CCW caliber analyzed

[williamlayton]

Interesting.
A .22 may do what you want but the odds are not that favorable.
I don't know that I shoot any better than any---probably don't shoot any worse.
I sure would like to believe that I can hit someting at 25 yards ONCE though---and I sure would like to make it count for something.
Blessings

[coyotejoe]

While I do accuracy test my handguns at 25 yards I also realize that an actual personal defence scenario is more likely to occur at 25 inches. Cops may be involved in shootings at extended range but the private citizen would likely find a 25 yard shot rather hard to explain in court. Many, if not most, personal defence shootings involve some physical scuffling and in such situations any auto pistol is likely to jam after the first shot if anything at all restricts the slide movement or case ejection. While modern autos and modern ammo are both very reliable on the range revolvers are MUCH more reliable when other hands and bodies may be restricting the gun. It's really hard to clear a jam while being beaten, strangled, stabbed and shot.

[williamlayton]

The first shot should help---if he grabs the gun who is to say he will not restrict the pulling of the trigger?
This what if can go on forever and no one knows til it happens.
Blessings

[coyotejoe]

Well, if someone grabs the front end of the gun, that first shot may be entirely involuntary and the bullet could go anywhere. If the bad guy is grasping the front end of a revolver when it fires, even if the bullet goes wild, the cylinder gap blast will take that hand out of the fight. Also, a revolver provides very little for the bad guy to grip, whereas a 1911 is about as easy to grip by the barrel as by the handle. It is certainly possible to tie up a revolver by gripping the cylinder but that is not a very secure grip and if it slips for even a split second, the revolver will fire and again, that is the end of that hand and the now free revolver is ready to empty it's remaining rounds where they will do the most good.
  The old saw that most shootings occur at 7 yards is based on very outdated data of police shootings. That data is skewed by the fact that cops do sometimes engage a suspect at extended range. There are no statistics as to the distance of civilian self defence shooting but common sense indicates the range is likely to be very close indeed. The civilian shooter would be well advised to spend less time practicing their shooting and a great deal more time learning basic hand to hand fighting skills. Up close and personal, a knife is probably a better weapon than a handgun which in turn is much better than a shotgun.

[SHOOTALL]

take the hand out ? maybe , bbl/cyl blast is out ward . if only the bbl was grabbed on say a 5+ in bbl the hand may go un hurt . has your trigger finger ever got blasted ?
 Also the hand on the bbl would have the advantage in leverage .
keep in mind a person with little or no training with a gun is  little more than a slight nuisance to one well trained in un arming another person .
A STRONG CASE FOR THE SHORT BBL. HAND GUN !

[coyotejoe]

Yes,  of course I was thinking of revolvers with barrels a person would actually carry, say 3" or less. The blast from a .357 will shread a canvas sand bag even though it is not in direct contact. There are photos on the web of a thumb with it's tip blown off by holding the left had too far forward on a large magnum revolver and there also the thumb was not in actual contact but maybe an inch and a half low and left of the cylinder gap.

[SHOOTALL]

3 in bbl Ok , i know lots of folks that have 4-6 in guns for home and a few that carry 4&5 inch guns ! but you still have to get hand in line with the bbl/cyl gap . The blast shield i used to shoot in a Creedmore position shows a distinct narrow line from the gap of the revolvers i shot . They ranged from 357 to 454 ! and a good leather glove would protect with a 357 . the guys thumb , some say a hoax as no burn marks exist in picture .
Then also someone in the know will grab the cyl. to begin with if it is being fired DA .

[Oldtimer]

There will always be situations where a snub-nosed .460 Weatherby wouldn't work.  Handling recoil is a very real factor in choice.  I once got my wife a Sig 230 in .380 that was one of the nicest guns I ever owned.  The grips made recoil very controllable.  She finally sold it to a deputy because she couldn't work the slide.  This really surprised me, because she plays piano and has a strong grip.  For casual shooters, I think that .38/9mm is ideal, and a revolver is a better choice than a pistol.  My wife's current carry piece is a Smith and Wesson 942 in 9mm.  It is very smooth and, with a concealed hammer, can even be fired through clothing, or a purse.  I bought her one in Italy to carry a gun in, and the woman nearly swooned when I told her my wife was a court official and might have to be armed, so she needed a big purse to carry a gun in.

[Rogue Ram]

Regarding the Reagan shooting......I swear that I recall John Hinckley was using bullets that were not just frangible, but had an explosive tip in them.... and that is what did all the damage. Anyone remember that???

R

[schnarrgj]

With the Reagan shooting, they were "explosive " rounds that did not work.  They had a reputation for not being a failure.

[kevthebassman]

The study of self defense shootings is the study of the absolute worst case scenario.  I firmly believe that if you are going to go the trouble of carrying, you should carry something that will get the job done with authority even if the bad guy is 350 pounds and you have to shoot through a thick leather coat and several inches of blubber, muscle, and bone to reach the vitals.

A 9mm or .38 is the smallest I will carry, .40 is nearly identical, 10mm is awesome and so is .45.

[gypsyman]

Didn't see anybody mention it. Charter Arms BullDog in .44 special. Recoil isn't too bad, big enough to get their attention! gypsyman

[Ron T.]

I  carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 ACP... a 90 grain hollow point bullet at 1,000 fps... not a "giant killer", but not something to be ignored either.

I looked at the new 9x19 model that Kel-Tec just came out with... and it's somewhat larger and considerably heavier than the little 7.5 ounce P3AT... and so, I'll continue to carry the P3AT, not because I wouldn't prefer to have one of my 1911A1's with me if a bad guy decides he wants my wallet more than I do, but because the 1911A1 in .45 ACP is just too darned BIG and HEAVY for comfortable, easy carry !!!

