Ruger Super Single Six Convertible 9.5" questions

[Graybeard]

As some of you know I picked up the subject revolver a short while back and in my shooting session on Monday of this week I finally got around to shooting it. Groups were quite decent considering my eye sight in fact I think the gun is definitely outshooting my eyes. This one was purchased strictly as an iron sight gun for plinking, informal target shooting and perhaps squirrel hunting.

So far my only complaint with it is the usually lousy Ruger trigger. It has to be fixed for sure even tho as Rugers go it's not as bad as some I've had. Still I'm sure it's hurting accuracy a bit even from a rest and for sure will when I go freehand with it.

So given that an action job WILL be done my questions are:

1. Who to do it?

2. What more than just the action job do you recommend?

I think Gallagher lives here in Bama perhaps within driving distance of me. I think he's quite higly recommended for custom revolver work. Of course Linebaugh is kinda like the gold standard I guess and Lloyd seems real high on Alan Harton. Mag-Na-Port did the action job on the Ruger SBH I won last year at White Oak and that was the best feeling Ruger action I've ever owned so for sure that's a possibility.

Is there anyone else I need to consider?

Talk to me and suggest what more you guys have done to your Ruger's short of a full custom job as it is after all gonna stay chambered as it is and the same barrel is gonna stay on it.

Or do ya think I just just junk it and get an FA97 with 10" barrel? After the review I could buy it at writer's discount which is a deep cut in price. After the work on this one the FA would likely cost only double what I'll have tied up in the Ruger.

[hunman55]

GB, you could do the job yourself. Just get a publication or article on smoothing and lightening the Ruger SA trigger and a spring kit might help. You probably already have the books and articles in magazines. I have an old model single six-black checkered grips-that I had my machinist gunsmith friend fit a 12in. barrel to and he made me new iron sites slightly larger than factory-both front & back. With the right ammo, I'm sure it will do an inch at 25 yds and will stay on a 4 inch fence post at about a 100. Hunman55. P.S. Keep the Ruger.

[BlkHawk73]

  There's Clements also.  If Gallagher is close by go that route.  I doubt you'll be disappointed by his work. 

[Graybeard]

I REALLY don't wanna do a home DIY job on it. I want a PROFESSIAL job done. I'm not a gunsmith and didn't even play one on TV altho I did once stay at a Holiday Inn Express.  

I've done a grand total of ONE action job on a Ruger single action and don't wanna do a second. Was not fun. It turned out fair but I want someone who really knows what they are doing, has all the right tools/springs/etc to do the job. If other work is appropriate that can be done as well.

My eyes are NOT up to one inch groups at 25 yards with iron sights any longer. They once were and I've even shot them free handed 20 years and more ago but my 62 year old eyes are NOT that good any longer. Oh I'll luck into one on rare occasions still but it's a fluke these days not something I can repeat on demand. My hands shake pretty badly also as the old bode is not as steady as it once was. That's one reason I say I really doubt the FA would improve my groups. I think this gun is already more accurate than me.

Yup forgot Clements. Anyone with contact info for Gallagher?

[Ken ONeill]

Graybeard,
I just saw this thread after posting a few comments about your next FA acquisition on that thread. My experience with Single-Sixes is pretty broad and lengthy. I've owned at least one continuously since 1963, and usually 2 of them for much of that time, for a total of 5. I've tested and shot many others. I successfully campaigned a stainless 9 1/2" version hard in IHMSA silhouette for a dozen years or more, into the early to mid 90's. I've fired it competitively many, many thousands of rounds... I'd hate to try to quantify a number. It was superb, when compared to the Colt, Smith, and DW competition. It will never be for sale. BUT...it is not the equivalent of a FA 252/83 or 97. I own an example of each.
I would highly recommend that you consider getting a 97 in .22 LR. I would also recommend that it be furnished with Sporting Chambers, not the optional "Match" cylinder, for convenience sake. The very tiny difference in pure mechanical accuracy is more than offset by the nuisance of the match chambers in my opinion.
Trigger and action work on a Ruger single action is easy. I've done my own for over 30 years, and I daresay hundreds of people can do an excellent job. A handful of people could make cylinders and change barrels to make a .22 LR sing. My own personal view is that the expense of making one equal an over the counter 97 (or the much larger 83) doesn't make any sense, unless there is a powerful emotional attachment to that particular Ruger.
Tell Bob to send it on !!

