Why would I buy a H&R/NEF rifle?

[PhilTX]

Hi. I'm new to this forum and after reading this, you may think I'm attempting to degrade the H&R/NEF rifle. That's not my goal in any way. I'd just like to understand why anyone would go out and buy one. This was, and it still may be, my next rifle purchase. I love the concept of one gun with so many interchangeable barrels and options. One shot is fine with me. The price is great considering the high prices of the other single shots on the market, but price isn't the only important factor with a new gun purchase. My gunsmith says they shoot great but he wants to sell me one. So I decided to do some research on the rifle first. There is no better place than this forum to do that. Frankly I'm disappointed in what I have read. I've owned most brands of rifles. I've bought used rifles and new, and I've had pretty good groups from most of them. I've shot many different calibers. I'll admit that some of them cost more than the NEF's but some didn't. I've read your comments and questions and see that the barrels are not stress relieved, they don't ring when hit with a plastic hammer. The groups are poor to bad, and the gun doesn't shoot good until after 60-80 rounds are fired thru it. I've read advice given to check the crown to see if there are any burrs or chips in the barrel, because the rifle is shooting such bad groups. They have heavy triggers that apparently cannot be adjusted or reduced by just any good gunsmith. So many owners are customizing the gun, so they're not happy with it the way it comes from the factory. Forearms that might need adjustment. Special time consuming cleaning of the bore before or while breaking the rifle in. The list of complaints or concens seems to go on and on. The 243 and 22-250 appear to be a total disaster in the NEF. I'm looking at these rifles as a gun for all seasons, varmint, deer, hogs, and maybe some squirrel.  Optional barrels are inexpensive, and there are so many options, but if they don't shoot well they're of little use. With so many things that are obviously wrong with this rifle from the factory, according to what you have written, the quality control and pure quality of the rifle is pretty bad. Has anyone out there bought this rifle, taken it to the range and had "great" groups right out of the box, purchased new barrels with the same results, and without all of the adjusting, cleaning, removing burrs, and all the other things that should be done at the NEF factory before this rifle is ever sold? I don't believe it's the gun owners responsibility to repair or enable a brand new gun or a brand new barrel before it can shoot well. It's the sellers responsibility. After reading your comments I can tell that there are allot of knowledable gun owners out there. But when you purchase this gun, you shouldn't have to be a gunsmith for this rifle to shoot right. That's the NEF factory's responsibility. To me, after reading your comments, they're not meeting their part of the bargain. It sounds like they just sell a product and you the buyer does the repairs. I like the idea of groups getting together for shoots with the same type rifle as the NEF owners on this forum do. I like the concept of this gun. But honestly, after wanting one so much, then researching the gun and reading what you the users say about it, I'm not sure. Please tell me something good about this little rifle. I just want to know why you buy this rifle after reading all that is apparently wrong with them. You have to admit, if you'll read the comments, questions, complaints and concerns on this rifle, on this forum, you'll understand my concern before I purchase, and possibly waste my money on one. I'm not stirring the pot. I just want to know if NEF has made any good rifles, not just rifles with the problems so many of you write about. Some of you will take this all wrong and that's OK. Maybe NEF should think about some of these things too. Buyers shouldn't have to repair their new guns. Buyers shouldn't have so many complaints on what should be controlled by their quality control before the gun ever leaves the factory.  Buyers should be able to take the gun out of the box and it should shoot right. You on this forum are the buyers, and after reading your forum, it seems that you just accept all the many problems that the factory seems so unconcerned about, like it's all part of the deal. Why? Thanks for listening, and sorry if I offended any owners, that's not my intent, but the NEF gun company should be offended and they should take notice. Their product does not get good reviews from you the buyer, yet you keep buying what they have to sell, and NEF doesn't appear to be doing much according to what you write, to reduce your complaints and correct their products problems. So why should I buy this gun?  Thanks

[Ditchdigger]

These Handi's are just that,very handi for a truck gun or other things.I have several and use them on quick hunting trips,but the bolt guns come out on the serious hunts. The Handi's are fun to shoot,and sometimes there very accurate,but they can also drive you crazy. If you're expecting 1" groups at 100 yds. you would probably  be dissapointed because most won't do it with factory loads,and not a whole lot of them will with good handloads. Expect about 1 1/2 to 2" groups is a good average for them,and you're not likely to be dissapointed. Most of the gun's that show up at our annuall PD shoot are bolts and a few AR 15's,and a few Handi's that shoot very good also.    Digger

[chucky52]

My story: bought a .223 and put a 6.5 x 20 scope on it. Most accurate rifle I've owned. Shot one doe with it, varmits, email and postal matches. Very good quality and value, with that in mind why would I buy a Thompson for double the price? I'm not one for switching barrels on an NEF. Thompson contender pistol, ok with barrel switching.

