wards.

One thing I'd say about the Bersa's, they work reliably and well if you got decent ammo.  The only poor performance I experienced was with American brand ammo that never sent two rounds the same place, (except the ground), and winchester ammo that had gotten infiltrated with cleaning oil.  My bad.  I cleaned the magazine and must not have gotten all the oil out. 

Beyond that, it's a simple blowback action.  Which means it tends to get pretty dirty after you've launched a few rounds, even with the best ammo.  But it still shoots and never fouled.  Just gets residue all over everything.     

Anyway, the Bersa is Aces in my book.

[JimP.]

Summer I carry a Ruger P97 45 auto, winter I carry Ruger Security six 357 mag or a Taurus 41 mag, all three guns fit the same Uncle Mikes inside the waist band holster, mostly  though I carry the Ruger P97 45 loaded with SPeer 230 hp ammo that is labeled for short barrel guns, this ammo is very accurate in the P97 and is made for the shorter barrel pistols...JimP.

[coyotejoe]

While a .22 between the eyes will take the fight out of anyone, unless you have icewater in your veins you won't shoot that well in an actual confrontation. I once tested myself for speed and accuracy with a variety of handguns and the Ruger .22 with 5 1/2" bull barrel was tops by a wide margin. I'd just acquire a flash sight picture and the heavy barreled .22 would just hang on target and rattle as fast as I could wiggle the trigger. But could I do that in an actual fight? I very much doubt it, so I prefer something more effective with marginal hits. The .380 is as low as I'd go in a carry gun, and I prefer my SP-101 Ruger .357.

[woodchukhntr]

I'm surprised that the Makarov would have enough recoil to be a problem, the .357 I understand.  I have a Charter Arms Undercover in .38 Special that I use with Winchester 125 or 130 gr. softpoints (I am not at home to check).  I find it controlable and accurate, even with the standard grips.

[SHOOTALL]

makarov , do they have a firring pin block or can they fire if dropped ?

[Illhunter]

Ok i like the makarov but like a bigger cal like a 45 acp i saw two great but to big for CCW and they were a 500 S&W and a 460 and 454 /45 colt now back to the 45 acp i have a colt government model but it is to big to easily conceal i did see one last night it was a star 45 auto like a carry model or colt defender really liked it, if i had money i would get a kimber ultra carry or the colt defender i like larger caliber my min cal would be 9 mm and would be a CZ 75 but this is my thoughts and i like the CZ 52 to.


Terry 

[drdougrx]

go find yourself a SW 3913 or 14 and be done with it.

[jgalar]

I used to live in the sticks in FL. One HOT summer day there was crew of prisoners doing work on the road out front. I asked the guard if I could give drinks to the guards and prisoners and did so. (Maybe when these guys got paroled they'd remember I brought them drinks and bypass my house )

I got to talking with one of the prisoners. He had 5 or 6 25 caliber bullet hole scars in his chest. He said he beat the crap out of the guy that shot him.

My absolute bare minimum is 380 in a P3AT But I would prefer at least a 9mm
Just my opinion.

[His lordship.]

I still remember the footage of John Hinkley shooting at President Reagan with a 2" barreled RG small framed revolver in .22 RF.  He shot double action, one round ricocheted off a car door, penetrated Reagan's chest cavity and almost killed him with a bleeding lung.  One round hit Brady in the head leaving him incapacitated, one round hit a fellow in a suit, knocking him back like he was hit by a car, and one round put down a DC police officer, causing an early retirement.  This was footage that was heavily televised, it is obvious that a small .22 RF can be used as an effective defense tool.

Another thing that everyone has ignored is the visual impact of pulling a gun.  I have pulled my small Raven P-25 in .25 ACP and my mini-revolver in .22 RF on several instances to protect myself and the bad guys always make a major effort to avoid me.  A bigger gun would look better, but the small ones worked perfectly.  Never had to shoot anyone, and only once did I actually have to point it at them, just seeing it in my hands or in a holster was enough.

