Why would I buy a H&R/NEF rifle?

[trotterlg]

You would buy a Handi rifle if you also enjoy root canals, opera and colonoscopies.  Now if you like to play with a dirt simple rifle you are in business.  Larry

[PHATINJUN]

You are absolutely right you will not be happy with one. Had  you read all that you say you did you would of answered all your own ?'s and found that this gun is not for you but thanks for the input. All I know is after having an encore for years I sure shoot my Handi's a bunch more.Kurt

[PhilTX]

I made a phone call today to a relative that I only get to see about once a year now. He used to be a government hunter, and he may still be, I forgot to ask. He did varmint control for coyotes, cats, etc. Everything from chemical bombs and trapping, to calling and shooting them. I've hunted deer and hogs and shot with him in the past and he is a shooter. I asked him the same questions I've asked y'all. First has he ever owned a Handi rifle, and he's bought three. I didn't know he owned even one. Second what does he think of them. His answer was this. Out of the box, after a good cleaning, one regular barrel 223 shot 3 inch groups. He reduced that to 2 inch groups with a little work, but no better. His 223 bull barrel shoots 1 inch groups. And the 22-250 stainless shoots groups you can cover with a dime, off the bench consistantly. He said if I can stand the weight, knowing me, because I demand so much out of a gun, the bull barrel might be better a better choice. He told me that when he was so busy hunting varmints he left his expensive rifles, about 30 of them, in the safe and used his Handi's. Why? For the same reasons y'all have given, they're fun to shoot, easy to carry and use, and with a shooter behind it, will do about anything the high dollar guns will do on varmints and local game. With that, and with what many of you have told me, I'm going to buy one in 223. I'll tinker with it until I either like it or I won't. Now to decide if I want the bull barrel or not. I know I'm  kindof a hard sell but when I buy any gun, expensive or not, I like to know what I should expect from it. I'm a firm believer in quality control from every gun company, and I like getting my money's worth. I love a gun that shoots right and I have absolutely no use for one that doesn't. Thanks for your help. 

[PhilTX]

P.S. Phatinjun I didn't say I wouldn't like one, I only wanted to know why so many of you buy them with so much negative about them on this forum. I got my information right here. I'm going to buy one. Many of the replies were helpful, and some weren't.  --- And Trotterlg I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

[SM Bob]

PhilTx,
I recently got into Handi's. My first one I got was a 223 Bull Barrel. I love this rifle.  In fact I haven't had
this much fun with my firearms in many years. Thanks to all the great people and the fantastic info from
this site I have done a trigger job and rtv bedded my forend. I also refinished the stock and forend. I'm in
the process of working up some reloads for it right now. This gun is going to be a real shooter. I like
these Handi's so much I went out and got a 17HMR Sportster and ordered a 22 Hornet. When the guys
here tell you these rifles are addicting they aren't kidding! I say go for the Bull Barrel 223 you will love it.

                              Robert

[cascadedad]

Flitz barrel job:  One SHORT evening of, well, almost fun.  Cost:  Let's just say $10.  A trip to the store to get a tube of Flitz.  Result: a barrel that is ready to shoot without worrying about if you have to shoot 100 rounds or so to "shoot it in".

Trigger job:  One evening of fun.  Cost: Let's just say $10.  A trip to the hardware store to get some slave pin material.  Result: a SWEET trigger.

RTV bed job:  One evening of fun.  Cost:  Let's just say $10.  Trip to a store to buy a tube.  Result:  Very consistent groups and can shoot off the forearm instead of the hingpoint.

Finally: The addition of a Limbsaver De-Resonator.  Cost:  $15 or so.  Result:  Took my 223 heavy barrel from shooting 1 1/4" groups to << 1" groups with factory ammo.  More testing could prove even better results.

Now, you could probably make one trip to Walmart and buy the whole supply list for about $30.

VERY llittle time,,,,,,VERY little money,,,,,,and I have a shooter.