[quickdtoo]

I think this previous thread will answer your question.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,119559.msg1098396702.html#msg1098396702

[canon6]

Not to give you a short answer,BECAUSE.   Doug


and the are a hoot   

[LaOtto222]

First off welcome aboard. If you want a tack driver out of the box with factory ammo, your chances of being happy with it are not real good. It has happened with some, but most need to be hand loaded for or tweaked or both to get the highest potential accuracy out of them. Why are so many being sold? Why are there so many imitations? Knight, T/C, CVA, Rossi to name a few, have all come after the Handi was here. Some like the simplicity of a break open single shot. Some just plain like single shot rifles and do not want to pay $1000+ for a High Wall or Ruger #1. Some like to tweak their rifle. Some like to hand load to get the most accuracy out of their rifles. Some like to take their "cheap" rifle do the tweaks, do the hand loading and take it to the range and out shoot the guy next to them with a gun that cost 3 times as much. Everyone that likes Handi rifles has some thing that trips their trigger. There are others that buy a new or used rifle and simply give up after trying out a few things to get heir rifle to shoot well. It is not worth it to them. As far as problems go, there are problems with most "cheaper" guns. Take the popular Stevens 200, it is wildly popular, but it is not defect free. There have be feeding problems, it too, has a heavy trigger, (not as good as a Handi by they way), stock is very cheap looking, but there are people that just love them and would not trade them for any thing else, just like Handi owners. But again they are not for everyone. There are people on this forum that can take a new Handi and turn it into a tack driver in short order, because they have experience and know what they are doing. Like I said earlier some give up never to return. It is all a matter of expectations and what you are willing to do. If you want a gun that will put 5 into 1" or less inch straight out of the box with factory ammo, you will probably be disappointed. It can happen and does happen, there just is no guarantee. To get that kind of guaranteed accuracy you are going to pay much more. I just bought my second frame with 44 mag attached, I am going to be sending it in for a 444 and 22 Hornet barrels soon. I like the simplicity of the rifle. There are few guarantees in this life, buying a rifle is a crap shoot, even more expensive guns may not perform up to expectations. To each their own.

[45/70fan]

QUOTE: "Has anyone out there bought this rifle, taken it to the range and had "great" groups right out of the box"
We have three 45/70 Handi's in the family and they all shoot under 1" 3 shot groups at 100 yards if we do our part. None of them has been "tweaked". One wears a Leopould VXII 3-9X40, one a Simmons 4x32, and mine a Nikon Monarch 2-7x33.
I had a Browning A-Bolt that wouldn't shoot a factory load under 3", and I tried at least 10 different ones. After extensive work with handloads I finally got her shooting. High dollar and brand name doesn't always mean it's the best.

[rex6666]

i think you mostly hear the bad reports, i see some of these people on other forums bad
mouthing other guns and talking up the handi
these little guns are what they are, they are not 500yd all in one hole bench guns.
they can be hauled around in the truck for three weeks waiting on that shot, and do
what they are called on to do 150-200 yds 2-3" circle will kill all deer, and coyotes,bcats
most pdogs, i do not need to shoot mice a 200yds so 2-3" at 200yds works for me.

[Spanky]

You just don't get it do you??

These rifles invite the owner to get his/her hands dirty and do a little tinkering.
Change this- tweak that.  It's all part of the "Handi Experience"

You are right about some of them having issues, but you find that with $1000 guns too.

For the most part, these are good, reliable, no-nonsense rifles that are alot of fun.
Give them a try, you might just be surprised!!


Spanky

[MS Mule]

Well, I don't know why you should buy a Handi Rifle. However, I can tell you why I bought mine. I live in Mississippi where the Handi Rifle in any caliber of .38 or larger is legal to hunt deer with during our extensive primitive weapons seasons. I bought the 45/70 synthetic and with the exception of using JB Bore cleaner to polish the barrel before firing it is box stock. No fore arm work, no barrel floating and no trigger job. I do handload for it as I do for all my centerfire rifles. I get 1" to 1 1/4" groups with a load of IMR 4198 pushing a 300 gr. Hornady Interlock at 2050 fps muzzle vel. The rifle is compact and ambidextrous which comes in handy hanging on the side of a tree in woods where deer can come from any direction. Because of this feature I used it extensively during our regular gun season last year leaving several bolt guns in the safe. After the season was over I sent the receiver in to have a 30/06 barrel fitted for it. After polishing up that barrel as I do for all my new rifles not just Handis I worked up some handloads for that barrel. I shot the second best group I've ever shot with it. .31" center to center. That target is taped on the wall over my loading bench next to my best ever group shot with a well tweaked, pillar-bedded, trigger-jobed fire-lapped bolt gun chambered for my favorite deer cartridge the .270Win. It measures .16"  CTC. I bought the 45/70 to take the place of my muzzle-loader during our primitive weapons season. In the past I'd never considered a Handi-Rifle. I am very happy with mine and will use it extensively this coming hunting season. I may be selling some nice bolt guns soon.