[hunman55]

I gotcha, GB. I'm 58 and getting that way myself. My 12in. Single Six breaks at an even 3lbs. Still, I would keep the Ruger. Nuff' said. Hunman55

[Flash]

I was going to recommend the do-it-yourself action job but since you insist on a smith doing it, I won't. Something you can try that is free and quite safe is to remove the grip panels and lift one leg of the trigger return spring off it's post and see how you like the trigger pull. This is called a poor man's trigger job by some but hey, if it works, who cares what some call it. Plus, the panels cover up the spring so only you know who did the trigger job. Try this while dry firing the gun and make your determination after that. It helps a lot in spite of it's nick name.

[MS Hitman]

Bill,

John Gallagher is in Jasper.  I highly recommend you go with him to do the work.  In addition to the action job, John can clean up any scratches, or other marks and reblue the revolver.  He cleaned up a Bisley in .45 Colt that some idiot had started butchering on.  It is a nice looking revolver now.

I no longer do or recommend lifting a spring leg.  You can achieve the same result by bending the legs and keeping them on the post as designed.

[2 dogs]

If you want the trigger on your Ruger perfected, Alan Harton is your man. I have well over a dozen Ruger actions done by him and they are uniformly excellent. His prices are reasonable and his turnaround time is quite fast compared to the other big names.

Alan Harton does an excellent internal trigger stop for the Ruger NM as well as adds a bushing to the trigger pivot hole to remove the side to side rocking which ends up being a very crisp and consistent release.

On the old models, his actions feel like butter. Very crisp and smooth. He can time them perfectly by adding metal to the hand...

Have him check your alignment. He can put a bit of weld on the bolt to move the cylinder left or right as needed. He can weld up the Ruger cylinder gas ring and move the cylinder all the way back to eliminate the end shake. The result is a much tighter sixgun. His welding skills are without peer. He can even weld up the forcing cone and recut it to reduce any excessive barrel cylinder gap.

Send me an e mail to fcgarza0640@hotmail.com and I will send you some pics.....Im not computer savvy enough to post em.

[corbanzo]

That is something I have been thinking about doing for mine.  Especially with that much barrel out there and the forward balance, the tiniest bit of sideways trigger pull with knock it off accurate offhand.  I usually end up putting it beside a tree just to make sure when shooting at smaller squirrels. 

It's not a horrible trigger... it just wouldn't be too bad if it were real real light, especially for a single action... that's how it should be.

[Lloyd Smale]

anyone of them can do a decent trigger job. (note decent not perfect) it takes a lot of work to get it perfect and if you had to pay it would cost you hundreds of dollars. What you will get for your money from one of these smiths is a good 3-4 lb trigger and the creap should be gone and any roughness in the action should be minimal. 2 dogs talks highly of alan hartons triggers. Ive never tried one. Ive got a buddy that does mine and to me even the ones from the custom guys need more work. 2 dogs knows guns so if it were me Bill i give that some consideration. Like i said ive never tried one of his yet but if its anything like the rest of his work i doubt youd be dissapointed. as to customizing you about know if it were mine id take a hacksaw to it and loose about 5 inches but I know you like them long. But i guess if it were mine and i wanted it long id consider putting a nice set of grips on it a belt mountain #5 style base pin and a bowen rear sight. If you really want to get fancy have clements take the warning off the barrel solder on one of his great front sights (couple gold bars for long range wouild be slick on that long barreled 22 reblue it and have it case hardened. You might want to check with him to as i think hes now doing taylor throating on the 22s that and a target crown might make it shoot a little better. If you decide you dont want that gun i think 2 dogs would take it off your hands or at least knows someone who would. Tell me when you want me to stop as i could proably keep going for an hour here!! By the way those bushed triggers are real nice. Ive had clements do a couple for me. It makes a differnce in trigger feel.

[2 dogs]

Hey Lloyd, I will tell you how confident I am. Have Alan Harton do a trigger job on your 32 that you sent him WITH a stop and if you still think it can be improved upon I WILL PAY FOR IT! I have tried Al's triggers too. They are pretty dang good!

[Lloyd Smale]

if youve tried Als triggers on his guns you havent tried als triggers. My worse guns are better then his best. He allways says he doesnt have time to fool with his own guns and has just to many to spend the extra time with them but he knows im a fussy fart and will roll my eyes up in my head if mine arent just right. He will sometimes put over 8 hours just into one gun and you can immagine what Alan would have to charge for that. I will have Alan do the trigger on that little sixgun becasuse youve talked them up so much i just want to try one. I know that Al can bush a trigger or put a trigger stop in and both of them features are great. PS you feel the trigger and action work hes done on my marlins too. That 18 4570 limited you have is just sitting there begging you to turn it over to me so it can be done up right!!!!! You really need to make a gift of that gun to me pal!! I could tell my grandchildren that a famous texas ranger gave me that gun

[2 dogs]

You are killing me. You aint gonna leave a single gun to your grandkids that aint completely utterly and thoroughly plumb wore out!!!