Oh, I did add a $115 Mueller APV also.  GREAT OPTICS for the money.

END RESULT:: ~$400 rifle/scope combo with MY work for a sub-MOA rifle.  Not bad.

[jlbeebe]

I won a handi at a turkey banquet. Accuracy is so,so. I sent it in for a muzzy barrel. Took forever to get it back and when I did get it back it was the wrong barrel length. I also got a walnut forearm. The rifle is laminate. They said they would send me a new laminated forearm but they never did. They said they would exchange my barrel for the shorter one I ordered in the first place if I wanted to go through this whole process again. It took three months the first time so I decided to keep what I had and I will not be buying another H&R\NEF product.

[Mac11700]

PhilTX...

Welcome aboard..

First...let me say that you can get a Handi that is a sub moa shooter right out of the box...several folks have...myself included...The reason you see a lot of negativity here is a real simple reason...folks like to find answers to problems...folks like to correspond with like minded folks...and folks like to bellyache for attention..

You have made some false assumptions about all of these rifles

You said;

So I decided to do some research on the rifle first. There is no better place than this forum to do that. Frankly I'm disappointed in what I have read.

Thanks to Graybeard...for allowing us here in the first place....without him...we wouldn't have had a home to go to after the shut down the original H&R forum...Yes...we have worked hard at making this one of the best places to discuss these rifles...and If you have indeed done your research here...you should already know that there are just as many folks happy with these rifles...as there are that aren't...Why haven't you noticed that...instead of just dwelling on all of the negative...Surely you could see that there are just a few calibers/models that have given folks fits...but you haven't...so instead...you really don't know anything about these rifles or their potential now do you......What you basically implying with your questions or doubts is that none of the Handi's are worth the time...because of what has been posted about them here...That don't hold water with me...I for one know how much good has been said about them...and how they have been rated against rifles costing thousands of dollars more...

Second...you said...

I've read your comments and questions and see that the barrels are not stress relieved, they don't ring when hit with a plastic hammer.

...Exactly where did you read this...? What company representative told you they weren't...

Third...you said...

The groups are poor to bad, and the gun doesn't shoot good until after 60-80 rounds are fired thru it.

...I beg to differe with you...I have several that I have done nothing more than free float the barrel and can achieve sub 1/2" groups with factory ammo...Name 1 rifle that it's parent company will say theirs is any different for the same price...NO rifle company will honor this...Send any rifle costing under $1500...to any company...telling them you have only fired 80 rounds thru it with out proper cleaning or break in...and see what they tell you...... I guarantee if you do send it in..they will fire way over that...and send it back to you with a test target proving nothing is wrong with it...Call Sako...Call Weatherby...Call Kimber...ask them...I know...I have talked to them...and also  Winchester...and Remington...and Ruger...and Browning...I've been doing this for way longer than you can imagine...and I deal with these companies (with the exception of SAKO) on a regular basis...

Fourth..

I've read advice given to check the crown to see if there are any burrs or chips in the barrel, because the rifle is shooting such bad groups.

...Yes...this is standard advise...for any rifle...not just the Handi's...but also on rifles cost THOUSANDS...What's you point...? Are you not aware of this...hmmm?

Fifth...

They have heavy triggers that apparently cannot be adjusted or reduced by just any good gunsmith.

...This is ludicrous at best...Sure...you may get a heavy trigger from the factory many guns costing much much more are the same way...Where have you been that you don't know this?... Yes...it isn't adjustable...THEY NEVER HAVE BEEN...and you saying you researched these rifles...? BUT...the bit about not being able to be reduced by a good smith...come on...if you knew anything about how a trigger works and what a gunsmith does...you should know they can be...Who's kidding who here...?

Sixth...

