Author Topic: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel  (Read 6072 times)

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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2007, 03:48:27 PM »
.It just takes time and a bunch of good reviews by many different people before they become generally accepted...and there will always be those that never accept them...just because of who makes them...or where they are made...That's life...and I don't bang my head against the wall any more trying to convince these folks about them...

 
And there are those folks who actually do understand that these foreign made products may very well have a standard of quality that merits the product can be accepted by the buying public. But just like the second world war, the Japanese lost the war, then won the economics with their thinking. They (the Japanese) have the American public so well immersed in the thinking that their products are superior to US products...that it's "generally accepted". Sad part is it's so far from the truth and the US economy suffers from it. But people believe what they want to believe...That's life...and I don't bang my head against the wall any more trying to convince these folks about taking their thinking to the next level.

Dave

Offline weasel

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2007, 06:09:39 PM »
Not too sure how smart of me it is to get in the middle of this debate, but Ladobe  has walked the walk, still does apparently. He is on a first name basis with "Ol' Sarge", Don Bower, considered by some to be the father of long-range pistol accuracy.  I've heard enough about Ladobe thru Don to dispel any doubts of his experience. Wildcats? Ladobe had more of Don's chamberings at one time than anyone else, only wonder what else he had. Long story short, this dude has sent lots of pills down the pipe.

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2007, 07:08:08 PM »
.It just takes time and a bunch of good reviews by many different people before they become generally accepted...and there will always be those that never accept them...just because of who makes them...or where they are made...That's life...and I don't bang my head against the wall any more trying to convince these folks about them...

 
And there are those folks who actually do understand that these foreign made products may very well have a standard of quality that merits the product can be accepted by the buying public. But just like the second world war, the Japanese lost the war, then won the economics with their thinking. They (the Japanese) have the American public so well immersed in the thinking that their products are superior to US products...that it's "generally accepted". Sad part is it's so far from the truth and the US economy suffers from it. But people believe what they want to believe...That's life...and I don't bang my head against the wall any more trying to convince these folks about taking their thinking to the next level.

Dave

How nice it is to be taken completely out of context just to make a post... ::) ::)

Why are you trying to start a debate on buying from this company again dave...Your real good at doing this to try to turn this into something it isn't...What I said has nothing to do with anything you have said...so...quite trying to change my meaning...

Quote
I think you have come away with a wrong impression...from what I have read here...most of the folks have a wait & see attitude about them...Sure there are some that think their custom barrels are better...and to them...they are..Heck...I have a couple custom barrels on my Handi's...and I know they are better than any store bought barrel made for them...so...I kinda know where they are coming from on that issue...and I know full well that in certain calibers...my Handi's will out shoot most as well...But...the point to remember is the only person that you have to convince about the Bergara barrels...is you...The debates about..."which is better" will always go on & on...and it's just a simple matter of perspective...and just because you don't see the need to spend more...doesn't mean others don't...It's not just a matter of buying the cheapest that shoots good...heck...if that was the case...I would only own Handi's..It's a matter of what you want...I don't think any one is less competent for choosing not to spend more money...or have ever said you can't voice your opinion on it either...What I am saying is for folks to try to understand where the others are coming from...and try to read thru the rhetoric...Some folks prefer custom barrels...just as you prefer non custom barrels...Some folks like Chevy's...others prefer Cadillac's...Buy and shoot what makes you happy and fills your freezer...and don't worry about anyone that doesn't approve of what you choose to shoot...they aren't the ones who are pulling the trigger..nor are they the ones who are wanting to find out about the Bergara barrels...Just because some don't agree with you or are hesitant to put their stamp of approval on them..isn't a bad thing...It is just a process that takes place on just about any new product...It just takes time and a bunch of good reviews by many different people before they become generally accepted...and there will always be those that never accept them...just because of who makes them...or where they are made...That's life...and I don't bang my head against the wall any more trying to convince these folks about them...