[OR-E-Gun Bill]

"So why should I buy this gun?"

Based on your rather lengthy post, pointing out all the bad things about H&R/NEF and their Handi Rifles, and the obvious time you've spent researching/reading all the negative aspects of this fine $250.00 rifle, I would have to reply: You Shouldn't!


Bill

[handi243]

I have a 243 that SHOOTS and is ugly as kissing your sister!! the rifles a inexpensive 200.00 to 300.00 dollars. That is what they are inexpensive(factory) rifles i know if i climb in my tree stand and drop my rifle sure feels better that dropping a 1000.00 to 2000.00 dollar setup. No there not benchrest rifles thats not what there were made for. Go buy one if you don't like it i'm sure someone here will take it off you hands. By the way i worked at a gun store and sold a 243 to a guy he returned it about a week later saying it would not shoot we let him trade it in on a bolt gun we even got the box of ammo back we sold the rifle to a another guy for his son first week 3 dead deer.

[dcewolf]

I'm like MS Mule... I don't know why you should buy one but can tell you why I bought and love mine....  I have a .243 with a simmons 3-9X40 on it --- I have yet to miss or not have a deer go down with a shot from this gun.  It is a sturdy and economical tool that I'm not afraid to drag out in the rain, snow, or mud hiking through the mountains.  I'm definitely not gonna cry if it gets dropped and scratched or dinged like I would with my other higher priced guns.  So for me it is a very practical and useful firearm...  I wouldn't call it a tack driver -- Im sure folks have 'em that are ....but mine always does what it's supposed to do without spending a small fortune on it, so I'm happy.  

[tn_junk]

I have a .30-30 Handi that I picked up on closeout at a local retailer for $150 back in 1995 (or 96). Like it so much I let my "expensive" .270, .300 mag and others sit and gather dust ever since. It's accurate enough, easy to carry, and just plain fun. I just spent more on a scope than I originally spent on the rifle because my old eyes just can't see the front sight anymore.
If you want to spend $500, go ahead and get a Remington, Ruger, etc. They are fine guns. But a Handi will kill just as well for a lot less.

alan

[darat100]

If you want small little groups, it will probably take some work, and from what I have read, you don't seem like the type that would enjoy that.  I however, don't wory about groups.  I shoot game.  I have yet to get one that wouldn't shoot minute of deer with any factory ammo walmart has on the shelf.  Prairie dogs at 300-400 yards, I am kinda doubting it without a lot of work.  Only you can decide if this is the gun for you.  I honestly caved in and bought a marlin 336 in 35 rem a couple of months ago.  That is the only NON handi I own.   I have been one of the lucky ones.  I have yet to have one that had any real problems.  I think I have been through about 20 at this point and all good game shooters.  I only had one however that a bench shooter would have been proud of.

[burntmuch]

All the tweaking you re taking about? You re looking at maybe 2 hrs work, if that. To me thats a good value. out of box accuracy I had a 308 standard contour  O tweaking  1/2 inch group Sold it to help with CHRISTmas one year . Right now all my handis are 2-3 inch guns. I  just started reloading ,& havnt had time to TWEAK them . If I was you Id buy one if you dont like it sell it here.  Id like to have a 308 standard contour barrel , so start there.   Jay


     PS You wont find a better treestand gun

[PartsMan]

If you don't like them after all that resurch.

Don't buy one.

You're not the type.

[dumgunny]

  I wonder who is going to be the most disappointed? The guy who buys a handi in 30/30  for $200 and goes happily along filling his tag every year while not worrying about whether he could have hit a precise vein in its heart at 300 yds, or the guy who opts for the latest $1000 wonder-rifle and finds that it will do MOA at best?
 
I have owned dozens of new rifles from all the "big guys" and I have to tell you, that other than the Remington 788's, and Savage 110's, I have to say the accuracy is at least as big a crap shoot as the Handis. It often comes down to a specific load, or primer, or powder, a million other things

  Not that I don't love the craftsmanship and beauty,of the Ruger products for example. But anyone who's owned more than one knows durn well they OFTEN need tuning out of the box!