So many owners are customizing the gun, so they're not happy with it the way it comes from the factory

...Again...so-what...do you honestly believe we are the only group of rifle owners that are into customizing our firearms?...and to equate that that we aren't happy with them as they come from the factory as something bad is assine...Apparently you really don't know anything about firearms...nor have you ever open most any gun magazine and not seen all of the parts available to trick out just about any gun made...Sheee's... So...to you...there must be something wrong with the rifle because of us wanting something different than what they are offering us...right...

Seventh..

Forearms that might need adjustment. Special time consuming cleaning of the bore before or while breaking the rifle in.

...See...this proves you really don't know anything about rifles...The forearms on these rifles is no different than any other rifle unless your talking a custom rig costing much much more...and as to special cleaning...if you don't understand the principle about why any one who cares about the rifles bore & proper conditioning...well...this speaks volumes about your self to me...and I assure you to many others here as well...

Eighth...

.The 243 and 22-250 appear to be a total disaster in the NEF

...again...you really haven't researched these calibers completely here...if you had...you would see that many of these are excellent shooters...just not up to some bolt gun standards on the 22-250...and only in the super lights on the 243's...

Ninth...

With so many things that are obviously wrong with this rifle from the factory, according to what you have written, the quality control and pure quality of the rifle is pretty bad. Has anyone out there bought this rifle, taken it to the range and had "great" groups right out of the box, purchased new barrels with the same results, and without all of the adjusting, cleaning, removing burrs, and all the other things that should be done at the NEF factory before this rifle is ever sold?

...Do you honestly believe that every rifle...(well into the millions ) have all of these problems that rifles from other companies don't share the same traits...by just what is posted here?

Tenth...

I don't believe it's the gun owners responsibility to repair or enable a brand new gun or a brand new barrel before it can shoot well. It's the sellers responsibility

...I see...so you want a guarantee...Sorry...you ain't going to get one from NEF ...nor will you get one from CVA...nor will you get one from T/C...nor will you get one from Ruger...that you will like...So...that leaves you with bolt guns...Oh...and good luck with the companies that do indeed give guarantee's...Been there...Done that...several times...you probably won't be happy with them either...and you most likely will be real PO'd if you get a lemon from them after spending as much as you did...

Eleventh...

To me, after reading your comments, they're not meeting their part of the bargain. It sounds like they just sell a product and you the buyer does the repairs.

....BS...what part of their warranty are they not honoring...? Sure we do a-lot of our own repairs...but there are countless thousands who don't touch them...ever...Again...you basing this assine assumption on what you have misinterpreted here...

Twelfth

But honestly, after wanting one so much, then researching the gun and reading what you the users say about it, I'm not sure. Please tell me something good about this little rifle. I just want to know why you buy this rifle after reading all that is apparently wrong with them. You have to admit, if you'll read the comments, questions, complaints and concerns on this rifle, on this forum, you'll understand my concern before I purchase, and possibly waste my money on one.

...BS...this is just selective reading on your part...Why do I know...because you don't have to go back very far to see all of the good talked about them...and your just reading and emphasizing  the problems...nothing more...

Thirteenth...

I'm not stirring the pot. I just want to know if NEF has made any good rifles, not just rifles with the problems so many of you write about

...I beg to differ with you...namely because if you truly had done your research...you would see most of the issues are minor...and the major issues are dealt with quickly...in just about every case...

Fourteenth...

Buyers shouldn't have to repair their new guns. Buyers shouldn't have so many complaints on what should be controlled by their quality control before the gun ever leaves the factory.  Buyers should be able to take the gun out of the box and it should shoot right. You on this forum are the buyers, and after reading your forum, it seems that you just accept all the many problems that the factory seems so unconcerned about, like it's all part of the deal. Why?