The little Kel-Tec is light, has a light, very manageable recoil and is small enough to put in your pocket and not give itself away by it's size and shape in your pants pocket... and it carries 7 shots, not 5 or 6 shots... one in the pistol's chamber and 6 rounds in the small, handly magazine  and is a true 9mm (.355 caliber) diameter bullet.

In Europe, many police departments still carry the .380's which are called "9mm corto" or "9mm short" and are, in European designation, a "9x17" (9mm or .355 caliber bullet with a cartridge case length of 17mm's) as compared to a 9x19 Luger or Parabellum.

That said, I've advised a fair number of people who aren't shooters and rarely if ever shoot a handgun to get and use a .22 rimfire pistol or revolver.  For a woman who may not have the strength in her hands to function the slide of a semi-automatic pistol, I often recommend the Beretta .22 rimfire semi-automatic pistol with the 'tip-up" barrel for the ease of initially loading the weapon's chamber. 

Let's face it... three or four .22's in the chest or head is a whole LOT better than a total "miss" with a heavier caliber gun.

Another GREAT advantage of the .22 rimfire is that it's inexpensive ammo with which to PRACTICE... and with practice comes better marksmanship... something to be strongly considered !!!


Strength &  Honor...

Ron T.

[Ron T.]

I  carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 ACP... a 90 grain hollow point bullet at 1,000 fps... not a "giant killer", but not something to be ignored either.

I looked at the new 9x19 model that Kel-Tec just came out with... and it's somewhat larger and considerably heavier than the little 7.5 ounce P3AT... and so, I'll continue to carry the P3AT, not because I wouldn't prefer to have one of my 1911A1's with me if a bad guy decides he wants my wallet more than I do, but because the 1911A1 in .45 ACP is just too darned BIG and HEAVY for comfortable, easy carry !!!

The little Kel-Tec is light, has a light, very manageable recoil and is small enough to put in your pocket and not give itself away by it's size and shape in your pants pocket... and it carries 7 shots, not 5 or 6 shots... one in the pistol's chamber and 6 rounds in the small, handly magazine  and is a true 9mm (.355 caliber) diameter bullet.

In Europe, many police departments still carry the .380's which are called "9mm corto" or "9mm short" and are, in European designation, a "9x17" (9mm or .355 caliber bullet with a cartridge case length of 17mm's) as compared to a 9x19 Luger or Parabellum.

That said, I've advised a fair number of people who aren't shooters and rarely if ever shoot a handgun to get and use a .22 rimfire pistol or revolver.  For a woman who may not have the strength in her hands to function the slide of a semi-automatic pistol, I often recommend the Beretta .22 rimfire semi-automatic pistol with the 'tip-up" barrel for the ease of initially loading the weapon's chamber. 

Let's face it... three or four .22's in the chest or head is a whole LOT better than a total "miss" with a heavier caliber gun.

Another GREAT advantage of the .22 rimfire is that it's inexpensive ammo with which to PRACTICE... and with practice comes better marksmanship... something to be strongly considered !!!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Ron T.]

I  carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 ACP... a 90 grain hollow point bullet at 1,000 fps... not a "giant killer", but not something to be ignored either.

I looked at the new 9x19 model that Kel-Tec just came out with... and it's somewhat larger and considerably heavier than the little 7.5 ounce P3AT... and so, I'll continue to carry the P3AT, not because I wouldn't prefer to have one of my 1911A1's with me if a bad guy decides he wants my wallet more than I do, but because the 1911A1 in .45 ACP is just too darned BIG and HEAVY for comfortable, easy carry !!!

The little Kel-Tec is light, has a light, very manageable recoil and is small enough to put in your pocket and not give itself away by it's size and shape in your pants pocket... and it carries 7 shots, not 5 or 6 shots... one in the pistol's chamber and 6 rounds in the small, handly magazine  and is a true 9mm (.355 caliber) diameter bullet.

In Europe, many police departments still carry the .380's which are called "9mm corto" or "9mm short" and are, in European designation, a "9x17" (9mm or .355 caliber bullet with a cartridge case length of 17mm's) as compared to a 9x19 Luger or Parabellum.

That said, I've advised a fair number of people who aren't shooters and rarely if ever shoot a handgun to get and use a .22 rimfire pistol or revolver.  For a woman who may not have the strength in her hands to function the slide of a semi-automatic pistol, I often recommend the Beretta .22 rimfire semi-automatic pistol with the 'tip-up" barrel for the ease of initially loading the weapon's chamber. 

Let's face it... three or four .22's in the chest or head is a whole LOT better than a total "miss" with a heavier caliber gun.

Another GREAT advantage of the .22 rimfire is that it's inexpensive ammo with which to PRACTICE... and with practice comes better marksmanship... something to be strongly considered !!!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[fish280]

i'm toting a pa-63 in 9x18 makarov. it's a hungarian semi-copy of the walther ppk. super little pistol after a hammer spring swap. six rounds in the mag, one in the chamber. light, very, very accurate rascal with 95-grain bullets at 1k fps or so. it'll be even more tote-able when flat custom grips come in ...
but i say, tote what works best for you. far, far better than toting nothing at all.

[torpedoman]

the CZ 82 is my favorite at this time i have no problem carrying a 32 pp Walther or the 82 in 9mm makarov  the 82 gives you 12 rounds and a real sweet trigger and can be  carried cocked and locked but the double action trigger though long is real nice and smooth and either are deadly if you hit what you shoot at. practice at 20 ft much beyond that and self defense is going to be looked at real hard unless they have a pistol in their hand. Love the 1911 in 45apc but at 5-7 160 its a bit much to conceal except in the dead of winter.