Author Topic: Seemingly dreadful tip on tumbling cases (Read 2142 times)

Questor · « **on:** October 31, 2007, 09:59:23 AM »

After all this rigmarole, I think you may as well just tumble them and be done with it, but here is the tip I found at Chuck Hawks:

Here is a tip for Guns and Shooting Online readers who want to clean their brass but don't have a tumbler.

First, wash your cases with a solution of three parts water and one part toilet cleaning liquid. Put this in a plastic container, dump in the cases to be cleaned, and slosh it around for about three to five minutes. Then dump out the cases and rinse them well. Dry thoroughly.

The final step is to get a cotton pillow cover. Put a few pounds of corncob and polisher into the pillow cover. After washing and drying your cases, put them into the pillow cover and zip it closed or make a knot, leaving about 1/4 empty space.

Then put the filled pillow cover into a clothes dryer. Set the dryer for minimum heat (or none) and let it run for about 45 minutes. When you remove your brass it will have been cleaned and polished without a tumbler.

PartsMan · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2007, 10:34:20 AM »

I would have to hide all my guns first.
My wife would shoot me if I ran brass in her new drier.

Old English · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:38:23 PM »

I read about one guy who puts his brass through the dishwasher. It sounds like a neat idea and I'll give it a go. Essentially as long as the brass isn't dirty, does it really matter how shiny it is?

corbanzo · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2007, 05:49:16 PM »

I once did that just to dry it. We have a rack in our dryer for shoes, so it contacts the front and back and not the drum, so it doesn't spin. After washing, put the brass in the pillow case, set it for medium heat, and let it heat up and dry the cases. Worked pretty fast.

corbanzo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2007, 05:54:14 PM »

Rednek case tumbler:

One pillow case with brass and cleaner media.

One old tire.

One large hill.

You do the math.

Questor · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2007, 01:37:09 AM »

These techniques that use dryers and dishwashers have a rather bad flaw. They put lead into your clothes and food.

Most of the lead we come into contact with as shooters is the residue on spent cases. The amount of lead you can ingest from spent cases is alarming and we need to take it seriously.

For example, one of the guys I shoot with had one bad habit concerning lead: At the range he picked up his spent brass, and also used a pencil to record his scores. He then put the pencil between his lips while mounting a new target. That habit was enough to give him a high level of lead in his system according to a lead test.

A little bit of lead goes a long way, so don't put it in places like dish washers, ovens, dryers, washing machines, and the like.

The soot from primers has a lot of lead in it.

HL · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2007, 01:58:49 AM »

Quester,

That is one of the biggest Urban Myths there are, regarding getting lead from pencils.

You can EAT a pencil and not get lead in your system, because pencils DO NOT HAVE LEAD!

They are made of graphite, which is carbon. Carbon is the basic make-up of all life forms and does not harm you in any way.

I've heard this all my life and it still makes me laugh when I hear people talking about getting lead poisoning from pencils. Unless he snacks on cast bullets or handles a lot of lead for casting, I don't see where he can get lead from spent bullets either, since there is no lead, as far as I know, in gun powder.

You need to have his lead test check for other areas than spent casings and having a pencil between his lips.

DDelle338 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2007, 02:01:38 AM »

I converted an old ice cream maker. I just got a piece of thick (3/16") rubber and cut two 1" wide strips for paddles, and two pieces that would cover the inside of the drum between the paddles then glued them all inside the drum so that it was lined with rubber with the two paddles 180 degrees apart. Tape over the hole in the lid where the ice cream paddle used to come through and you are ready. I just put the walnut shell and brass in, tape the lid to prevent leakage, and put it all together. Lay it on its side while it's running.
Some day I may buy a "real' tumbler. But this works well enough for me for now.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2007, 02:34:27 AM »

HL,

The pencil didn't cause the high lead level since, as you said it doesn't contain any lead despite the name of the graphite inside it. It was the fact that he handled his fired brass and picked up lead on his fingers which transferred some to the pencil which he put in his mouth. It was the lead on his fingers that caused the high lead in his body, not the pencil itself. He would have had even higher levels if he ate sandwiches after handling the cases without washing his hands.