Simple...because most of us don't have problems with these rifles...and we treat them all the same...We who actually know about rifles already know that to achieve the absolute best accuracy from any massed produced gun will take some effort on our part...and it is very apparent you have absolutely no clue to rifles in general...otherwise you wouldn't be making these kinds of statements...no matter how strongly you come back later and say how many rifles you own...and try to defend this very first post of yours...Go to any forum any where...every manufacturer has q/c problems...it is a fact of life...sure...so have a good track record...but even the best rifles available have issues with them...and most folks won't moan and groan about putting out a little elbow grease on a $275 dollar rifle to get sub moa performance out of it...which many of them do...even though many folks can't shoot them as well as they are capable...Certain allowances have to be given because of the design of the rifle itself as compared to other makes...If you really had taken the time to research this rifle...you would understand this...Bedding a rifle is a common practice...with all types...same as floating the barrel...same as tuning the trigger...same as hand loading for perfection...Why is it your trying to act like the Handi is any different...If you have been at this any length of time...you would know the answers...

Fifteenth...

Thanks for listening, and sorry if I offended any owners, that's not my intent, but the NEF gun company should be offended and they should take notice. Their product does not get good reviews from you the buyer, yet you keep buying what they have to sell, and NEF doesn't appear to be doing much according to what you write, to reduce your complaints and correct their products problems. So why should I buy this gun?

...Again...more BS...their product does get good reviews from many of us...and others from around the world...and reading what has been posted here would tell this fact...if you really had bothered to read all of the good as well...not just the bad...A common sense approach is all you really need...as with any other firearm purchase...but your pretense here shows different reasoning I think...

Sixteenth ...

Some of you will take this all wrong and that's OK

...Well at least I'm glad you said this...cause that's about the only real sensible thing I believe you have said...Namely because your questions makes no sense to any one that knows about rifles in the first place...and second...you should know what a gunsmith can do...and third you should have a little knowledge if you really know anything about rifles about checking the barrel for obstructions and nicks on the crown...since you made this rebuttal post

I've owned alot of guns that I've tweaked, worked on, and repaired so you really don't have a clue about me being the type to own a Handi or not. I've probably owned and own now, as many and maybe more guns than alot of  people out there.

...like I said...who's kidding who...hmmm?

Let me say this...before you think I am needlessly slamming you...because I not really...I think you have some valid concerns...and I truly hope you go back and read what most of are really saying about these rifles...None of us are saying they are perfect...because they aren't...Yes...they do have some peculiarities...and some quality control issues...but this in NORMAL...for the low cost of the rifle...Many of us here do indeed love to tinker with them...but we are no different than the multitude of any others with all makes of rifles...We spend countless hours making them into more than just what the factory offers us...Why...because we can and like to make them better...just as any other hobbyist will do with something they like...Does every body do this...NO...they don't...many are happy with them straight from the box...Your acting like you shouldn't have to do anything to tweak any rifle...If this is the case because you haven't had too...then you are extremely fortunate...but you have to know your real lucky...and accept this fact....because the vast majority of rifle owners who are striving to have a massed produced rifle be the best...know damn full well they are going to have to invest some effort & time to make it as they want it to be...regardless of the manufacturer...

You can choose this path...but...if your expecting this rifle to be perfect...you most likely will be disappointed...and for the cost of a Handi...you won't always get a perfect one...Name me 1 rifle for this cost that you will...you can't...because there aren't any...period...We have made many suggestions to them over the years...and they have followed some of our suggestions and improved a few things on them...Can they do more...sure...Are they perfect...Nope...they aren't...but again...perfection comes at a steep cost...and that isn't what the Handi Rifle is about...It is about simplicity...It is about value...It is about being the best for what it cost...NEF has done an admirable job with them...Why expect much more for the same price...We help those here that what to have something better than what they get from the factory...and to help those who have correctable problems...that choose to take care of it themselves...it's part of learning...for those who wish to learn...and to be self sufficient...That's what we do here...If your not happy with having to expend some effort..then I can answer your question...about wither you should buy one...and that answer is a qualified no...you shouldn't...If on the other hand...you actually take the time...and really read how simple these rifles are to get to shoot good...and want to give it a go...then I say Yes...by all means give them a try...because they will surprise you...especially if you shoot them a while...Even those who have cursed them...still come here and talk about them...because they are addicting...and deep down they like the way they feel and balance in their hands...and how the do in the field...on all types of game around the world...As for some of the posting here with all of the bad things being said...well...that is the internet for you...and you will find some folks complaining just to here themselves complain...and to start an argument...The main difference here is our members...most of us know rifles...and know them well...We also know perfection comes at a cost...and the decision has to be made if we want to invest to attain it...Sometimes we are successful...other times we aren't...but...this is with any endeavor we take in life...

That choice is yours...

Mac

 

[Spanky]

That just about sums things up I think!!


Spanky

[JKump]

I have had two Handis. The 1st was a 243 ultralite, it shot fined but I wanted a 308.  Got a 308 Survivor, only thing I done was change to a Monte Carlo stock.  I do not have time to do all the extra stuff.  I cleaned and use factory ammo.  it shoots 1" groups all day.  More than enough for deer.

[PartsMan]

Single shot. It'll be one of the last firearms outlawed.

I had not thought of that.

[rex6666]

mac, mac, mac
if i ever need a lawyer, i will not waste time looking in the phone book.
i think you have covered it quite well.

[quickdtoo]

Extremely well said Mac, Bravo!!

Tim

[PHATINJUN]

Mac that has got to be the very best answer that I have ever seen posted on this subject I sure would like to see that put into a sticky or something because it is a statement that I would bet 90% of us wish we could convey. I would personally like to thank you for your comments . Thank you Kurt

[jwv]

I guess it all depends on how you want to look at things. If you only want to see negative things that is what you will see and find. I like to research things here on this forum to but maybe its just me but I see more POSITIVE comments about Handis and the NEF company then I do negative. Most all who deal with   NEF  post good comments as to how they are treated and the service they receive. 
       When I bought my 204 Ruger it shot great right out of the box 3/4" and 1/2" groups with factory ammo. I did free float the barrel and eventually done the trigger to a lighter pull. I also have Remington's, Winchesters and other rifles that I have done the same thing to mainly to get the best accuracy I can. I think we all want the best we can get out of our rifles,It's no different with a Handi.
         The Handis are good at what they offer which is a good basic straight forward gun that one can take to the field and hunt with, they do the job very well. It has been said that the company people from NEF come to this site to read the comments from those who use their products and I think they do listen to them.I have always said that was good.
      My next Handi will be a 25-06 in the ultra model with the 26" heavy barrel.I have confidence in the NEF products and consider them to be a good buy for the money. This will be my second Handi but I'm not getting addicted to them.              Jack

[Tunaman]

Much Like MS Mule, I too bought my 47/70 for the MS primitive arms season.  I put a Ziess Conquest 3x9x40 on it and headed to the range. With hornady LE rounds I had shot 3,4,5 touching each other at 50 yards. I moved the target to 100 and the group didn't open much at all. Since, I have shot the gun a fair amount and it has never let me down. She has taken 7 deer in 2 years as well as several hogs. When I bought her, she was the only reasonably priced option that was legal for our season. I was well aware that she may not be the most accurate gun that I would own but I was pretty sure that she would be servicable. I was wrong, she was a shooter right out of the box. I too now polish the bore of all of my new guns, this gun was never polished. I in fact spent less energy into getting this gun to shoot, (read none)  than several guns that I have spent 3 or for times as much on. I know that this is the exception but that is my story. The only thing that I will add, is that with every gun that I buy, I inspect it thoroughly before taking it home. If you see obvious flaws, do not buy the gun. Your gun dealer can order another if the first one isn't right.   

[PhilTX]

I've already said, because of the good replies here, that I'm going to buy a Handi. I tried not to make my original post personal towards any gun owners, hunters and shooters here. My comments were toward the quality control, accuracy problems, and what I believe is some sloppy craftsmanship that I've read about right here on Graybeard. To find those problems you only have to go back thru the many posts here. I believe that many of these problems can be taken care of at the NEF factory and should be. Many are not. It's true that other manufacturers have the same problems. So since they do, does that justify the Handi's problems? Since another gun maker is sloppy does that give NEF or any other gun company the green light to be sloppy too. We're talking quality. And no matter the price of the gun, it is a gun and should be given that extra care at the factory. Shouldn't these manufacturers contol that quality? Shouldn't they demand better from their own people and send out the very best product possible? Too many things today are about getting as much of the product out to make as much profit as possible. I like profit as much as the next guy. But is it OK to skimp on the quality of any firearm? Since my original post, there have been several replies that agree with me. So not everyone here is on the (whatever NEF or any other gun maker sends out is OK, I'll fix it myself) band wagon. Why would anyone accept these things and say it doesn't bother me, it's OK I'll take care of it, I'll fix it myself. You're the buyer and no matter what brand of gun, you shouldn't have to do your own repairs on a new gun. Those that accept that it's the buyers responsibility to make the gun right are the very reason the makers don't improve that product. They would do more if buyers demanded more. ------------ MAC, you made this kindof personal. I wish you hadn't. I didn't intend for that to happen but since you did, her's back at you. It must have taken you a LOOOOONG time to break my post down sentence by sentence. Thanks for all that effort, but you're not as great an attorney as one of your buds claims. Please call the facrtory and ask them about the barrels. Ask them about stress. Tell us what you find out. I have to say that without a doubt you are the best possible representative that NEF has. Do they pay you? They should. Since you're a moderator here I'd guess you keep in touch with NEF by frequently checking on your guns that are in for repairs and problems, or maybe you do all your own repairs that should be done before leaving the factory. Maybe you call or email the factory regularly and tell them to read your posts about how you stand up for them. I'd bet you are on a first name bases with the NEF people too. You are the worst kind of NEF gun owner there is in my opinion MAC. You apparently just accept the problems these guns have, because they're all part of the "Handi" deal, and again those many problems are posted right here on Graybeard. You as a moderator should read them sometime. Someone at NEF no doubt reads these forums and since you do accept the idea that you should do the work they should be doing, you might possibly get a pat on the back, maybe a new stock and forearm, a simple thank you, or maybe something extra special in the mail from them. I don't know that for sure MAC but I figure you reap some rewards. You're exactly what they're looking for. You're what every gun manufacturer or any product manufacturer is looking for, someone that will say what the company wants to here. That way they don't have to improve their product. They have you out there. Companies keep sending out sloppy work because of guys like you MAC. You accept it and obviously love it, but not all of us do. After this reply MAC, your buds will come to your rescue again and agree with whatever you have to say. So say it! They gave you a pat on the back after your precious post, and if I researched it, I'm pretty sure they regularly agree with you on most things. Some of them might be just like you. All of us are not. Post what you want MAC. This is my last reply to you. You're the moderator.  Do what you like, just like you do what NEF likes. If there are this many problems with this gun just here on this forum MAC, just think of all the Handi owners that never read, post or even get on a computer to talk about them. Are there other Handi forums MAC? If so, I bet there are the same problems and complaints there too. That's OK MAC, they have you here at this forum. You'll take care of any questions regarding quality that come up here. They know that.   How's all that for personal MAC?   To the rest of you that gave your reasons for liking the Handi, or regarding the problems you have had with it, I appreciate your posts. Thank you. Phil

[DalesCarpentry]

Here is how Handi owners responded to how they like their Handie's. Dale  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,127075.msg1098456325.html#msg1098456325

[cascadedad]

Phil, the Handi is what it is.  The facts of what it is, is laid out right here in this forum.  There is a LOT of good reports and some bad ones.  MOST people have very good luck with customer service while there are a few that have had a horrible experience.  Some of the higher dollar gun manufacturers have horrible customer service reputations as reported by almost everyone on the internet.