Not to get too far off Graybeards original question....CCH looks great on a Single Six too....while your at it.....

[Graybeard]

CCH looks great on a Single Six too

I know my brain is not fully functional tonight and I'm going to bed real soon to hopefully fix that. But I have no clue what CCH is at this time.

[Ken ONeill]

Aw, sure you do. Color case hardening. You've been getting some great suggestions. You're up to about the cost of a 97 now. Watch 2 dogs vewy vewy carefully. He can easily show you how to get the cost up to that of a new Corvette. But it will be beautiful !

[Lloyd Smale]

Id treat it with the same love and care as i do my dog. Now where the hell is the shock collar transmitter!!!!

You are killing me. You aint gonna leave a single gun to your grandkids that aint completely utterly and thoroughly plumb wore out!!!

Not to get too far off Graybeards original question....CCH looks great on a Single Six too....while your at it.....

[2 dogs]

Graybeard, dont pay a WHIT of attention to Ken. There is absolutely no question the FA is a tremendous sixgun. BUT, while it is kinda like a stainless steel surgical instrument capable of extreme precision, you have to think of the things you miss out on by customizing your Ruger. There is the excitement of planning your project. There is the opportunity to experience the fine custom work of a sixugnsmith whom you have not engaged before. There is the anticipation of you PERSONALIZED sixgun showing up like a fine gem hidden  in a plain cardboard box...So take a chance and ship your sixgun off. Have your name or an inscription put on it to make it yours. Have some custom stocks done out of cocobolo or your other favorite, be sure to change out the front sight to the target style to help your eyes keep up, dont forget the black powder chamfer and the #5 base pin.....crescent ejector rod......etc...Hell, throw the whole hog at it with Harton accurizing and Turnbull CCH and charcoal bluing...ivory stocks...no, dont listen to Ken.....

[2 dogs]

Lloyd, dont forget, I have SEEN your molds....tell you what....you send me Elmer to hold hostage and I will send you my 1895.....

[Lloyd Smale]

the dogs the last  thing id send you. Id never know what youd be doing with him How about i send the old lady instead. I dont much care what you do with her!! A real friend would want me to be happy and just give it to me for christmas.

[Ken ONeill]

Re: 2 dogs' suggestions...I rest my case.

[2 dogs]

Ken ole buddy you got the right idea but your sense of proportion is a bit off.....I bet I can make a custom Ruger that would cost a WHOLE bunch more that a FA....

[Graybeard]

Last night I was feeling pretty badly, major headache and dizzyness and went to bed very shortly after the last post here. The way I was feeling my mind was not operating very clearly and nope CCH and Color Case Hardening just didn't register on me.

At this time I'm really only interested in things that will improve the way the gun shoots not with how it looks. Not to say I might not do something later about that but I'm mostly concerned with the bullets going where they should not with the looks of the gun.

I shot it again today and I think I can shoot better than it is at this time. The trigger is really quite horrible. Gobs of slack and too much grit and it feels like a ten pound pull althou that's likely higher than it really is. I really can't shoot it to its potential with the action this bad. Still I think groups are running 2" to 2.5" or appear to be about that size. I've not measured them yet. It likes CCI Mini Mags pretty well but the best group so far has been with CCI small game bullets. I have it dialed in to shoot where I'm looking but that trigger is really limiting the results.

I'm shooting smaller groups with the new FA97 .45 Colt with only a 7.5" barrel so this one should be doing better with a 9.5" barrel that I can see the sights on better. I suspect I can cut the groups in half with a decent trigger.

My real question is what performance enhancing not cosmetic things should I have done to it when I turn it over to a smith to fix. Crown looks good to me, do you think I should still have it recrowned as that seems to be something most smiths want to do to them. Do the single sixes need a new base pin like are so often recommended for the BH and SBH? Does the forcing cone need to be beveled or whatever it's called kinda like what  is done to deburred a case on the inside? I find no evidence at this point of it spitting lead. What performance enhancing feature have you found needed on the single sixes other than action work? For now I'm not spending money on cosmetics of it until it has proven itself to be a keeper.

