The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!

[longwinters]

This argument/discussion never seems to end.  Some think that pretty much any bullet will do, for deer, and others think that only the "super premium" can work.  My boys and i have shot BT's for years.  Never lost a deer or antelope with them.  In fact never had a deer or antelope go more than 50 yds.  Shot them out of several calibers and different weight bullets. 

In our experience the 120's out of a 7m-08 did great.  The 150's out of a 30-06 and a 7mm made really big holes.  We never lost meat because we took behind the shoulder shots.

So, although I would tell anybody to have confidence in them I would also say, from our experience, keep the velocity under 2800 and except for the 120 gn (which according to Nosler does have a heavier jacket) shoot a heavier for caliber bullet.

To make things simple I shoot Accubonds and Partitions.  But if you read enough you will find that they are not acceptable either . . . go figure.

Long

[nomosendero]

Ah, the 308 that did the multiple exit thing, what weight was it?

[drdougrx]

Hey Long.

You are so right...the argument won't go away.  I went to the Nosler company forum and there was alot of misgivings and praise for the BT and the accubond.  I'm confused.  They all seem to work for me.  Only the 243 is has given me pause.  But for the record....I'm going to shoot accubonds just because...I don't know...they shoot every bit as good as BTs...they hold together better even though I NEVER had a problem....here I go second guessing again....

[264 WIN MAG]

I'm not one that thinks only premium bullets will work. I use Nosler Partitions in my 270wsm...if you call that premium. In my 270 though I use the cheapest round I can find...150gr. Super X soft point, and they work just fine.

It's just my personal experience that I had just about ever ballistic tip I use fail. Also my family members and friends that have tried them had them fail as well. I have only known one guy who had good luck with them.

[PartsMan]

In my opinion I think they are "okay" rounds if your rifle shoots less than 2800fps, but anything from 2800fps to 3000fps is kind of "iffy" and anything over 3000fps is just going to blow up on impact.

Minimum Impact Velocity: 1600 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity: 3000 fps
From Nosler's web site.

That's how they are made. If you shoot the lightest for caliber out of your magnum rifle it will be over 3000fps and "fail".

[Graybeard]

I think the problem most folks have with the BT is that they can't read or fail to comprehend the intended use of the bullet. For those folks who use single shot specialty handguns it is really THE bullet to use and performs flawlessly at those reduced velocities inherent with the cartridges used especially in the Contender.

For standard rifles especially those on the .308 case but also using the '06 case again it is excellent for deer and smaller size game. Used with heavy for caliber bullets it is fine even for larger game.

But most insist on using the big magnums and then using light for caliber bullets to up the velocity and then wonder why it doesn't stay together and give 100% exits. Duh, read what the factory says it is intended to do and stay within those parameters given and it works beautifully.

Is it the best choice for all situations and cartridges? No for sure it is not but for most non magnum use it is great and even with some magnums if you'll use the heavier bullets it still does fine most of the time. But up close at really high velocity it might disappoint. No surprise there as that's specifically NOT what it's designed for.

[Don Fischer]

Ah, the 308 that did the multiple exit thing, what weight was it?

Hey Nomo,

Your getting ignored pretty well and I haven't said hi for quite a while. Have ya missed me?  Sheesh!

[SHOOTALL]

Has anyone checked with Nosler ?
What is the BT suppose to do ?
i have used them for years in a 2506 and never recovered one to look at ! Is that a bad thing ?
if so i guess i use alot of bad bullets cause 3006 , 7X30 waters , 308 , 12 ga slugs all have been pass thru .

[Todd1700]

It's just my personal experience that I had just about ever ballistic tip I use fail. Also my family members and friends that have tried them had them fail as well. I have only known one guy who had good luck with them

Same here. I only encounter people who love Bt's on the Internet. The only people I encounter who get great penetration from bt's are on the Internet. The only people I encounter that never have them routinely fragment all to hell are on the Internet. However, virtually everybody I know personally that has used them (myself included) has had the exact opposite results and refuse to use them anymore. And I'm not one of these folks that think you need a Barnes x-bullet to kill deer either. A simple cup and core lead tipped bullet like a Hornady  sp will do just fine.