You mention all the "problems" that are reported on here and things everyone has to fix.  Many of these "problems" that you see are not quality problems in my mind.  As I said, they are what they are.  The problem is, one guy gets a rifle that will shoot 1/2" groups right out of the box and then someone else might think they should all come that way (it sure would be nice).  But, in manufacturing there are tollerances on everything.  Occasionally, all the stars will line up just right and you will have everything perfect and the person that gets that gun is extremely happy with the one-hole groups right out of the box.  On the other hand, you might have all the stars line up, BACKWARDS, and someone will get a terrible shooter.  While most fit somewhere in the middle.  Also, based on what I have read, the break action design might be a little less accurate and more finicky in many cases than a bolt action, just because of the design.  You should know that going in.  Again, THE HANDI is what it is.  It is simple and HANDI, that is one of the things that some people very much like about them.

Regarding trigger pull which is pretty easy to tweak even for a novice.... you must compare to other guns.  Many factory guns have horrible triggers.  They are that way for a reason.  It would cost significantly more to produce the consistent light trigger.  This increased cost would be passed on to the buyer.  Then they have the liability of a very light trigger to deal with.  There are some people that do not want a light trigger.  Personally, I have one Savage with an accu-trigger and I like it, but others hate it.

With the Handi, the trigger is often heavy out of the box, but as I proved to myself, they can be turned into a fantastic trigger in one evening.

Out of the box accuracy, I believe for most of the Handis are not as good as many would like, but again, it is what it is to start with.  Many if not most from what I have read are somewhere between 1-3" out of the box.  With a little tweaking these numbers can be reduced drastically.  This tweaking is not time consuming or expensive and can be done by the novice, IF he wants to.  I'm a perfect example of that.

I don't think you can say that the tweaking is the result of a quality problem.  To me it is what you would expect for a $200-$300 break action rifle.

Some of the reports of horrible shooting Handis have been when people have bought used guns.  Just because the gun "looks good" on the outside doesn't mean it has not been damaged by the previous owner thus causing an accuracy issue.  This again can happen with any gun.

Regarding MAC.  If you read back through the history of his posts, I am sure you will find that at times he has been VERY critical of the manufacture.  And I mean VERY critical.  Maybe you didn't read back a few months ago.

I think what some of us saw when you made this in your post, as well as other statements,
""I'm not stirring the pot. I just want to know if NEF has made any good rifles, not just rifles with the problems so many of you write about"",
It very much appears that you are trying to stir the pot.  My experience tells me that MOST of the time, when someone (including myself) says they are not trying to stir the pot,,,,,,,,,they're trying to stir the pot.  You have done all the reading and yet you want to know if NEF has made any good rifles???  If you really have to ask that question after all the reading you did,,,,,well, it just doesn't make sense, why in the world would you even take the time to write the original post in the first place???  If I would have come to that conclusion while I was still lurking around here thinking about buying a Handi, I would have been gone and never looked back.  Think about it.

Now, to your original question, "Why would I buy a H&R/NEF rifle?"  This should be obvious after all the reading you have done, but I'll state the obvious.  You would buy one if you like the thought of having an inexpensive, single shot break action rifle.  One that is handi and simple in design.  One that you can modify the trigger to be what YOU want it to be for virtually no money in one evening.  One that will MOST LIKELY give you deer hunting accuracy right out of the box.  A rifle that can USUALLY be tweaked with a little work, BY THE OWNER, into a darn good shooter.  One that has a low initial cost and one that if you decide you don't like it you can sell and not lose a ton of money in the meantime.  One that you can buy other barrels for if you so desire (for me this was NOT a consideration).  I'm sure there are more reasons.

Now, Why wouldn't you buy one?  Well, if you want something that is going to impress people the second you open your gun case at the range, don't buy one.  If you want a gun that has the super high probability of being a tack driver right out of the box, don't buy one, but have an extra grand in your wallet when you go shopping.  If you don't want to do any tweaking and playing around with the rifle to make it a shooter, don't buy one.

