1894 44mag- poor accuracy: wrong sites or wrong load

[jmm1245]

I just bought a 1894 44 from a "divorce" sale. The seller showed me the receipt when he bought it and it had been shot about 10 times.

The first thing i did was put  XS ghost ring set up on the gun. It shoots 44 spl's in one hole at 50 yards. Full load 44 mags shoot about 3" on 3 shot groups. I can't tell why I get that spread but it's there. I had some hand loads but the factory loads performed the same way.

 I went out to 100 yards just to see what would happen. I was shooting factory 240gr jhp (American Eagle) and was lucky to have 3 shot in  7". Now some may say operator error,and maybe your right, but I shoot a lot of  other rifles with a peep  at 100-200 yrds and typically have the three shots touching.

Any input out there would be nice. I like the idea of hunting deer with the 44 1894 but if i can't get the groups down to about 2" off a steady rest,Ii may have to limit any shot to 50 yds, or change sites. Possibly a Williams peep?


jmm1245

[Graybeard]

Since your groups with the .44 Special were fine I don't think you should blame the sights or for that matter the shooter. You just need to find a .44 Magnum load it likes and clearly what you've used so far is NOT what it likes.

[Rangr44]

+2

[Mikey]

I'll go X3 with Graybeard and Rangr44 but I wonder if your ghost ring isn't 'ghosting out' at 100 m.  It sure sounds effective at 50 but out beyond that they don't work as well for me.  Peep sights I can hit with at 100 but there is too much 'play' for me in the larger rear apertures for me to be as effective as with a peep. 

Something else to consider is that if you get 3" groups at 50 you're gonna get 6" or larger groups at 100 with the ammo you're using.  Handloads may have to be specific to that rifle, if it wears a microgroove barrel but it sounds like they performed as well as the jacketed ammo.  It sure doesn't sound like it's either the shooter or the rifle but I think I would try another brand of ammo and some different handloads.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Bitterroot Bob]

Howdy,
Ditto what they said. I just spent a frustrating summer trying to dial in a Marlin 1894 in .41 Magnum. After delivering shotgun patterns at 25 yards, Marlin said to send it in and they'd look at it. After I got it back, there was no difference. Tim Looney, head Marlin Tech, alluded to the fact that their barrels ran slightly over standard groove diameter, and I should shoot factory ammo as it was "hotter" that what I was using. He went on to infer that I didn't know how to assemble a proper handload and Marlin wouldn't be responsible for my poor results, and that they'd buy it back if I wanted to ship it back with the receipt.
That conversation pissed me off. I decided that, since they were going to take it back, I'd try some cartridges loaded to the utter maximum. If it broke, so what? That did the trick. The rifle shoots one-hole groups at fifty yards using the highest published charge of 2400 I could find.
Try using bullets at least .431" or even .432" in diameter. If using jacketed bullets, rock them hard! Use 2400 or H110 and swell them into the rifling with a maximum charge. It worked for me.

Good luck,
Bitterroot Bob

[Lloyd Smale]

probably a combination of mostly your load and partialy your sights. My old eyes wont allow for one inch 100 yard shooting with a peep sight anymore no matter what the load. A smalller apature helps but doesnt cure the problem. I shoot my lever guns with peeps for groups at a 50 yards. If they shoot into 2 inches there there going to be minute of deer at a 100 and thats all i look for in an open sighted lever gun anyway. Ive got ghost rings on a few guns and it is tough for me to shoot them at long range. They sure work well in the tight brush though.

[jmm1245]

thank you for all the support. It is very frustrating, but part of the fun, to find the right load.

I'm using 13.5g of Power Pistol with 240g moly swc now. Shoots well from the 4-5/8" SBH but not in the 1894.

I've read just about every post here for more info on working up a load. It looks like H-110 and 240g to 265g wins the contest.
How do you folks work up a load? do you buy 500-1000  of a particular weight projectile and work on the powder charge weight? or do you buy 50-100  240's and 265's, work one powder charge and see what weight projectile it likes.
I like the price of the solids, how do the perform on deer/bear size animals?