I would expect that he was shooting lead bullets to get any amount of lead on his fingers, since jacketed bullets (except for FMJ's) don't have any lead exposed on their bases to get transferred to the cases.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2007, 02:44:08 AM »

A word to the wise: use TWO pillow slips. one inside of the other. In case one develops a tear. Back in the dark ages, before tumblers, I used to clean my brass with rice in a pillow slip in my wife's clothes dryer. Rice is very hard to clean out of a clothes dryer. I would imagine corn cob media would be too.

Old English · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2007, 03:23:38 AM »

Beeman, you just made my day!!! I can picture the whole sorry episode!!! That's funny right there!

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2007, 03:41:38 AM »

HL and Woodchukhntr:

It's actually a little more complicated than that. The lead is from primer soot, not from the pencil itself. He does indeed shoot cast bullets, but that's only part of the lead problem.

Handling spent cases is a serious lead threat and we need to be careful with it.

Washing your hands with GoJo with Pumice is a good precaution for getting the lead off your hands after a shooting session.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2007, 05:44:26 AM »

Questor,

Thanks for the heads-up on the primer soot. I forgot that the priming compound is lead styphnate, so all fired cases are contaminated with lead.

jgalar · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2007, 04:57:15 AM »

You can pick up a tumbler for around $30 so why bother....

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=587176&t=11082005

beemanbeme · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2007, 07:30:09 AM »

Does anyone have any numbers to support these alerts? To me they're kinda like the treated wood hysteria. Since I was a little kid, picnic tables were made out of treated wood. Folks ate off of them, etc, etc, etc. You get a couple of chicken littles on Oprah and suddenly you can't have treated wood any longer. It has arsenic in it.
I understand that indoor ranges use a system of fans and often require the use of fully jacketed bullets (fmj??) but just how much primer salts (lead) would a fellow get on his hands from handling the OUTSIDE of a fired case? Think of the sequence of events from pin fall to projectile movement before you answer. How would primer salts get on the outside of the fired case?
I've been shooting since I was a little kid and reloading since I was in my 20's and if someone ought to be dead from lead poisoning it'd be me. Unless someone can come up with some hard numbers that shooting or reloading poses a real and significant danger, I'm gonna write this off as just another end run by the gun grabbers. Scare tactics and misinformation: "Oh, little Johnny, you don't want to reload. Folks are dropping like flys from lead poisoning. They ought to outlaw those nasty, old primers." They can't outlaw guns so they go thru the backdoor by making it as hard as possible to get components. Like the BS in Calif about you can't use a lead bullet 'cause a condor might eat your gut pile.

Questor · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2007, 07:37:33 AM »

beemanbeme:

Lead exposure and consequent ill effects is a real problem with military and police range officers. It's not some kind of joke or conspiracy theory. Any numbers you need can be found by getting a lead test at your clinic. The numbers will either be good or bad, depending on your exposure.

Questor · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2007, 07:43:10 AM »

beemanbeme:

By the way, my interest in this is based on the ineffectiveness of ventilation systems I witness at the five indoor ranges I have used in my major metropolitan area. These are all modern ranges, with most made by Caswell. I can go to any of them and shoot for an hour, blow my nose afterward, and there will be soot in the mucous. At that observation I got concerned for my health because I know that if I am getting soot that contains lead in my nasal mucous, I am also getting molecular lead in gas form in my lungs. I use a respirator or a N100 rated dust mask at indoor ranges now and I believe it is a necessary precaution.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2007, 07:58:36 AM »

TOILET CLEANING LIQUID ?
That's some really strong stuff , maybe it would etch the brass , maybe on the inside where it mixes with other spent chemicals from firring . Maybe where you don't see . Maybe I'll just skip that part .