Don't try to put any other spin on my meaning...it isn't going to fly...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2007, 02:08:59 AM »
And there are those folks who actually do understand that these foreign made products may very well have a standard of quality that merits the product can be accepted by the buying public.

Mac,

And if you read what I said (I have taken the important part and put it in bold print above) I did not disagree with you. I think what you stated is correct. There is no room to debate what you have stated. I will take time and many different individuals to buy, shoot and give their thoughts on these products before they become accepted or rejected by the buying public.  'Nuff said.

My statement was, and still is that I am tired of banging my head against the brick wall, in a vain attempt to raise awareness of how buying foreign effects the US economy. Yeah, it's a tiny little piece of the economy...but ours none the less.

No debate. You have your opinion, I have mine. 'Nuff said. I'm not going to debate anything on this matter any longer. That has been done on another post. However, there are two sides to every issue. You have your side and someone else out there has another. And the last time I looked, that other side could be expressed on this forum.

Don't try to put any other spin on my meaning...it isn't going to fly...

I don't even know what this means! Like what.....my Dad use to say this to me when I was 8 years old. If you don't like your thinking to be challenged, then just say so. But don't think that using using some type of indirect threat will prevent anyone from saying your thinking is not right. There is no red "S" on your chest.

Dave

Offline sweetwyominghome

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2007, 02:56:04 AM »
weasel wrote: "Not too sure how smart of me it is to get in the middle of this debate, but Ladobe  has walked the walk, still does apparently. He is on a first name basis with "Ol' Sarge", Don Bower, considered by some to be the father of long-range pistol accuracy.  I've heard enough about Ladobe thru Don to dispel any doubts of his experience. Wildcats? Ladobe had more of Don's chamberings at one time than anyone else, only wonder what else he had. Long story short, this dude has sent lots of pills down the pipe"


Not to be overly-critical, but your post has no direction other than a little kissing up. Others have just as much or more experience with every facet of the TC game -- and yet that fact, too, bears NO significance here.

As to the Bower cartridges, they aren't the final word on hunting, long range target or silhouette cartridges, either.

Yes, I've worked with them and had decent results (there's still a 6.5 SB version in the back of my safe). But those results did not overshadow cartridges I was already shooting. But some phenomenal velocity claims have been made for them, and the designer himself admitted stretching a few frames.

Ladobe has enough experience to know not to red-line things in the Contender. Unfortunately, others  out there do not. A couple of years ago, I bought a Contender collection from a self-professed long range aficianado that included 2 Bower barrels (rechambers, as are most of the Bowers out there) and 2 frames. BOTH frames were significantly stretched. That stretching did not come from a single round but instead from a steady diet of overzealous loads.

And you know what he told me? "Well, I judged the pressures like you are supposed to: I checked the primer pockets. If they aren't loose after one load, then it's OK."
That told me all I needed to know about his Contender "expertise..."

Yep, he owned and shot wildcats, but he didn't understand a single thing about the guns he fired them in, either.

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2007, 03:04:55 AM »
And there are those folks who actually do understand that these foreign made products may very well have a standard of quality that merits the product can be accepted by the buying public.

Mac,

And if you read what I said (I have taken the important part and put it in bold print above) I did not disagree with you. I think what you stated is correct. There is no room to debate what you have stated. I will take time and many different individuals to buy, shoot and give their thoughts on these products before they become accepted or rejected by the buying public.  'Nuff said.

My statement was, and still is that I am tired of banging my head against the brick wall, in a vain attempt to raise awareness of how buying foreign effects the US economy. Yeah, it's a tiny little piece of the economy...but ours none the less.

No debate. You have your opinion, I have mine. 'Nuff said. I'm not going to debate anything on this matter any longer. That has been done on another post. However, there are two sides to every issue. You have your side and someone else out there has another. And the last time I looked, that other side could be expressed on this forum.

Don't try to put any other spin on my meaning...it isn't going to fly...