If you read my recent thread on my last range report with my 223, Mueller APV and Deresonator, you can quickly get an overview of my experience with the one Handi Rifle that I have.  I bought the rifle with the plan of doing EXACTLY what I have done with it.  The fact that I have tweaked the rifle and made it shoot less than MOA gives me GREAT satisfaction.  Much more than if I would have went out and 3-4 times that much to get that kind of accuracy out of the box.  Also, I will continue playing with this rifle trying to get one hole groups, if I do then I'll be VERY HAPPY.  If I don't, I'll still be VERY HAPPY.  That's just who I am.  If that's the type of person you are, you'll like the Handi.  If not, you probably will not.

Not really sure why I spent the time typing all of this.  It has all been said before, at least once!

[OR-E-Gun Bill]

It has all been said before, at least once!

Quick, somebody go find the turnip wagon so we can all fall off of it again!


Bill

[quickdtoo]

[cascadedad]

Ah aint nevre sayed ah wuz smort!!!   

[45/70fan]

Try looking at it from another angle. Think of a Handi like most guys think of a new truck. It's ok as is but you want to tweak it. So you get bigger wheels, or a different stereo, a louder exhaust, a computer ship, etc. It's no different than bedding the forearm or lightening the trigger, etc. I don't care what you buy from whom or where, there is always room for impovement. From what I see the majority of the guys on here enjoy tinkering on these guns. 
As for Mac's statements, I don't see a personal attack on you. He just broke down what you said and responded in what I think was a very well thought out and logical manner.

[4570FAN]

In the past 10 years I have had: 12ga Topper, .45-70 Handi, 7x57 Handi, .308 Handi, .223 Ultra, .204 Ultra, and now a Buffalo Classic. With the exception of the BC, I have sold every one of them. Not because they were bad guns, but because someone offered me more for the gun & scope that was on it, than what I had into it. Especially after you consider I shot several thousand rounds through them. My only complaint is that you "have" to send the action to the factory to get another barrel. But I guess that is what you get for the $. I don't plan to ever get rid of the BC, but I bet I'll end up with more H&Rs someday.  

[Swampman]

"Has anyone out there bought this rifle, taken it to the range and had "great" groups right out of the box"

All of mine have shot great groups right out of the box.  You can clean them if you wish.  I see little need for anything beyond a yearly light bore cleaning, and an oily patch over the outside metal.   Breaking in a rifle is crap IMO.  I just shoot mine.

I do avoid Handis in certain calibers.  They have a bad rep.

You can buy a new Handi Rifle for the price of a T/C barrel.  The Handis are much better looking than the Encore.

I believe most Handi Rifle problems are caused by the owners of the gun.

[prairiedog555]

I will say that without the help and advise that I got on this forum I would not be recommending a Handi to anyone.  I was not happy with it out of the box.  But I am now and have ordered 4 more barrels.  It was not hard to make improvements. 
 

If NEF was smart they would put a flier and this forum contact info in every box. 

[PHATINJUN]

Phil you have spent way to much time on other forums and you appear to type to that effect... GBO is unlike other forums out there and I would like to ask you to read GBO's rules and advice before you go much further as you may actually have some thing to contribute to this community but you may not last long enough to find out if you don't read those first and it's much more fun to say welcome aboard than it is to say CYA. Kurt

[Pharmboy]

I got an Idea,
We should  have a vote to see whether we want PhilTx to get a Handi. If the vote is "yes" then we can pitch in and buy him one and if we vote "no" then maybe he will go to the TC Forum  and ask those guys the same question about TC'S or any other forum for that matter.

They is what they is. Love em of leave em. You get out of them what you put in em. You get what you pay for etc. etc

Mac: Your the MAN

Pharmboy

[Fazak]

They're fun.

They don't cost much.

[bigjeepman]

Mac ... thank you for being so very analytical of the original post by PhilTx. You addressed every detail with superb expertise in such a manner that I do not believe it can be improved upon. So, I'll just say ... you're awesome !!!!!

bjm