Now that deer season's over

[Joel]

I need to go back ta figuring out how ta get those 350 gr cast bullet I ordered to shoot less than 2 foot groups at 50 yds.  Ordered some of PENNBULLETS 350 gr FPBB during the summer an' finally got them in October.  Lucky I also had my usual 300 gr Sierra's laying around 'cause I couldn't get those bullets ta shoot for schmidt!  Wanted to get a velocity of around 1750-1850 out of them.  Couldn't find any loads for that weight cast anywhere on the usual places on the web, so I took the guy who casted them's word as gospel that I'd get anywhere from 100-125 fps more velocity from them when using jacketed bullet loads.  Used the data from my Hornady #4 for their 350 jacketed loads, adjusting for the supposed increased velocity I'd get with the cast.  The only powder I had available at the time was the usual IMR4198 I've always used with the 300 gr jacketed. Tried loads ranging from 42-45 grs an' had a hard time even hitting the target at 50 yds.  Durned things went all over the place, with no particular pattern.  Had never loaded cast lead before, but did some studying on it(apparently not enough) an' was real careful to get a good case mouth bell on them an' to load the bullet into the case real slow like.
Varied the seating depth from SAAMI COL to just kissing the rifling.  Nuthin' worked.  Wasn't any sign of excessive leading in the bore.  Been starting ta think that maybe 4198 just isn't a good powder for this weight cast(wrong pressure curve or somthin').  Maybe 3031 or 4895?  Anyone shed any light on this?  Realize every rifle's different.  Wet birds in tha mountain's make nice ice sculptures.

[Graybeard]

Whut yew mean deer season is over? How'd dat happen? Supposed ta run til da end uv January here in Bama. Did da Guvner close it? Dang democrap guvner.  

Whut kinda rifle gun yew using Joel? Yeah I prolly should remember but with the case uv CRS I've got I'm lucky iffen I remember why I'm in da room I'm in. Could be yore gun jist don't like that bullet weight. That Browning BPCR I had threw 300s all over the hill side. Didn't do a lot better with 400s. By the time ya got to about 430 it calmed down and started doing right but it fairly loved those 500 and over bullets.

Also I've never had any luck getting a bevel based bullet to shoot in anything. Jist about give up trying.

Tell us more and we'll try ta hep but dang it don't be a telling us hunting season is over when it jist has barely got started.

GB

[Joel]

Sorry.  Forgot y'all do things more leisurely down there.  I imagine by the time y'all realize the season's started, have a few snorts an' discuss the implications in considerable detail, find yore riflegun, spend awhile tryin' ta remember if you sighted in, then mosey out ta yore stands, or fall in the swamp, an' try ta remember what a deers looks like(seems like someone had trouble with that part last year), takes about a month.  Up here in these cold mountains, we quick, man.  Get in there, shoot the dang thing(s), get home where its warm.  Actually, season up here's not done till Saturday.  I got done last Saturday, an' that's what I meant.  Do remember when I was down in Virginia, the season lasted till January 6th back then.  However, we got so many rabbit and squirrel around here that folks are stepping on 'em, and that opens back up shortly.  An' they are tasty.
We do have a #!!!#%! Democrap Governor now(who tried to implement gun confiscatin when he was Mayor of Philadelphia). Only the counties that are/surround Pittsburh and Philadelephia voted for the SOB, but hell that's 90% of the population of
PA.  Anyway the rifle's my NEF, no throat at all, pretty steep bevel where the rifling starts.  Maybe I will try a flat base, the bullet I'm  trying to use was designed for Cowboy.

[Graybeard]

Down heah in Bamer it don't make no matter sum atall when ya shoots a deer as fur as ya season goes. Heck fer half da state it don't ebben matter fur yore day. Ya jist keep on a huntin. In hald da state limit is two deers per day wid no moren one being a buck. Rest uv us git it dat way frum bout 7 to 46 days. Me I have 31 uv dem kinda days.

So heah ya drop one and wait onna nurther un and drop it fore ya go home fer da day. Course bout half dez rednecks don't worry bout stuff lak dat and jist keep on shootin til dey don't seez no more.

Don't know much bout them dar rifleguns lak you got. Do know I shore don't have much luck with BB bullets. Try flat base or better yet gas checked. Iffen that don't do it then yer rifling twist rate jist ain't cutting it. By the by I lak IMR3031 fer mah .45-70 loads.

GB

[WLB]

:-) I may have missed something here Joel but what caliber is your NEF?  I kind of assume from Graybeards comments that it is a 45-70.
Bill

[Joel]

Yeah, it is.

Wet birds is another name for catfood.

[WLB]

:-) Joel, I have had very good results in both my NEF and my C Sharps using a load of 24 grains of 2400 powder with a 1 grain tuft of holofil insulation (available at most any fabric store) tamped down on the powder to keep it over the primer.  This load in my NEF, using bullets over 500 grains (Lyman 462560 mostly) has produced several under 1 inch groups at 100 yards.  
Since I only shoot paper and steel with these guns I don't even put the bullet in the case.  I took a 45-70 case, chucked it in my lathe, and bored the back out until it is basically a tube.  To load I insert this case in my chamber and, using a dowel rod turned just under bullet diameter, I push the bullet through the case and into the rifling until the forepart is totally in the rifling.  I then remove the dowel and bored out case and insert my primed and charged case in behind the bullet, close the action and am ready to fire.  It sounds complicated but it really just takes a few seconds.  Cases last forever since they are never resized, belled, or crimped.  
My experience of accuracy versus bullet weight has been the same as Graybeard's; accuracy begins at 500 grains and another 25 or 50 makes it better.  Hope this helps.
Bill

[Joel]

:grin: Kinda interesting how you do that.  I've heard(read) of the old time shuetzen style matches where it seems they'd load a charged case, an' then load the bullet muzzle loader style.  Used false muzzles, an all that.  Don't think I ever heard of it being done from the rear like that.  Probbly fast once you're used ta it, and fun to do on top of it, but the last two years I've gotten a buck and a doe within about 30 seconds of each other, an suspect when it's -2 degress, I'd tend to fumble around some.  Be interesting ta try at the range though.  Don't know what I'm going ta try next.  Like to stick with lead, 'cause it just "looks" right in that case.  Might jest have to go searchin' on the web at the cast sites an' see what's out there.  I've a box of 300 grain cast done by a local caster of good repute, but never liked the size of the metplat after I thought about it, so never tried them.  I'll come up with somethin' tho.  You shootin' a standard NEF or a BC?

Wet bird contests are real popular in tha better drinkin' establishments.

[TexasMac]

Joel, I've shot several versions and weights of cast at the veocities you mentioned and could not get anything to group until I tried overpowder wads and then finally gaschecks.  These were shot both in a lever action Marlin and in a single-shot Browning.  I was getting 8"/10" and even 14" groups, which dropped to around 4" with tablet backing wads.  Copper gaschecks dropped the groups down to 2" or under at 100 yds.  At those velocities you are likely getting a lot of gas cutting and/or damaging the base.
Wayne

[WLB]

:-) Joel, my 45-70 NEF is the standard rifle.  I started experimenting with breech seating bullets after reading about James Welsh's record setting 10 shot cast bullet group in the NRA's book, CAST BULLETS, supplement 1.  His 200 yard 10 shot group measured  .521 inches.  
Bill

[Joel]

Appreciate everyone's good advice.  Have to keep it all in mind when I try this again. :grin: