Author Topic: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel (Read 6061 times)

BobinIL · « **on:** October 18, 2007, 02:46:51 AM »

Well Murphy's law strikes. My TC Encore 243 Barrel arrived yesterday from Midway. I can't even install it on my frame because the forearm holes are off!!!

Looking down the bore, it was absoluly filthy. It looks like someone shot lead bullets out of it it was so dirty. I will be calling Midway today to see if I can exchange it. If not, I will really be pissed when TC gets the phone call.

BobinIL · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2007, 09:56:45 AM »

Hats off to Midway Customer service. They will exchange it without hesitation. Unfortunately they have no more 243 barrels and would have to put it on backorder. So I told them to send me a Bergara 243 barrel. I sure hope this works out, hopefully the folks at Bergara will know how to read a ruler when spacing the forearm screw holes.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2007, 08:02:21 PM »

The Bergara barrels I have dealt with have been sub-MOA right out of the box (well, plastic...)

Keith L · « **Reply #3 on:** October 19, 2007, 12:53:10 AM »

Gee, so have all the TC barrels I have seen...

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #4 on:** October 19, 2007, 02:15:12 AM »

Well, I guess you haven't seen the one in the above post. It couldn't be sub-MOA -- at least not just yet -- as you can't fire the thing...

Yes, some factory TC barrels are terrific shooters. I know as I have a few...

But occasional shoddy workmanship and a lack of quality control have plagued the company for years now.

Keith L · « **Reply #5 on:** October 19, 2007, 02:17:53 AM »

As with the parent company for Bergara. Things made by man can and will include occasional flaws. Unfortunately no one is perfect.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #6 on:** October 19, 2007, 02:27:56 AM »

True, but admitting there is a problem is the first step to correcting it. You'd think that the surge of returned barrels for mis-aligned and oversized chambers along with non-concentric crowns would get something changed at TC. But to this day, it hasn't.

Their biggest obstacle and most frequent goof happens to be with the '06 sized chambers in the Encore and the .357 Mag/.44 Mag chambers in the Contender (G2s).

I ma personally aware of at least 6 25-06 barrels that couldn't do better than 5-6" at 100 yards. Other problems abound, but I won't even get into those here.
It looked like TC may have stepped onto the right track with the Pro Hunter barrels as the quality of the first 8 or 10 I checked out was very good -- and all were good shooters.

Then there were 2 in a row that were problematic. With that being said, however, TC's reputation for customer service is stellar and a model for much of the industry.

BobinIL · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2007, 05:12:27 AM »

The Bergara barrel will be here today. I will hopefully be able to take it to the range this weekend. I will report back how it performs

pastorp · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2007, 01:35:22 PM »

Bergara barrels, I have never heard of them. Please educate me about them. Thanks, Byron

Joe58 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2007, 01:42:01 PM »

http://www.bergarabarrels.com/

I've read some positive reports about them and I know others that have a problem with them being made overseas in Spain.

They also make the barrels for the Optima muzzleloaders and I have heard reports they had issues with the earlier production barrels actually coming apart, but that was all just rumors I heard, as I haven't actually researched that myself so I cannot say for sure if that was fact or not there.

I was considering giving one a try however. The website link goes into a little more detail concerning their production process.

oe

BobinIL · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2007, 10:42:16 AM »

Update

The Bergara barrel fit perfectly and will shoot .75" 3 shot groups at 100 yds with ease. I am using 87grn Hornady V-Max and IMR 4064. These barrels are good to go.

Keith L · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2007, 11:24:47 AM »

Quote from: BobinIL on October 20, 2007, 10:42:16 AM

Update

The Bergara barrel fit perfectly and will shoot .75" 3 shot groups at 100 yds with ease. I am using 87grn Hornady V-Max and IMR 4064. These barrels are good to go.

It seems to me you used a sample of one to condemn TC barrels and a sample of one to pronounce the Bergara barrels "good to go." I have a problem with that. As there are lots of good TC barrels out there Bergara barrels are relatively new, and there hasn't been enough trial to declare all of them good to do anything.

I am happy yours worked for you. I am not convinced they all will be great. Time will tell that.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2007, 05:04:30 PM »

Keith-

All he did was REPORT his results. Why would you or anyone "have a problem" (your exact words) with that.

He did not condemn. He did not pull punches. He simply reported what happened. End of story.

I can respect that you don't want a Bergara barrel for yourself. But perhaps you should respect that others may choose a path other than your own.

PS-If his results bother you because he only tried one Bergara barrel, exactly how many Bergaras have YOU owned to base your disdain upon?

Lone Star · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2007, 06:57:11 PM »

Quote

All he did was REPORT his results. Why would you or anyone "have a problem" (your exact words) with that.

I too have a problem with the poster's pronouncement that Bergara's "barrels are good to go". He clearly implies that all Bergaras will perform - based upon one sample. Re-reading his post, he is doing far more than just making a REPORT of his results (your exact words). He has used his results to make a blanket statement on Bergara barrels as a whole. That is what Keith - and I have - a problem with. This has nothing to do with 'distain' of a particular product - but apparently a few can't understand that.

.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2007, 07:40:25 PM »

Lone Star wrote: "...make a blanket statement on Bergara barrels "

Ahh, the double standard rears its ugly head...

I see: it's perfectly OK if the post is anti-Bergara as in past threads, right??? Folks with ZERO experience bashed Bergara, and no one "had a problem" with that. Heck, a couple jumped on the bandwagon to follow the flock.

Yea, maybe he should have left out the "good to go."

Regardless, he reported results, which some folks apparently just do not like.

It reminds me of the kid down the street from my business. One evening, as the family was preparing to enjoy an outdoor meal, he began screaming "I HATE sour cream. I HATE sour cream!" as his mother prepared the condiments for fajtas. He had never tried sour cream, yet he had made up his mind that he hated it -- exactly as some have done with Bergara barrels.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2007, 07:44:11 PM »

Lone Star wrote: "This has nothing to do with 'distain' of a particular product "

What is "distain?" You have it in quotes (implying reference to my post), but I sure didn't write it. The word you are looking for is "disdain."

Keith L · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2007, 11:48:43 PM »

I have a problem with a sample of one being used as the test for quality with anything. He did much more than report his results. He blessed a new product ("these BARRELS are good to go") with to small a sample to give that blanket support. Had he said "this barrel is good to go" would have been fine. He is certainly qualified to speak to that.

Further, he condemned all TC barrels with the title to this string "Murphys Law and Crappy TC barrels." Yet he didn't qualify that statement with a list of crappy barrels he used to draw his conclusion. He discussed one. Again, a small a sample to draw such a conclusion.

I always find it sad when someone new writes in to ask about all the things he has heard are necessary to make his new TC shoot well. I wonder how many folks read other people's opinions and rush to spend money "fixing" things before they even know if they are broken. Often the experience these newbies are following is based on a single experience. And as I said before, anything made by man has the potential for error.

NONYA · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2007, 01:40:59 AM »

careful,you cant report the workmanship of product being less than perfect without being labeled as having an agenda!

BobinIL · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2007, 03:22:21 AM »

I based my opinion of TC barrels due to about 2 weeks of research on this and other forums that indicate there is a serious QC problem with TC rifle barrels. There are numerous posts on numerous forums about people having problems with TC barrels. This is why I was very apprehensive about buying one. See my other threads. After all of this research I decided to try TC anyway and I would have gotten burned if it weren't for Midway's excellent customer service. If I had all day to redo my reseach I would post a reply with links to all of the bad reports. There were good reports as well but it seemed to be about 50/50. I also look at the customer reviews on the Midway site. One thing I really do not understand is where all of the distain for Bergara is coming from on this sight. These barrels hve only been out for about a year and there is very little information about them. I researched these like I did for the TC and found very little information. This is why I gave my follow-up report. I feel like it is doing a service to let people know what your opinion is about a new product to assist them with their decision. Gun accessories do not have consumer reports published like cars or houshold appliances so we have to do the best we can. So if if will make the TC snobs on this board happy I will issue the following statement.

IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINON FROM MY VERY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT I PURCHASED A TC RIFLE BARREL IN 243 THAT WAS CRAPPY. I REPLACED IT WITH A BERGARA BARREL IN 243 THAT IN MY OPINON IS EXCELLENT. MY PARTICULAR BERGARA BARREL IS GOOD TO GO.

Keith L · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2007, 03:34:39 AM »

Thank you for clearing that up.

FYI I don't have any real feelings one way or another about Bergara. I know no one who has one. I just think it is not responsible to base conclusions on so small a sample. The last lines of your last post clearly state what happened. Well done.

encore3006 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2007, 10:14:16 AM »

Keith L,

I was going to respond to this post but after reading through your responses I would only be repeating what you have already said. Thank you.

bulzaye · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2007, 02:22:50 PM »

Well I had an encore for about 2 years. I got rid of it because I could not find a barrel to shoot well off it. This included a 209x50 magnum a 257 Roberts AI custom built at fox ridge. A 25-06 which was by far the worst 6-8 inch groups at 100 yards was the best it ever did. A 243 ,270. I got rid of the whole outfit and took a stinging. I am thinking about getting back into it now just because of the bergara barrels and how well they do shoot off my optima elite. Dont knock them until you try them. Don't has Ed Shilen one of the worlds top custom barrel makers. ho does T/C have?

bulzaye · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2007, 02:35:40 PM »

I must admit that the 50 caliber muzzleloading barrel took some work to find the right load but when I did it is extremely accurate. The only reason I am considering the encore again is my nephew has fallen in love with the elite, so I am sure he will be using it. It has the 50 caliber, 270 and 7mm-08 barrels. Plus with the encore I can have a custom 300 savage and 250 savage barrel made of it.

Ladobe · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2007, 05:53:52 PM »

I really have to chuckle at this whole thread.

"If not, I will really be pissed when TC gets the phone call."
Great attitude to have when you want customer service. Like it or not, ALL barrel makers ship barrels they shouldn't have. People make mistakes, and that's a fact of life. But none of them stand behind their products better than TC does, and that includes ALL of the custom barrel makers.

Guess the 200+ factory and over 100 custom barrels I've owned since 1969 for my TC Contenders and Encores have all been junk. Strange since they all shot exceptionally well for me though. Guess I only got the good ones somehow because I've never had a bad barrel. But I am glad to hear a new company is finally making barrels the newbies consider worth owning over the other brands, even if they've only had one of them and only one of the other brands to judge from. I am sure you won't mind if I hold my opinion on this new barrel MFG until there are a reasonable percentage of them in the hands of experienced users for a while to see just how good they actually are.

Just like many others who have been at this TC game for a long time, I prefer barrels from certain makers over others. And yes, they let some bad ones out now and then just like every other MFG in any industry does now days. But when you consider the 10's of thousands of barrels they make a year, it's a very small percentage and certainly not worthy of trashing their name over.

BobinIL · « **Reply #24 on:** October 22, 2007, 03:47:03 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on October 21, 2007, 05:53:52 PM

I am sure you won't mind if I hold my opinion on this new barrel MFG until there are a reasonable percentage of them in the hands of experienced users for a while to see just how good they actually are.

Well now there are 2 good reports about these barrels on this board. Its funny how many of the TC fanatics love their TC barrels but also sing the praises of Bullberry, MGM and Virgin Valley. IF TC barrels are so good why are you buying so many barrels from these makers? TC does have a custom shop right?? Yet you are sooo aprehensive and critical of Bergara with no first hand knowledge.

pastorp · « **Reply #25 on:** October 22, 2007, 07:25:53 AM »

Bobin, One reason, and the only viable one in my experience, because I've never had anything bad from TC. And the few things I did have a problem with, even when it was my fault, they fixed at no charge. Is because TC doesn't chamber some calibers.

That's the only reason to use any other barrel as far as I'm concerned. JMO Byron

Keith L · « **Reply #26 on:** October 22, 2007, 08:21:14 AM »

I didn't say and I don't recall anyone else "critical" of Bergara. I was just asking for more data prior to singing their praises. Now that there are getting to be some sold the evidence can be gathered.

I have to wonder why some of you are so touchy when folks don't automatically want to grant Bergara the status of a custom maker prior to them having to prove their quality? If they are good then it will show with time and use. Relax and let the product speak for its self.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #27 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:08:09 AM »

Keith L wrote: "I didn't say and I don't recall anyone else "critical" of Bergara."

Really? What about this: "I hope someone does try and report on this new barrel, but I agree with Davemuzz that I likely won't own one....Fact is these are not fine Spanish arms, but cheap Spanish barrels"

Any idea who said that?

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #28 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:23:46 AM »

This could be due to limitations of the search engine, but a couple of my posts chronicling my positive experiences with Bergara barrels seem to have simply disappeared. I even clicked on my profile and viewed my posts -- and they don't appear there, either.

Ladobe · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2007, 11:44:34 AM »

Quote from: BobinIL on October 22, 2007, 03:47:03 AM

Quote from: Ladobe on October 21, 2007, 05:53:52 PM
I am sure you won't mind if I hold my opinion on this new barrel MFG until there are a reasonable percentage of them in the hands of experienced users for a while to see just how good they actually are.

Well now there are 2 good reports about these barrels on this board. Its funny how many of the TC fanatics love their TC barrels but also sing the praises of Bullberry, MGM and Virgin Valley. IF TC barrels are so good why are you buying so many barrels from these makers? TC does have a custom shop right?? Yet you are sooo aprehensive and critical of Bergara with no first hand knowledge.

WOW! A whole 2 good reports on Bergara. Hope I'm not too late to buy stock in that company. With probably hundreds of thousands of good reports for factory and long established custom barrel makers over the last 40 years from people with many years of real life experience owning, using and comparing many of them (credibility), this new maker has a ways to go to get my interest.

Why the custom barrels? As a serious wildcatter I had to turn to the custom makers for my barrels because TC just doesn't chamber my wildcats. And all but a very few of my custom barrels have been wildcats. It's true I buy and use very few TC factory barrels anymore, but only because it is also true that I shoot very little other than my wildcats now days. I still own a bunch of factory barrels and all of them performed fine when I did shoot them.

So who is being critical with little to no first hand experience with factory and custom barrels? And who is blowing the horn for a new company ALSO with little first hand experience?

No sale here.