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2007, 09:35:11 AM »

A buddy of mine used a 5 gallon bucket of carb cleaner for quite a while. Just throw your cases in the basket, swish around a little and let it set. After an hour or so, pull out the basket, drain and drop the whole thing in a sink filled with Dawn and hot water.(oh yeah, this works best if its not the kitchen sink! Some one already mentioned getting shot by their wife,this is a garuntee here!) Swish em around a bit and dump them out on a cookie tray. Stick em in the oven on low temp for an our and they're done. All bright and purdy!

HWD

I perfer just dumping in my tumbler that been working for about twenty years now!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #19 on:** November 03, 2007, 05:36:18 AM »

Quote from: Questor on November 02, 2007, 07:43:10 AM

... I can go to any of them and shoot for an hour, blow my nose afterward, and there will be soot in the mucous. At that observation I got concerned for my health because I know that if I am getting soot that contains lead in my nasal mucous, I am also getting molecular lead in gas form in my lungs. I use a respirator or a N100 rated dust mask at indoor ranges now and I believe it is a necessary precaution.

Lead is just one reason I don't care for indoor ranges. Haven't been to one in years.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #20 on:** November 03, 2007, 05:41:23 AM »

Back to the original topic of this thread – tumbling cases without a tumbler. Thanks, but “No thanks”.

Tumblers are not that expensive. When it comes to cost, guys that smoke or spend Friday and/or Saturday night at the bars have no excuse not to buy one. I suspect the guys that smoke aren’t much concerned about lead poisoning, though.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #21 on:** November 03, 2007, 06:13:46 AM »

Quester, not making a smart assed remark at all but have your had your snot analyzed? If you do indeed find lead in your snot, what it really means is that your snot is doing its job and protecting your lungs. But then, you have the question, did you in fact get the lead from the shooting range or from some other source? Isn't that a blind conjecture on your part? Have your had the air at the shooting range analyed? What facts do you have that the ventilation system is ineffective? Doesn't the health department monitor these type places? The EPA? I would imagine that any person living in say NYC could, at the end of the day, blow their nose and find discolouration.
I have no experience with indoors ranges having never used one. I would imagine that a unventilated room full of folks blazing away with cast bullets could be hazardous but in the same room with overhead fans which draw away fumes and the shooters using fully jacketed bullets, any lead gases in the air would have to be minute. I don't know what percentage of the primer is actually lead but its got to be small. Other than me, and I don't too often push beans up my nose, I have known two shariff's deputies in Memphis that had spent their entire time at a public rifle range --one of them reitred while I was there-- and they seemed pretty normal to me. This range was outdoors.
Perhaps the real answer is for you to avoid indoor ranges.
I think you will have to agree that a great deal of the "facts" touted on Oprah and Dr Phil's show are from outcome driven and grant perpetuating research.
We never did answer my question about how does primer salts get on the outside of a fired case?

mdi · « **Reply #22 on:** November 03, 2007, 06:22:19 AM »

Being on a very tight reloading budget, I purchased my tumbler from Harbor Freight (www.harborfreight.com). I got a "Rock Tumbler" that holds about 100 .44 Mag. cases for $19.00. I stopped by a large pet store and bought some Lizard bedding (walnut shells) in a 10lb bag for less than $11.00. I put a "dollup" of Turtle Wax Cream Auto Wax in my mix just to see what would happen and the brass came out shiny and slightly slick feeling. Although it would be fun to try some of the "home brew" methods I manage to get good clean brass done cheaply.

Mike

Don Fischer · « **Reply #23 on:** November 03, 2007, 07:20:39 AM »

Amazing. All the crap we dump into the water systems and the air. We wash our hands after going to the bathroom, just before going outside and picking up some rock every animal for 10 mi around has crapped on. We drink good water out of plastic bottles we get at the store that have been coughed on by everybody with with every disease known to man. We wash our eating utinsels then throw them in a drawer for the mice to walk on, ect, ect, ect. And now we're worried about getting lead poisoning from primer residue on rifle cases! Kinda like the guy that likes oral sex but needs a condom for the real thing! Didn't someone say something about chicken little?