[2 dogs]

My original post was in answer to your question. We did get off on a tangent a bit....but I cant help it sometimes. With a revolver, the alignment has to be right. Thats not to say a sixgun with poor alignment cant be made to shoot well, its just that a properly aligned sixgun will shoot more loads better...a good trigger is a no brainer as are sights that you CAN see well. I usually change all my ruger front sights out....but then again, I am out shooting all the time...

[Ken ONeill]

All but one of mine have given me satisfactory accuracy (half the size you describe), but all of mine had a trigger job as a matter of course. No other work was ever done to them to enhance accuracy, although my 2 remaining ones have had extensive cosmetic work. The sole exception of mine that had accuracy problems had a severe barrel constriction where it was screwed into the frame. This was very readily apparent when one passed a cleaning patch through the bore. Although this is the only such example I have personally encountered, I've heard of the problem from others. Many years ago Elmer Keith encountered the same thing and wrote it up while testing a Single-Six. This is one of the first things I'd check for.
 Since John Gallagher is so close to you, I'd probably turn it over to him, but 2 dogs and others have championed Alan Harton so much, that he and David Clements should also be at the top of the list. Explain your desire for accuracy enhancement to them.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think it was bowen who said that a ton of money was wasted recutting forcing cones and recrowing barrels that didnt need it so if you send it in ask them to look at them instead of just tellling the smith to recut them. Lapping the barrel yourself might me the first option id look at. But be gentle as most are to big allready. All youd want to do is take out high spots and smothen it slightly.  I think beartooth used to sell .22 ammo allready impregnated with lapping compound but it would be easy enogh to make yourself with verals kit. If i was going to look at budget accuracy improvements it would go like this send the gun in for an action job. Have the smith look at the crown and forcing cone. Have him check to see if the throats are the right size. Have him check to see if the gun is alighned properly. Talk to dave clements hes fooled with accurarizing a few and will be the first to tell you that to see drastic improvements in a ruger it about takes haveing both a new cylinder and new barrel put on the gun as rugers 22lr specs are on the large side. Cost of this is pushing it up to the FA price range. Like i said bill hes been fooling with taylor throating 22 revolvers and it might be just the ticket for you as its not that expensive. Another option that i  would consider is picking yourself up one of paco kellys 22 accurizing units that bump up the size of the bullet slightly. there worth it just to turn cheap round nose lead 22 ammo into a much better small game load as while your bumping your making a wicked looking hp out of them.

[2 dogs]

Get your calipers out and start measuring your 22 ammo.....you will find some of it at .223 all the way to .225, at least I have....anyway, the fatter stuff has the best chance of shooting well. A bad barrel is a bad barrel. You aint gonna fix it. Some firelapping may cure restriction and I have had very very good luck with firelapping but a bad barrel has to be replaced. I think Ken and Lloyd will agree with me that a good match grade barrel is an excellent investment and one you wont be sorry you made.....

[Lloyd Smale]

If i argued with you youd just quote examples out of the 27 guns you have of each caliber and if you didnt have 27 of that caliber youd just buy 6 or 7 more next week anyway

Get your calipers out and start measuring your 22 ammo.....you will find some of it at .223 all the way to .225, at least I have....anyway, the fatter stuff has the best chance of shooting well. A bad barrel is a bad barrel. You aint gonna fix it. Some firelapping may cure restriction and I have had very very good luck with firelapping but a bad barrel has to be replaced. I think Ken and Lloyd will agree with me that a good match grade barrel is an excellent investment and one you wont be sorry you made.....

[Graybeard]

Today I measured the three groups I shot with this gun yesterday using three different types of ammo. All groups were shot using the factory sights and no aid to my eyes so how well I can see the sights definitely limited the tightness of groups some even with the 9.5" barrel BUT the trigger I think was the biggest limiting factor for me.

Groups were:

CCI Mini Mag HP    2.5"
Winchester solids  2.2"
CCI SGB              1.35"

That last one is really about as good as my eyes are capable of with iron sights regardless of what the gun is capable of. It makes me think that if I get an action job done on this one it can shoot as well as I'm capable of shooting with iron sights.

I will do a lot more shooting with it but it really does need to visit a smith for an action job before it's gonna show me what it can do rather than how well I can control a poor trigger. Next week I'll likely make some contact with some of the folks we've talked about and check some prices and delivery time estimates. To be honest tho if either of them are willing to do the job in return for a review of the before and after results and a banner for some period of time they are likely to be the one I select. If none will then I'll have to weight cost vs. delivery time and decide.
                 

[2 dogs]

Good luck with your idea, but you should keep in mind most of the top smiths have at least a years worth of business stacked up!