The last of my friends to use a BT shot a doe hunting with me 2 years ago. 30-06, 150 gr ballistic tip, 70 yard broadside shot on about a 100 lb doe. Doe hauled ass at the shot; left no blood trail; and we found her just by fanning out and stomping through the thicket she ran into. She ran about 100 yards and left not one drop of blood on the ground. Why? Because even thought the bullet hit her in the ribs about 4 inches behind her shoulder on a broadside shot the ballistic tip still did not exit the opposite side. For all you on here that love'em, knock yourself out. But a bullet that won't blow through both rib cages of a 100 lb doe is never going into the woods with me again.

[SHOOTALL]

why did he shoot the doe that was hunting with you ?

[Graybeard]

The ONLY place I've ever encountered folks claiming they blow up and fail to perform is on the internet. Everyone I know personally who uses them are perfectly satisfied with performance of the BT. But then maybe it's cuz they know what they are doing and how to use them correctly. Dunno. Strange tho the internet is the only place I can find detractors of them.

[OHHJIMMY]

I have a Remington 700 in 7-08 that I have killed a number of Whitetails with using Winchester ballistic tips. All wounds have been alike. Finger size entry hole, 1 1/2" exit hole, backside 12" area turned to black jelly. I think one of the main keys to success with the ballistic tips is bullet speed. 2800 fps or lower is what works. So, use a magnum for really long shots so they have time to slow down. This is only what it seems like to me, no scientific evidence, so don't beat me up.

[nomosendero]

Ah, the 308 that did the multiple exit thing, what weight was it?

Hey Nomo,

Your getting ignored pretty well and I haven't said hi for quite a while. Have ya missed me?  Sheesh!

I wondered about you some time back & I hope you are doing well.

I know why I am being ignored with this question & I bet you know as well. It is an entertaining thread as I knew it would be.

[Todd1700]

But then maybe it's cuz they know what they are doing and how to use them correctly

Exactly, what is improper about shooting a deer snug behind the shoulder with one? Does Nosler state anywhere that the 150 grain for a 30-06 or a 130 grain for a 270 aren't intended for deer? It's not a problem of me, my family or my friends using them improperly. The only problem we found was that we were using them at all. Live and learn. LOL! Thankfully we have returned to using bullets intended for animals bigger than a groundhog.

I however do agree that for extreme long range shooting or reduced velocity ammo they would be well suited. I don't care what the stated ideal velocity range is I think anything over 2700 fps is too fast for such fragile bullets.

[Graybeard]

But then maybe it's cuz they know what they are doing and how to use them correctly

Exactly, what is improper about shooting a deer snug behind the shoulder with one? Does Nosler state anywhere that the 150 grain for a 30-06 or a 130 grain for a 270 aren't intended for deer? It's not a problem of me, my family or my friends using them improperly. The only problem was that we were using them. Live and learn. LOL! Thankfully we have returned to using bullets intended for animals bigger than a groundhog.

I however do agree that for extreme long range shooting or reduced velocity ammo they would be well suited. I don't care what the stated ideal velocity range is I think anything over 2700 fps is too fast for such fragile bullets.

Nothing is wrong with that. But try using that same 130 in a .270 Wheatherby Magnum and punch it into the bones of the shoulder at 50 yards and something might be wrong with that. Try the Texas Heart Shot and something might be wrong with that.

They are not as tough as most premium bullets are these days and are not intended to be used in magnums belted or fat and with the lightest for caliber bullets and then used at close range into bones like many seem to want to do with them so they can then come here and complain about them "failing".

[smokepolehall]

MPO the Nosler BT is modified HP and will do the job it was built fer. I am not a big fan of HP bullets on big game so i don't use the BT's.

[264 WIN MAG]

Ah, the 308 that did the multiple exit thing, what weight was it?

You were talking to me? I have no idea what weight he was using. If I had to guess I would say 150 probably.

[rickt300]

Way too many people set up rifles for the unusual 400 yard shot and use this load for short range deer hunting. Why not adjust your velocity so you get good bullet performance out to 50 yards further than you would normally shoot. Even when I lived in Wyoming I rarely got a shot past 250 yards and 2700 fps is fine for that using a pointed bullet of medium weight for caliber designed for the game your hunting.

[bajabill]

I just switched to the BTs this year.  I shoot a 30-06, 150gr, about 2900-2950 mv.  I had been using the Hornady 150 sp, simple bullet.  I was not too happy with the exit hole diameter from that bullet - I wasn't convinced I was getting good expansion.  But the deer were falling.  So this year I went with the Noslers.  I took a medium sized deer, 120 yds, front quartering shot. Went just above the front shoulder, into about 3 ribs, and did not exit.  I think it did its job very well (he ran 1 yard down) even though it did not get out thru the back quarter.  I am happy it did not.   Im staying with this bullet another year.