Thanks again for all the info.

** my 1894 has Ballard rifling, i understand that makes a difference **

[Nobade]

My Browning 92 has a similar problem, and it comes from an oversize barrel (.433 groove dia) and a really slow twist rate. Just like the Marlin. It'll shoot 200gr. bullets well at slow speeds if they are big enough, but heavier bullets won't stabilize at slow speed. I just bought a Ranch Dog 265gr. mould, which casts out at .433. Again, slow speeds give me nice bullet profiles on a 50 yard target and one foot groups. But loaded over a large amount of H110, it's a tack driver. No problem hitting an 8 inch gong at 200M most of the time, and 50 yard groups have them all touching. Finally, the thing is usable and should make a nice deer rifle! So if you're a caster, try one of his moulds and see how that works.

[Mikey]

jmm1245:  Ballard Rifling is a plus and you may have a ball finding just exactly the perfect load for it.  I have a lot fo fun reloading my stuff and know pretty much which one of my firearms prefers which particular load. 

When I start working up loads I start with published data and on line powder manufacturer's recommendations.  I have also found that other data, often published in articles in different mags. It is pretty good and some shoot just right in my firearms.  I start about 1 gn below recommended and work 5. gn at a time.  10 -15 shots usually tells me what might work, or not.  Then maybe on to another powder but if the published or recommended load doesn't work for me then I don't have a lot of excess hanging around. 

When I want to use different bullets (cast or jacketed) or different bullet styles, I try and order about 100 (of whatever) at a time.  I still have partial boxes of bullets leftover from different accuracy trials but there's nothing worse than having 450 slugs and 40 loaded rounds with bullets that won't shoot for you when you order 500 or so.  Once you have found the right load for that rifle then stock up on your stuff and have a ball.

Some distributors may have offerings in different diameters and you may have to go over bore, so to speak, to find the right slug.  Have you slugged your barrel yet?  It might save you a lot of time and $ if you find it's a .433 like Nobade's Browing, then you know where to start.  HTH.  Mikey.

[big medicine]

I have worked up several loads for the 1894 44 Mag and have found that the two best powders for me have been AA#9 and IMR 4227. Doesn't matter if I shoot the Hornady 240 XTP or the Mag Tech 240 JFP those two powders have always shot the best.

[fornra]

 Since I moved my reloading into a dedicated out building, I can't say for sure but I think Hornady sizes their 44 cal bullets at .430 while RCBS uses a .429 dia. Now this is jacketed bullets I'm referring to.
 The Beartooth Bullets co. offer several choices in dia for their bullets so you can match them to your barrel, but these are hard cast which many people prefer anyway.
 By the way 3-4" is about as good as I get with receiver sights on a good day, at 100 yds, but I like them better than a scope.

[Bitterroot Bob]

Back again,
If I might add one more thing: Pistol powders don't work in my .41 rifle. With maximum loads using Unique and Blue Dot, my .41 Mag Blackhawk will shoot rings around the Marlin using the same ammo. The difference in  performance between Blue Dot and 2400, according to the manual, is almost non-existent. My experience is that the flake powders just don't work in a 20" barrel that lacks the barrel/cylinder gap.
That's the part that really puzzled me and fueled my ire at Tim Looney. Why the tight groups with the revolver  and a total lack of accuracy with the rifle? I had proof that I had good handloads. There is something about making the transition to the long barrel that disqualifies pistol powders in rifles.
Sometimes I wonder if Reloder7 would work in a 357, 41, or .44 Magnum rifle.


Bitterroot

[daddywpb]

I have a Williams Foolproof rear and Firesight front on mine. Groups about 2" @ 100 yards if I'm shooting well that day. Around here, brush is usually so thick that 100 yard shots are not common. Here's the load I came up with if you're interested:

Speer 270 grain Gold Dot soft point
19.8 grains of WW 296
Velocity about 1500 fps.

It's a mid range load, but it shoots well.