I could see carrying a large framed handgun over a small framed .22, but that would be in a bad neighborhood, so I avoid those places where possible.
The small stuff is the gun you are most likely to have with you on a hot day or going into work, etc.

[mcwoodduck]

I sometimes carry a little Walther TPH in .22 LR (Picture a Walther PPK now shrink it to 1/2 size) and never feel under gunned.  I have practiced with the little gun a lot and it rides out to the range for a refresher course about every 4th trip.  Shoot your P22 a lot with what ever ammo you picked to keep in it.  I prefer the 60 grain round nose Sub Sonic Sniper  by Aguilla in it.  Make sure whatever you carry functions in your gun before setting off with a loaded mag of something that A) will not feed or B) will not eject.
In my range drills I have a plastic snap cap in .22 and ask someone else to please load it somewhere in my mag and then load the mag into the mag well.  I do this because not all .22 get the primer all the way around the rim and duds do occur.  With the snap cap (s) in the gun I have to clear the gun and get it back into action.  I also use a spent shell to simulate a failure to feed.
Does your state allow you to carry a rim fire? 
Remember if you need to shoot, shoot till the attacker stops or the gun becomes a rock.

[JimP.]

Well I didnt think that I would do it, but I have switched my carry gun to a 9 MM. the gun I now carry is the new Ruger SR9, it has a stainless slide, 3 dot adjustable sights, 17 round magazine and two came with it and a synthetic frame which keeps the weight down, this pistol is striker fired and had an incredible easy light trigger pull that I just couldnt believe. So I had to purchase it and when I got to my friends range, we both couldnt believe how accurate and easy this pistol was to fire. I tried 4 different kinds of ammo, one was FMJ and the other 3 were HP. The pistol didnt jam not one time on the HP ammo and shot all three to the same point of aim. Awsome, now I am going to carry this one year round and it fits the same holster described in my previous post and doesnt drag my pants down like the 45 auto did. You guys need to check  this pistol out, it will amaze you how easy the trigger is to manuplate and fire this pistol. JimP. 

[SHOOTALL]

Chris D , an attacker bent on killing you at all cost isn't quite the same as a group of unsuspecting guys getting shot !

Lets really look at this and get on down the road , worst case , one evening in the dark for what ever reason you find yourself attacked by a pcp addict, 300 lb man ! you only have time to draw and push gun out in front of you somewhat at the attacker and fire ! If you feel the 22 long rifle rim fire is the gun of choice so be it . BUT I WILL NEVER BELIEVE IT IS ! PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[454Puma]

My first question is which one did you start with? A first time shooter should start with a .22! Then when they master that move to a larger caliber. You say you can't hit two in row with the 357 mag- to much recoil? Then shoot 38 SP's! You cut the recoil down by more then half!! Once you get better then move to mild 357's until you can shoot the full mags! Training is the key and lots of ammo down range you'll never get any better if you don't!  I see way to many first time shooters start with the biggest Mag they can get- it's an exspensive lesson to learn! Bad habits are born this way! Get good ear protection too as not hearing the noise does effect how much recoil you feel!!!! Shoot and shoot often.

[SHOOTALL]

the progression of guns sounds great as does the practice , but often a young mother wants a gun that works , she has neither the money or time to practice ! i would advise a 38spl. / .357  !

[shoot_to_kill]

As for this ole country boy anything less than a caliber beginning with a "4"  is too small for comfort. No doubt there are smaller calibers than can do the job, but with varying results on those who may have partaken of nose candy or vein vittles. So stopping them on the firs go with a big bang assures they will not hurt me or my family in the future. My CCW is XD45 compact. and at times when my wife lets me carry my baby Sig P229 in 40s&w. When she is out she likes it so I have to suffer (NOT!) withmy XD45 (Love this baby as much as my Sig). YOu can never go wrong with calibers starting with "4".