   JMH2¢
BT 

[PhilTX]

To those of you that have given your reasons why you like the Handi rifle, and what has made it perform for you, I appreciate the replies. I knew I'd get some of the other type replies also. First, my subject was quite lengthly, and I was told I just don't get it, and that I'm not the type. It was lengthy, and you're right, I don't get it. I don't understand why the factory doesn't take care of those little two hour tweaking jobs to improve the rifle for the customer. I realize it's not a Ruger 1 and not as expensive but it is a product that should be ready from the factory. I've owned alot of guns that I've tweaked, worked on, and repaired so you really don't have a clue about me being the type to own a Handi or not. I've probably owned and own now, as many and maybe more guns than alot of  people out there. That said, after some good replies, I understand the reasoning that some of you have for owning the Handi. Yes, I do like a tack driver. Don't we all? I do like to shoot off the bench, but I'm a hunter, not a bench shooter. Some of you have told me that you've improved your guns with very little work. But the negative that I brought up was not from any other forum, any other group that doesn't like Handi rifles, or from any other group of individuals. I found it all right here on this NEF forum, your forum. I research what I buy, and I've gotten my research from you. Please, if you're going to post all the negative, then don't get upset when someone questions it.

[andrewtheelder38]

Hey Phil T:  I am not much of a "tinkerer" but I am a handloader and I have been "collecting" and shooting and hunting with Handi rifles for about 15 years.

I think the thing that attracts me to the handi rifle most is the single shot design.  It is a very thrifty gun to shoot as it is not semi automatic and slows your ammo usage way down.  It is very short and easy to carry and handle while hunting.  It is of course, quite cheap by modern standards, and used ones can be had for about 175-225 dollars in most cases.  the only other guns that are that cheap are used savage bolt guns and military surplus rifles which are hard to mount a regular scope to.

I am not a great shot.  When i compete in military rifle matches I always finish near the bottom of the group.  However, I generally can hit a 3-inch clay pigeon with any rifle out to 100 -125 yards even off hand.

that is good enough for 99 percent of whitetail hunting in my area and will also suffice for most wood chuck hunting..

The handi is not too impressive but my experience has been that it can shoot as well as is needed and as well as most rifles costing more.

Remember, the trigger is the single most important factor effecting rifle and shooter accuracy and the handi has a good trigger out of the box and the factory will reduce and smooth it alot for just a few bucks.

the single shot is not everyone's cup of tea, but I think if you try one in a medium bore caliber like 243/30-30/.270 or 7mm-08 you will find very quickly that it will become your favorite rifle to shoot.

I have military style rifles and antique mausers and handis and a few other sporting/hunting rifles and the handi is still my favorite to handload and shoot.

[czvz]

I felt the same way you do, read my post from a few months ago


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,122492.msg1098420243.html#msg1098420243

After trying different ammo makes and weights things have improved slightly...Im not as disenchanted as I once was but Im not overly happy either.  I would go into with the idea that you will have to tweak and experiment.  Then if its accurate out of the box,all the better.  Good luck!

[MOGLEY]

Phil t,
I think your assessment is pretty much on target. First I like the single shot aspect. I started with the handi because I thought.. they were as accurate as more expensive guns but suffered only in the fit and finish category. Fit and finish is not as important as accuracy in my book. I have bought a few of them now and am in the process of the tweaking you have talked and read about as well as handloading. For me it is a hobby. I like reloading and experimenting with fast vs light to heavy loads etc. My time in the shop is as enjoyable as someone elses fishing time for example. New Handi's around here are $230.00. I notoriously put $100.00 scopes on them so for $350.00 I have a rifle. Now a buddy of mine buys $700.00 guns and puts $800.00 scopes on them. He spends no time on loads and we have fun shooting. Having said all that I do wish these rifles were pure magic out of the box for the price.
Handis are like the wife you pick; you know there are prettier ones out there but you hope in time and with a little work, you can get the one you picked to be decent enough to keep!

[cowboyup453]

I don't understand why the factory doesn't take care of those little two hour tweaking jobs to improve the rifle for the customer.

For the same reasons the other manufactures don't. I have yet to see one company that is perfect all the time. So why do these company's allow the bad ones out of the factory?

Why would I buy a H&R/NEF rifle?

I don't know the only person that can answer that question is you. Why do I buy them? Because I like single shots and they are very affordable for me. I am not a bench rest shooter I am a hunter. I have yet to own one that wont shoot MOPD,MOD, or MOE(minute of prairie dog, deer, or elk).
 