I don't even know what this means! Like what.....my Dad use to say this to me when I was 8 years old. If you don't like your thinking to be challenged, then just say so. But don't think that using using some type of indirect threat will prevent anyone from saying your thinking is not right. There is no red "S" on your chest.

Dave

I'm sorry...I didn't read it as that...Your right...it is a small piece of the economic pie...not enough to really matter against the entire production of American arms being produced..When I said it isn't going to fly...is not an indirect threat...but a flat out statement...which means I am not going to let it go unchallenged...Sure...I know full well different opinions can be stated..I have no issue with that and welcome it....but taking only a small part of what a person said and spin it around to suit your way of thinking isn't an opinion...it is taking what a person said out of context...and in your case...trying to tie what I said...to your economic worries & statements is where I am coming from on this...wither you agree with me or not...The point of the matter is you did...and the reason for my statements..I certainly don't feel how you do about the gun industries woes...The only way competition hurts a industry...is if they aren't prepared for it...If our gun industry has rested on their laurels...and not invested in their own infrastructure (new equipment)...and they fail...you can't put the blame on the consumer if he buys the lower priced merchandise...You own example of the Japanese shows just this principle...Their products became the defacto standard of quality over our very own...especially in the auto industry...and it took an oil embargo...and stiff competition to make those that were and still are..running our  companies into the ground to change and start re-investing in their equipment...Now that Winchester is again producing the Model 70 by ISO standards...let see if the rest will follow suit...I believe they either will...or continue to lose market share...and if they fail...then it will be like any other industry that has failed here...by the folks who run them and own them reaping the profits and not investing them back into the company...and running off over seas so they can use the cheaper labor force and pollute that countries water & soil & air...just as they have all along...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2007, 05:37:22 AM »
Mac,

You make some valid points. One clarification though, I did not "take a small part of your statement" to spin it to my way of thinking. I took your statement and emphasized how true a point you made! THEN....I went further and made my point of how this can and does effect American jobs. As simple as that. Nothing more nothing less.

You see, you and I are probably more alike than either of us would care to acknowledge.  Principled, ethical and opinionated. Nothing wrong with any of that.

Dave

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2007, 07:48:07 AM »
Mac,

You make some valid points. One clarification though, I did not "take a small part of your statement" to spin it to my way of thinking. I took your statement and emphasized how true a point you made! THEN....I went further and made my point of how this can and does effect American jobs. As simple as that. Nothing more nothing less.

You see, you and I are probably more alike than either of us would care to acknowledge.  Principled, ethical and opinionated. Nothing wrong with any of that.

Dave

Okeydokey...Now...getting back towards the threads intent a little......Hopefully more of these barrels will be shot on the Encore frames...so folks can see how they do...the good & the bad...I am sure there will be some that don't give good results...and I hope if & when they do show up...it is a comprehensive review showing the lock up measurements...what pins are being used...ect ...ect...all the pertinent stuff...not just " They're a POC " or stuff like that...Positive or negative...for those wishing to...drop Mark at BPI a e-mail and let him know...just put Graybeards in the subject line so he knows it's coming from here...Here's his e-mail address...mark@cva.com...he's pretty good at returning your e-mails...and really wants to hear from owners...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2007, 04:21:26 PM »
yeah this thread got way off topic. i still haven't got to buy one yet but when i do hopefully by next year i will post some results. i am wanting to here a little more and give it a little time before i choose the caliber because they may come out with one i like better.
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Offline locosmith

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Re: Murphys Law and a Crappy TC barrel
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2007, 01:26:34 PM »
Go to their site. I would think with ED Shileen involved, and the air gauging of the barrels they will be accurate, they Guarantee to shoot tighter than Factory. And there not cheap.  You have to buy a forearm, TC gives you one on their barrel Right.  All the reviews I read on Midway were good some fitting issues, not bad, I just ordered a 209 50 cal, we'll see; Everybody knows those are a problem at TC. My son has one but it took a lot of work to make it work.  Loco