Author Topic: Your Best Caplock Deer Hunting Powder/Bullet/Primer Combination??? (Read 7115 times)

Dave1 · « **on:** October 17, 2007, 07:41:12 AM »

I am curious what everyone else has found to be the best muzz gun powder, bullet, and primer combination for deer hunting at average distances?

Have read on many hunting forums where many are displeased with this bullet or that bullet for one reason or another. Insufficient penetration and collateral damage, no pass-thru/no exit wound/no blood trail, lost deer, etc. are common complaints of "some" hollow point style bullets users.

Pointed poly-tipped bullet complaints have been; tiny pass-thru hole with little or no bullet expansion and energy transfer, little or no blood trail, lost deer, etc. are common complaints of this style bullet.

Some have found that what performs well on deer at close range, does poorly at longer range. I suspect these issues of poor bullet performance on game are related to the low/slow velocity typical with muzz BP guns. It seems the bullet mfgs may not be able to construct a muzz bullet that can/will perform well on game at both close and longer ranges and the varying velocities.

In my old 50 cal TC Renegade side hammer gun I shoot 100 grains of FF black powder, standard #11 CCI primer cap, and use a Hornady 240 gr XTP-HP sabot. This combination shoots about 4" group at 100 yards and has proven deadly on deer but at the longer ranges of say past 70-80 yards, I usually do not get complete pass thru and/or good blood trails from a middle shoulder shot.

I am just wondering if there is a better hunting load combination for my old gun.

Dave

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2007, 09:34:06 AM »

Before you get too far into this discussion, please read the sticky on what can be discussed in this forum.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,102791.msg1098280539.html#msg1098280539

flintlock · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2007, 10:22:15 AM »

I don't own a cap lock...I use flinters, in my .54 I shoot 80grs FFF Goex and a home cast .530 patched ball...

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2007, 10:52:55 AM »

I dunno Quick, I don't see anything bad here. Bullet performance from a traditional ML and what loads are being used should be okay for discussion, no? As long as we don't get into a "round ball is traditional, nothing else should even be discussed" type of go around. Heck, I might try a sabot in my GPR if it will get me a deer!

-Winter Hawk-

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2007, 11:25:01 AM »

Works fine as long as sabots, jacketed bullets aren't discussed, which Dave mentioned.

And to add my .02 worth, shoot tight behind the shoulder where the bullet only touches hide, flesh and ribs, and you'll get complete penetration with any lead projectile on a broadside shot. Shooting shoulders isn't for me, I like eating deer and elk too much to waste the meat. I've only shot 3 deer with a muzzleloader, all with PRB and 95gr 3F Goex out of a .50 cal flinter, the two longer shots were 80-100yds, I never recovered the .498" ball on either one of em, the ~40yd blood trail could have been followed by a blind man....almost!!

Tim

Paleface · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2007, 04:10:37 PM »

I have killed deer with the following loads.

440 round ball .015 patch (I think) 90 grains ffg real black powder #11 cap (navy arms .45 sidelock)
250 grain .50 cal lee real bullet (conical) 90 grains ffg real black powder 209 primer (t/c firestorm .50 sidelock)
425 grain hornaday conical bullet 90 grains ffg real black powder #11 cap (traditions deerhunter .54 sidelock)

I gave away the navy arms rifle when I went to the t/c. All in all, I have been thinking lately about getting rid of the t/c and finding a good used prb gun with a slow twist. I never really liked pyrodex. The only improvement I would think about is a musket cap conversion to get a better ignition.

All my shots were double lung except the 54 which was a neck shot at short range.

Dave1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2007, 09:27:40 AM »

Sorry, I didn't know it was such a sensitive issue.

Dave

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2007, 11:23:28 AM »

Dave, if you want to include modern bullets in your quest for accuracy and performance, just post the question in the Modern forum.

Tim

ratgunner · « **Reply #8 on:** October 18, 2007, 02:05:20 PM »

It says in the rules for this forum,no sabots or jacketed bullets.Not all powerbelts are jacketed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2007, 02:09:09 PM »

The plastic gizmo on the back of the Powerbelt is close enough to a sabot for me. In any event, they need to be discussed in the Modern forum, that's a real easy distinction to make to keep it simple.

Tim

Slamfire · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2007, 05:23:54 PM »

T/C Renegade .50, 66" twist barrel, 29 inches long, 80 grains of Wano FFg. .018" pillow tickin' patch lubed with Sno Seal, .490 round ball.

ratgunner · « **Reply #11 on:** October 19, 2007, 03:53:26 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on October 18, 2007, 02:09:09 PM

The plastic gizmo on the back of the Powerbelt is close enough to a sabot for me. In any event, they need to be discussed in the Modern forum, that's a real easy distinction to make to keep it simple.

Tim

LOL. I knew you were gonna say that.

Skillet · « **Reply #12 on:** October 19, 2007, 04:59:16 AM »

Well, all of my sidelocks are .45, so I'm partial to the 250 gn TC maxi's that I cast myself.

For years, I hunted with my CVA kit-gun, a Kentucky rifle (It's the gun I'm holding in the Avatar), loaded with the maxi over 66 gns of Pyro P. Velocity, clocked at about 15' is 1585 fps. Broadside pass-through shots are pretty much a given.

This load has accounted for 4 whitetails, 3 mule deer, 2 hogs, 2 turkeys and a javelina (add one corn-stealing squirrel that was all but cut in half by the impact at about 50 yds).

Being a .45 shooter, I prefer full-bore projectiles over that smallish PRB for improved impact.