I was leery about the switch, as I saw a 300wsm 150 create an entry and exit on the same side of a reasonably broadside deer - but I never thought he should have used a 150gr B-silvertip with a 300wsm.  That deer was a bang flop, so my friend was satisfied. 

[264 WIN MAG]

It's always easy to be satisfied with a deer drop in it's track even when the bullet doesn't exit. The time when the deer runs off is when you start getting bugged about the non-exit.

I had real bad luck with 120gr. and 140gr. in my 264 (they didn't offer any sizes bigger than that). What I find funny though is that the 270wsm is so popular just like the 300wsm and they only offer these small weight ballistic type bullets for them everywhere I go. The only thing I could find in any store for my 270wsm was a 130gr. ballistic tip. Shot the first deer with it at around 75 yards and he bolted. Took a couple hours, but we did find him. The second time I came across a deer with those rounds it was about a 200 yard shot. I just took the head shot...it did the job excellently.

[NONYA]

Face it guys,these bullets come apart,they STINK!

[rickt300]

Yep, they suck alright. I am heating up some butter right now to cook some backstrap like you do Filet Mignon. I'll have to have a private debate with myself while eating to decide what  horrible downside there is to using frangible bullets on deer that kill quickly and destroy very little meat when properly placed. Yeah this is really going to cause indigestion and lack of sleep.

[drdougrx]

Hey Cole.....welcome back....

I'm with Rick...I'm planning on poorly shot with an unimpressive BT bullet fallow cacciatore for the weekend!!!  Too bad it was killed with a BT, I'm sure it would have tasted better if I'd killed it with a instantaneous killing core lokt.....

Just ragg'n     I'm a BT guy in non-mag cartridges.

[Cheesehead]

I also like the old fashion Ballistic Tip, the Remington Bronze Point. I bought a 1000 pack and have been shooting them in my M1A with good accuracy results and devastating terminal performance on deer. I will be using them this Saturday for WI deer season opener.

Cheese

[nomosendero]

Ah, the 308 that did the multiple exit thing, what weight was it?

You were talking to me? I have no idea what weight he was using. If I had to guess I would say 150 probably.

Yea, I would say so also or a 125.

Thanks

[nomosendero]

Yep, they suck alright. I am heating up some butter right now to cook some backstrap like you do Filet Mignon. I'll have to have a private debate with myself while eating to decide what  horrible downside there is to using frangible bullets on deer that kill quickly and destroy very little meat when properly placed. Yeah this is really going to cause indigestion and lack of sleep.

Shame on you for knowing when & how to use them.

[SHOOTALL]

Sir i suggest you limit your debate to under 2 min. then eat the dinner have a good nights sleep and repeat the process as much as you can !

[billy_56081]

I'm thinking that 90% 0f this ballistic tip/any bullet failure is a failure on the part of the shooter. No less no more than that. Many people are too arrogant to accept the fact that they screwed up and made a bad shot!

[corbanzo]

I personally like the ballistic tip.  BUT.  And that's a big but.  I'm not going to shoot a moose with it.  I'm not going to shoot a caribou with it.  I'm not going to shoot a brown bear with it.  Maybe a black bear.

It is true, that when used for it's perfectly intended use, it's a great bullet... has great accuracy and ballistics.  Sorry my world ain't perfect.

But now, saying it is the shooters fault because they took a shoulder shot, and it blew up on the bone is BS.  If you are going to make a bullet which is to be used on big game, then make is so it will handle ANY shot on big game - even one's through thick shoulders.  If I wanted to take a lung shot, I would use a bow. 

[nomosendero]

I personally like the ballistic tip.  BUT.  And that's a big but.  I'm not going to shoot a moose with it.  I'm not going to shoot a caribou with it.  I'm not going to shoot a brown bear with it.  Maybe a black bear.

It is true, that when used for it's perfectly intended use, it's a great bullet... has great accuracy and ballistics.  Sorry my world ain't perfect.

But now, saying it is the shooters fault because they took a shoulder shot, and it blew up on the bone is BS.  If you are going to make a bullet which is to be used on big game, then make is so it will handle ANY shot on big game - even one's through thick shoulders.  If I wanted to take a lung shot, I would use a bow. 

So then I guess that means that you believe the BT will go through the shoulder of a Deer because you like the bullet. Yes, the right one will matched up with common sense vel.
Nosler never said to use them for Moose, I see no conflict here.