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #24 on:** November 03, 2007, 12:16:16 PM »

A good thread, the car wax is real, its what I use.
Jim

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #25 on:** November 03, 2007, 02:54:17 PM »

Quote from: Don Fischer on November 03, 2007, 07:20:39 AM

Amazing. All the crap we dump into the water systems and the air. We wash our hands after going to the bathroom, just before going outside and picking up some rock every animal for 10 mi around has crapped on. We drink good water out of plastic bottles we get at the store that have been coughed on by everybody with with every disease known to man. We wash our eating utinsels then throw them in a drawer for the mice to walk on, ect, ect, ect. And now we're worried about getting lead poisoning from primer residue on rifle cases! Kinda like the guy that likes oral sex but needs a condom for the real thing! Didn't someone say something about chicken little?

Not really the same thing at all in my book.

I don’t eat at buffets and don’t lick the plastic bottles I drink from. I don’t suck on rocks I find outside, nor do I lick my fingers after handling them (never mind that oxygen and sunshine are pretty good at killing bacteria). Mice don’t spend much time in our silverware drawers because there is no food there and we trap the very few that come into the house. My wife is recovering from leukemia and has the defenses of a newborn. We thought we were pretty clean before, now we are even more careful. Healthy people have developed resistance to many of the bugs they encounter..

But the human body has no defense against heavy metals and their effect is cumulative. Airborne lead is a real problem that shooting ranges have to deal with.

Questor · « **Reply #26 on:** November 04, 2007, 04:27:59 AM »

Beemanbeme:

I haven't had my own snot analyzed, but the snot of enough others has. The results are conclusive and unambiguous. It contains lead dust, and it is inefficient enough of a barrier to permit lead to pass to the blood. There are two ways in which lead enters the body at shooting ranges: dust from bullets and gaseous lead compounds from primer smoke.

bub524 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 04, 2007, 04:42:41 AM »

I think most of you guys miss the main point. If there is a problem does lead poisoning even enter into it? In my house if I do the dryer thing and there is a problem, i.e., the pillow case leaks, then lead doesn't enter the equation cause I won't be alive to die from it. Can you imagine the level of irritation 1-2 pounds of corn cob or crushed walnuts in a hot dryer can cause? It would seriously ruin your day. Buy the tumbler, even if you catch heck for doing. Its nothing like the storm that would come your way if the pillow case breaks.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #28 on:** November 04, 2007, 05:02:57 AM »

If this is conclusive, why haven't the shooting ranges been shut down? I'm sure the gun grabbers are slobbering over any excuse to do just that. Also, how new is your data? Was it taken after the guide lines for indoor ranges were set up?
As I said, I am not familiar with indoor ranges but for the sake of argument, I understand that you have to use fully jacketed bullets now --a friend of mine in Tulsa shoot often at a indoor range-- so that takes care of the bullets; I don't know what percentage of the primer compound is lead but it has to be a small part and the total amount of primer compound in a primer isn't that great so one questions just how much time would you have to spend at a indoors range and how much shooting would you have to do for it to be a health problem.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #29 on:** November 04, 2007, 06:11:27 AM »

i dont think that it can be said that if it were dangerous they couldnt allow it at a range. Look at your everyday life and look at whats allowed the dangerous. Look at the polution levels in the citys ect. There not doing much to stop that. You can say what you want about lead poisoning. I probably would have agreed with you 10 years ago but im proof positive it at least has a possiblitiy of happening to you dealing with lead and shooting. It certainly warants not being dumb about it. drying something in your dryer that even possibly might have lead in it and then drying your childrens clothes in the same machine is just plain stupid. You can probably get a used one for free off the side of the road or cheaply at a garage sale hook it up and disconect the heating elments as its not needed and youd probably save money in the long run. A little common sense goes along way. I about bet a threres at least one guy on here that will push his 2 dollars worth of tumbling media right to the point its not even working and then go pick some more up in a 30000 dollar truck.