On a down note, that maxi doesn't expand reliably on deer, but you will almost always get two holes and a nice blood trail if it runs any distance.

I lube the maxi's with a mix of gulf-wax and crisco, melted and poured around the standing slugs. A 45-70 case makes a good 'cookie-cutter' for removing them to store in plastc tubes.

Skillet

simonkenton · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2007, 08:30:37 AM »

In my Dixie Tennessee Mountain Rifle, and my TC Hawken, both caplocks, I use 90 grains of black powder and a patched round ball. Lethal on deer up to 80 yards, complete pass through every time on the lung shot. Deer goes about 40 yards with a great blood trail.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2007, 09:51:39 AM »

In my 50 cal Renegade Green mountain hybrid's I use 100 gr of Pyrodex select RS with a Hornady 410 gr Great plains bullet. So far my .458 Renegade GM likes 475 gr Whitworth bullets cast out of lead shot with 90 gr of pyrodex P with a felt wad over the powder. These bullets are hard, and I mean hard. I am sure they would punch through a deer from any angle out to 125 yards maybe more. It will blow through a rail road tie out to 150 yards and keep on going. Ron

Snowshoe · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2007, 10:20:19 AM »

I have taken at least 20-25 whitetails at 12ft to 110 yards with my .50 cal Deerstalker, and most of them fell to a .495 round ball pushed by 80g of Pyrodex RS. I did shoot one with those new fangled bullet combination things, but getting the barrel cleaned afterward was not worth the trouble. I like to keep it simple, and cheap.

clodbuster · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2007, 01:53:09 PM »

TC Renegade with 90 gr of pyro RS under the 385 gr Buffalo bullet. It gives 1450 fps and will shoot 2" groups at 75 yds and blow through any sideways deer breaking anything in the way. Its a real death dealer.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #17 on:** October 19, 2007, 05:41:54 PM »

Could have sworn i posted my load on here. Did it get deleted due to it being a powerbelt? Great plains conicals arn't traditional either.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** October 19, 2007, 07:22:51 PM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on October 19, 2007, 05:41:54 PM

Could have sworn i posted my load on here. Did it get deleted due to it being a powerbelt? Great plains conicals arn't traditional either.

Yes, it was deleted due to the powerbelt reference.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,102791.msg1098280539.html#msg1098280539

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2007, 02:18:41 AM »

The only rifle I now own is a TC Renegade .50 single trigger model. I hate double set triggers.

The only load I've ever used in my .50s whether side hammer or inline is 100 grains equivalent of Pyrodex under either a Buffalo Bullet or the almost duplicate Hornady Great Plains bullet. I think they both weight about 370 grains or so. I've never bothered to chrono the bullets so have no clue how fast they are going but they are more than adequate for up to 100 yards and that's as far as my eyes and iron sights are good for anyway. They just absolutely hammer deer.

I have what for me I'm sure is a life time supply of the two bullets and don't see me ever changing a thing in that load. I use whatever brand of #11 caps I find at the store when I run out but I think CCI are what I have on hand now.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 20, 2007, 02:35:44 AM »

I really love the Lee modern minie over 60 grains od powder in my 50 cal CVA Bobcat. That big flat fronted bullet really puts the whoop on deer. I lube them with liqud Alox.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #21 on:** October 20, 2007, 06:20:58 AM »

Well seeing how my other thread was deleted due to it being a "modern" type of bullet that flares and grips the rifling when the charge sets off, like a great plains or hornady. I guess i will just have to settle for my flintlock load.

traditions kentucky .50 flintlock, 110 grains FFFg Goex, TC .015 patch, Hornady .490 round ball does perfect on paper and on game.

Haven't shot game yet, but my other flintlock i have is using 90 grains FFFg, .015 patch and a speer .530 round ball. Its not a very good load to use as bunny wabbits, but you have to start some where when deer season isnt open.

ratgunner · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2007, 02:08:51 PM »

Thanks for sharing the photo ;)I'd like to see more photos. in the trad forum.I have a flinter for PRB but not a favorite load yet.The best so far in my T/C flinter is 90grns 3f and .490 Hornady RB and a prelubed .015 ptch.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** October 20, 2007, 02:19:28 PM »

.495" PRB, .018" ticking lubed with BoreButter on top of 95gr 3f Goex.

eskimo36 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2007, 03:46:11 PM »

This is last year's buck .... A 65 yard shot with a patched round ball over 70 grains of FFFG. 190 pound, 10 point buck, scoring 132. He only went about 10 yards after the pass through shot. I have a Traditions 1-66" 50 caliber that is styled sort of like an English sporting rifle.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #25 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:07:27 PM »

This years doe i shot, 80 grains fffg triple 7, cci #11 and i wont mention the conical

80 yard shot.

It was an excellent hunt and i was able to put a new rifle to good use.Think i bought the rifle kit back in April. Deer creek .45 northwest rifle, 32" douglas barrel. Excellent shooter. I'll be using it for rendezvous shooting with 60 grains fffg goex and a .440 PRB.

Keep the pics coming guys. I like seeing open sighted traditional rifles and the game they took down.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #26 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:11:49 PM »

I got this deer last year with my TC renegade with a Green Mountain barrel. I was shooting 410 gr Hornady GP.

This deer was my friends deer from the same hunt. Ron

ratgunner · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2007, 07:51:54 AM »

Very nice photos.Maybe we could start a sticky picture thread here for traditional harvests ? ;)Thats a hint Quickdtoo.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2007, 07:55:46 AM »

Start the thread, I'll make it a sticky.

Tim

ratgunner · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2007, 11:08:58 AM »

Done.Thanks.