[Badnews Bob]

Because they are fun. The tweaking is fun, the way they handle is fun, and when you drop a 225lb 8 pt buck at 100 yards with a .45-70 and your buddies eyes get real big cause you just did that.......ITS FUN.

[burntmuch]

To each is own. Id try & find a used one $175 or so. Give it a try. If its not for U I can almost guarantee you can part it out here & probably make a couple bucks. Be Careful  though. Their addictive. Ive been playing around with them for a year or so. Ive ended up with  45/70 30-06 243 20guage USH 357MAX & looking for a 35 whelen. Youve been warned.

[stimpylu32]

PhilTX

First off , Welcome to GBO . Should you buy a Handi , that anwser i can't give you , you must deside for yourself . Are they fun guns ? yes , Will every one shoot MOA or better out of the box ? heavens no  , should they ? probably .

The point that i'm trying to make is that for what they are and what they cost , your not going to find a better value . Yes they could be made to inter-change like a TC or some of the other brands but at what cost ? If your willing to pay $ 200 + for a barrel and another $ 250 for a frame then why buy an H&R , go for the TC's , you'll probably be happy .

I for one like the TINKER FACTOR that comes with the Handi's , you can mix and match barrels , stocks and just about all the other parts to come up with a one of a kind rifle .

I started a little over 3 years ago with my first in a 223 BB that shot sub 3/4" right out of the box with factory ammo , and its been all down hill from there .

22LR
22 mag x 2
218 BEE ( re-chamber )
223 BB
22-250
243 SL
270 x 2
25/06
32 H&R mag ( re-bore & re -chamber )
30/30
7.62 x 39
45/70

And coming soon a 22 Hornet barrel that will be re-chambered to 224GNR . out of this list there is not one that will not shoot 2" or less at 100 yards , most will shoot MUCH better .

Now don't get me wrong , i have a few custom bolt guns that any one of them costs more than all the Handi's combined , but for the most part they never leave the gun room anymore .

Bottom line , Should H&R do a better job at QC ? yes !!!!!  Will they make it right if there is a problem ? Hell yes !!!!!!!!

Stimpy

 

[snmann]

Just like most things, you get what you pay for. If I were shooting 300 yards matches, a Handi wouldn't be my first choice.  I buy them for my kids because they are fun, safe, inexpensive, & reliable  firearms.   Many people on this sight are trying to get the very MAX out of their Handi's.  
  
A deer won't know the difference at a 100 yards if the gun shoots 1/2" or 1" groups.  From my experience & reading this forum, the 30-30 Handi is a tack driver.  It will shoot tight groups out of the box.

If you want a gun that has a "guarantee" of shooting 100 yard sub-1" groups, buy a Tikka or Sako.  But then again, the Tikka's run over $500 & a Sako is over $1000    

[Jimbo47]

I've always had bolt guns with the exception of having a couple single shot bolt .22's, and growing up  using single shot 16 and 12 ga. shotguns.

I wanted a .243 for a long time, and thought about maybe a single shot Handi might be a good idea.

I found one in the local gun shop that was new, and at a good price and took the plunge.

That was two months ago, and not it's tucked away in the safe wearing a new 7MM-08 barrel I bought off the classifieds and it's primed and ready for the deer season opening this weekend.

No, I can't tell you that both barrels that I have are tack drivers, because they are not, and probably won't ever be as long as I'm looking down the sights, but they are accurate enough for me, and that is what is important.

I really enjoy hunting with the little rifle, and it just handles, and carries well, and you won't ever have to worry that you might bump or scrape it, because it's a blue collar rifle, and it can take it!

When you feel confident in a firearm, that is all that matters.

[NMUltra]

Phil,

Your perception that a Handi is risky purchase based on all the negative comments found on this forum is in part a skewed or biased sampling problem - Folks often post here looking for help with a problem, therefore many posts reflect negative issues encountered with the guns.  You don't see too many active threads that get started with "My new handi is a shooter right out of the box..." because there's really not much to talk about after that.  I seem to remember a poll a while ago that asked questions about gun quality and owner satisfaction, maybe Tim can dig it up - That would probably be a better statistical gauge to use.

FWIW, my .223 UV was a great shooter out of the box, especially with the late, lamented Winchester White Box ammo.

[Chilachuck]

One receiver (so it counts as one rifle) and a dozen chamberings for about $1500. Also 12G and a .50 muzzle loader barrels. That means a wide variety of ammo can be used, though not quite as many as I'd like (7.62x39, .45ACP, and 9mm esp).

Single shot. It'll be one of the last firearms outlawed.

That transfer bar worries me, though. Factory fit only.